48:[Carrie] the moderated ACIM group

Post by Sidney Lambe
48:[Carrie ] the moderated ACIM group
Good idea. That's where people who can't take criticism of their
pet ideas find refuge. A nice little sheltered lala land where
you can remain a loser forever.
(Although that isn't really possible. We all will evolve someday.
If not in this life, then another.)
Sid

The moderated ACIM group seems to be deserted. With only spam .
People say they want this (moderators and control) but then when they try
and make it work are bored with it.
Though I have known some moderated and heavily controlled/censored groups,
where people are warned via email, and if they try and write about this ON
the group, it's not allowed on. And if they keep trying to write about it,
like maybe it's "unfair", they are banned from the group. And, others on the
group don't realize this, and just go along (making sure they don't do
anything to make waves). I guess they assume if someone (who has been
banned) stops posting, the person just decided to leave.
One of my issues with moderated/censored/controlled groups was most of
the time, others on the board don't know about it. If someone isn't allowed
to write about what is going on (and then after they are banned) there's no
way for others to know it, and the whole story. They might have had opinions
and feelings about it.
But maybe not. Some seem to feel the group (as a whole) and fitting in,
being accepted and THEM not being warned or deleted (shunned) is worth
playing along with the game.
Always seemed kind of boring to me. Pretending to be something one might
not be, just to be liked and accepted and fit in with a group. But, seems to
be somethning a lot (especially with online groups) feels is important
enough to work at.

HappyD

2011-01-17 14:00:11 UTC

It works for China.

David Thomson

2011-01-18 15:21:53 UTC

The moderated ACIM group seems to be deserted. With only spam .
People say they want this (moderators and control) but then when they try
and make it work are bored with it.

When one has to chose between a format between idiot posters and idiot
moderators, the Course can still be applied when everyone still has
access to the board. Whether it is the host of a local ACIM support
group, the speakers at ACIM seminars, the official head of the ACIM
copyright, or the moderator of an online group, where there is
artificial leadership there the ego is, too.

That's why when we setup this newsgroup we put our trust in God
instead of moderators.

Dave

Carrie

2011-01-18 17:19:43 UTC

Post by Carrie
The moderated ACIM group seems to be deserted. With only spam .
People say they want this (moderators and control) but then when
they try and make it work are bored with it.

When one has to chose between a format between idiot posters and idiot
moderators, the Course can still be applied when everyone still has
access to the board. Whether it is the host of a local ACIM support
group, the speakers at ACIM seminars, the official head of the ACIM
copyright, or the moderator of an online group, where there is
artificial leadership there the ego is, too.
That's why when we setup this newsgroup we put our trust in God
instead of moderators.
Dave

Well said. And, maybe someone should/could say this more often.
I've often asked this same thing, especially with ACIM groups. If you
believe in ACIM and "give all things to Him" (Trust Holy Spirit, etc) why
wouldn't this also- maybe ESPECIALLY, apply to the group?
Like the "Raj" group, Raj says he is author of ACIM, and in some posts
he is referred to as "Jesus", yet people were banned from the group (which
is run by Raj/Jesus) for asking questions and pointing out inconsistencies,
that, coming from honesty and openness should have been asked and pointed
out. In one case, when someone was banned, Raj posted a message about it
saying (paraphrased from memory) some people think ACIM says not to see
enemies, and if we do it's our own choice to see this- and we aren't to use
defense, but there really are evil people in the world, out to do us harm
we must defend against.
Of course, if anyone thought "this isn't what ACIM teaches, it clearly
says "defending" is what creates attack, and "which I choose to see I will
behold" they wouldn't be able to ask it, because they would then be
attacked, driven away and/or banned.
In a recent talk (ACIM study group they are called) Raj said the world
needs changing.
I know, overall lesson is, we can't apply ACIM (or anything we believe)
to anyone esle by "myself". If I see anything other than Love, perfection,
"the Face of Christ" etc in someone else, it's coming from ME.
And, we always have a choice in what groups, if any, we want to be part
of. Trying to get along on the moderated groups might even be seen as a
lesson in itself. Whatever seems the most peaceful and what the others seem
to want and need. This always seemed kind of phoney, fake and boring to me.
But, if I have to be something other than what I feel I honestly am, to
be accepted and not banned from a group, why would I want to be part of it.
"Let all things be exactly as they are".
I thinik this newsgroup is wonderful (for learning) and maybe even a
continuation of where the ACIM books left off.

Deborah

2011-01-18 20:00:27 UTC

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 07:21:53 -0800 (PST), David Thomson

The moderated ACIM group seems to be deserted. With only spam .
People say they want this (moderators and control) but then when they try
and make it work are bored with it.

When one has to chose between a format between idiot posters and idiot
moderators, the Course can still be applied when everyone still has
access to the board. Whether it is the host of a local ACIM support
group, the speakers at ACIM seminars, the official head of the ACIM
copyright, or the moderator of an online group, where there is
artificial leadership there the ego is, too.
That's why when we setup this newsgroup we put our trust in God
instead of moderators.
Dave

There was nothing particularly ego oriented about James Hale's
moderation style. He hardly ever stepped in to referee, and he never
banned anyone. At the time you helped create this ng there was no
need for it apart from the fact that many people could not afford the
email charges their ISP levied, if they tried to participate in the
email listserv group, and could not access alt.religion.course-miracle
because their news servers didn't carry it. Just to refresh your
memory some...

You (and we) wanted all course students to have access to online
course discussion.

But did you want a ng that could be (and at one point was) taken over
by a crowd of anti-course voices? Because that's what you've got.
And that's why this ng is so sparsely populated now.

Deborah, (and one of the voters).

Carrie

2011-01-18 21:15:58 UTC

Post by Deborah
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 07:21:53 -0800 (PST), David Thomson

Post by Carrie
The moderated ACIM group seems to be deserted. With only spam .
People say they want this (moderators and control) but then when
they try and make it work are bored with it.

When one has to chose between a format between idiot posters and
idiot moderators, the Course can still be applied when everyone
still has access to the board. Whether it is the host of a local
ACIM support group, the speakers at ACIM seminars, the official head
of the ACIM copyright, or the moderator of an online group, where
there is artificial leadership there the ego is, too.
That's why when we setup this newsgroup we put our trust in God
instead of moderators.
Dave

There was nothing particularly ego oriented about James Hale's
moderation style. He hardly ever stepped in to referee, and he never
banned anyone. At the time you helped create this ng there was no
need for it apart from the fact that many people could not afford the
email charges their ISP levied, if they tried to participate in the
email listserv group, and could not access alt.religion.course-miracle
because their news servers didn't carry it. Just to refresh your
memory some...
You (and we) wanted all course students to have access to online
course discussion.
But did you want a ng that could be (and at one point was) taken over
by a crowd of anti-course voices? Because that's what you've got.
And that's why this ng is so sparsely populated now.
Deborah, (and one of the voters).

I like the idea of everyone having a chance to learn their own lessons,
in their own way and time. Even if it seemed/seems like a group is taken
over by a crowd of anti-course voices, those who were seeing it this way
(and not a call for love, as the course says it is) always had the choice to
ignore it and write to others (like minded) "around" it. It's the giving
attention to it that creates more of it and keeps it there. The world is
full of people we might see as not what we'd want to be part of. Sometimes
we can get away, sometimes we can get them to leave. Sometimes knowing how
to detach from the ego aspects of it and allow them to be, might be good,
too. It's all choices and all lessons. There's also the ebb and flow.
Issues flare up, then die down, and once again we have peace.

eluq

2011-01-19 02:05:15 UTC

Carrie-

Post by Carrie
I like the idea of everyone having a chance to learn their own lessons,
in their own way and time. Even if it seemed/seems like a group is taken
over by a crowd of anti-course voices, those who were seeing it this way
(and not a call for love, as the course says it is) always had the choice to
ignore it and write to others (like minded) "around" it. It's the giving
attention to it that creates more of it and keeps it there. The world is
full of people we might see as not what we'd want to be part of. Sometimes
we can get away, sometimes we can get them to leave. Sometimes knowing how
to detach from the ego aspects of it and allow them to be, might be good,
too. It's all choices and all lessons. There's also the ebb and flow.
Issues flare up, then die down, and once again we have peace.

Jon-
That has been your mantra for years. I think it is level confusion. At
this level, I usually call it form, but it can be called many things, it is
a level that is/was purposefully thought to provide a realm outside of Truth
(and that realm though impossible can be believed) Because that is its only
purpose (a thought outside of Reality) it does not overlap with Reality. So
really there is no "peace" within this thought, it inherently is impossible.
The only way peace can even be approached is the experience of the unreality
of perception.

Within this level it quite possibly is better to have moderators and rules
and regs etc.. Though I accept the truth that the temporal has to be
unreal there is obviously still a belief in it and therefore within its
confines its laws rule --- so I don't run red lights, so I accept gravity,
inertia, time, etc.

The lesson isn't pretending something isn't happening in form - like
anti-course voices interfering in a course group. Form itself must be
denied, not what is going on in form - BECAUSE the choosing in form is the
separate will expressing. Within form we have some capability of
manipulating it to fit a false definition of "peace" or "freedom" or
"choice" but it is all false because it is contained within the separation
idea.

The craziness of form is not really a lesson, it is merely the desire to
express a kingdom outside of Reality. It is the false belief that there
can be a will other than God's. The only lesson is to perceive with
forgiveness, which doesn't condone or condem, it overlooks but not by seeing
it first and then choosing.

Carrie

2011-01-19 03:45:39 UTC

Post by eluq
Carrie-

Post by Carrie
I like the idea of everyone having a chance to learn their own lessons,
in their own way and time. Even if it seemed/seems like a group is
taken over by a crowd of anti-course voices, those who were seeing
it this way (and not a call for love, as the course says it is)
always had the choice to
ignore it and write to others (like minded) "around" it. It's the
giving attention to it that creates more of it and keeps it there.
The world is full of people we might see as not what we'd want to be
part of. Sometimes we can get away, sometimes we can get them to
leave. Sometimes knowing how to detach from the ego aspects of it
and allow them to be, might be good, too. It's all choices and all
lessons. There's also the ebb and flow. Issues flare up, then die
down, and once again we have peace.

This is how you have been perceiving me (and my beliefs) for years.
You think it's level confusion, but that's where you are coming from about
me. You don't really know me, and my beliefs, only your interpretation of
the words you read I have written, and what you choose to make of them.
If this has been my mantra for years, and you don't agree it's right
(or course-related) than you probably should give up on me ever being what
YOU think I should be (to align with what you thinik the course says?) at
this point.
There's one place in the course that says "your brother is as right
as you are". Not sure if it says anywhere we are to judge, decide, point
out faults and where we believe someone else is wrong.
I'm not saying you are wrong in how you see (and have seen) me for
years. It's just how you see me and have seen me. Not right or wrong for
either of us. And how I see you, is how it is for me.

Post by eluq
Within this level it quite possibly is better to have moderators and
rules and regs etc.. Though I accept the truth that the temporal
has to be unreal there is obviously still a belief in it and
therefore within its confines its laws rule --- so I don't run red
lights, so I accept gravity, inertia, time, etc.

Of course, people can and do have moderators and getting along
peacefully (saying what's wanted said and NOT saying what might get one
banned is lessons in itself. Playing the game) Just seems like a lot of the
time a moderator of a group gets into ego, and starts taking sides, and
trying to control what's on the group. Without allowing for a free sharing,
overall. Playing God, with the little lives of the people (and their issues)
on their group. Some people feel a moderated group is safe. Sometimes they
say something the moderator doesn't like, and they find out it's far from
safe. The only safe way (to me) is to leave people alone. I think the
original topic that started this was this newsgroup being started as
unmoderated and "trusting Holy Spirit" to take care of it.
Who can say what is learning and what isn't in what way?

Post by eluq
The lesson isn't pretending something isn't happening in form - like
anti-course voices interfering in a course group. Form itself must be
denied, not what is going on in form - BECAUSE the choosing in form
is the separate will expressing. Within form we have some
capability of manipulating it to fit a false definition of "peace" or
"freedom" or "choice" but it is all false because it is contained
within the separation idea.

Don't you think seeing the craziness (as craziness, and something one
doesn't want)- as a problem and something we DON'T want and then trying to
NOT have it, is kind of counter productive? And, what about when one person
thinks craziness is going on, and another person doesn't? Each person is
seeing it from their own POV.

Post by eluq
The craziness of form is not really a lesson, it is merely the desire
to express a kingdom outside of Reality.

And, thus it really doesn't matter, does it? Why try and control, and be
"right" (making others wrong) and "moderate" something that isn't Real, in
Truth? Why does it matter what happens in the illusion? Only the Love (given
and received- accepted) is Real. And this is always there, even if some
don't seem to be seeing it, or open to it.

It is the false belief

Post by eluq
that there can be a will other than God's.

That was the point David made, about starting this newsgroup and leaving
it up to Holy Spirit. Not have PEOPLE (egos) trying to control it and keep
it a certain way. "Give it to God" and trust.

The only lesson is to

Post by eluq
perceive with forgiveness, which doesn't condone or condem, it
overlooks but not by seeing it first and then choosing.

You seem to have gone in a circle and come back to this, which does
make sense.
I find myself doing this, too. I'll get all off on some topic and
trying to figure it out and by the end of what I write, I come to the
answer. Or back to it.

Deborah

2011-01-20 05:02:41 UTC

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:15:58 -0500, "Carrie"

Post by Carrie
Even if it seemed/seems like a group is taken
over by a crowd of anti-course voices, those who were seeing it this way
(and not a call for love, as the course says it is) always had the choice to
ignore it and write to others (like minded) "around" it.

I have a slightly different recollection of just how easy it was to
"ignore it", since I had to set my filter to delete posts from some
ten or fifteen people who were consciously, deliberately and wilfully
trying to disrupt course discussions here.

And Carrie, the course does not say we are to see things as either
love or a call for love. What it says is that this is how the Holy
Spirit judges. You and I are not the Holy Spirit, and we are not
assigned the role of judging as the Holy Spirit is. What we are asked
to do is suspend judgment altogether, and when you have learned to do
that, do let me know.

As far as I can tell, what you do is strain the judge the way the Holy
Spirit judges, instead of quietly doing nothing (forgiveness) leaving
it to the Holy Spirit to do the judging.

As long as I'm still judging, I'm won't pretend to be doing anything
else.

Deborah

Carrie

2011-01-20 13:12:38 UTC

Post by Deborah
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 16:15:58 -0500, "Carrie"

Post by Carrie
Even if it seemed/seems like a group is taken
over by a crowd of anti-course voices, those who were seeing it this
way (and not a call for love, as the course says it is) always had
the choice to ignore it and write to others (like minded) "around"
it.

So, you resolved it?

Post by Deborah
And Carrie, the course does not say we are to see things as either
love or a call for love. What it says is that this is how the Holy
Spirit judges. You and I are not the Holy Spirit, and we are not
assigned the role of judging as the Holy Spirit is. What we are asked
to do is suspend judgment altogether, and when you have learned to do
that, do let me know.

The way I remember it, we are to ask Holy Spirit for help in all of
this.

Post by Deborah
As far as I can tell, what you do is strain the judge the way the Holy
Spirit judges, instead of quietly doing nothing (forgiveness) leaving
it to the Holy Spirit to do the judging.

And what are you doing?

Post by Deborah
As long as I'm still judging, I'm won't pretend to be doing anything
else.
Deborah

HappyD

2011-01-19 03:20:21 UTC

Post by Deborah
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 07:21:53 -0800 (PST), David Thomson

Post by Carrie
The moderated ACIM group seems to be deserted. With only spam .
People say they want this (moderators and control) but then when they try
and make it work are bored with it.

When one has to chose between a format between idiot posters and idiot
moderators, the Course can still be applied when everyone still has
access to the board. Whether it is the host of a local ACIM support
group, the speakers at ACIM seminars, the official head of the ACIM
copyright, or the moderator of an online group, where there is
artificial leadership there the ego is, too.
That's why when we setup this newsgroup we put our trust in God
instead of moderators.
Dave

There was nothing particularly ego oriented about James Hale's
moderation style. He hardly ever stepped in to referee, and he never
banned anyone. At the time you helped create this ng there was no
need for it apart from the fact that many people could not afford the
email charges their ISP levied, if they tried to participate in the
email listserv group, and could not access alt.religion.course-miracle
because their news servers didn't carry it. Just to refresh your
memory some...
You (and we) wanted all course students to have access to online
course discussion.
But did you want a ng that could be (and at one point was) taken over
by a crowd of anti-course voices? Because that's what you've got.
And that's why this ng is so sparsely populated now.
Deborah, (and one of the voters).

You have to admit some of the crazies where supposed "Course
students".
There where some anti-course'rs but they can just as easily be ignore
if we ever desired. Funny how no troll ever gets shunned here. I feel
that there is nothing stopping any of us from having course discussion
we want anytime we want here.

Carrie

2011-01-19 03:33:46 UTC

Post by Deborah
On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 07:21:53 -0800 (PST), David Thomson

Post by Carrie
The moderated ACIM group seems to be deserted. With only spam .
People say they want this (moderators and control) but then when
they try and make it work are bored with it.

When one has to chose between a format between idiot posters and
idiot moderators, the Course can still be applied when everyone
still has access to the board. Whether it is the host of a local
ACIM support group, the speakers at ACIM seminars, the official
head of the ACIM copyright, or the moderator of an online group,
where there is artificial leadership there the ego is, too.
That's why when we setup this newsgroup we put our trust in God
instead of moderators.
Dave

There was nothing particularly ego oriented about James Hale's
moderation style. He hardly ever stepped in to referee, and he never
banned anyone. At the time you helped create this ng there was no
need for it apart from the fact that many people could not afford the
email charges their ISP levied, if they tried to participate in the
email listserv group, and could not access
alt.religion.course-miracle because their news servers didn't carry
it. Just to refresh your memory some...
You (and we) wanted all course students to have access to online
course discussion.
But did you want a ng that could be (and at one point was) taken over
by a crowd of anti-course voices? Because that's what you've got.
And that's why this ng is so sparsely populated now.
Deborah, (and one of the voters).

Those who don't shun/ignore the (so called) trolls or anti course-ers (if
there could be such a thing, since how someone else is, seems to be is a
reflection of MY thinking about it and them) are possibly drawn to them, to
learn something about themselves in some way.

Aside from that, you are right in saying there's nothing stopping anyone
from having course discussion here. There never was.

But, maybe we WERE having "course discussion" (or maybe learning about
ourselves) even with those we saw as trolls and anti-course-ers?
Who can really say. And who can judge what, if anything, is going on
between people who are communicating in some way? The book says something
like "the course can be taught in any language, or no language". Holy Spirit
can use anything, if we are open to it.
It may sometimes seem like a real challange, even impossible to "see
the Face of Christ" in a brother (who seems to be anything BUT our brother
in Christ) but, that might just be our greatest chance to remember, and
learn.
I sometimes think that those who don't feel good about themselves, and
project this out all over the place, come to an unmoderated ACIM group like
this, looking for love and acceptance. For someone to see something good in
them, even when they can't see it in themselves.
I've heard that Jesus healed because he didn't see sickness (and
problems) so in his presence they couldn't exist. Don't know if anyone who
comes to this newsgroup is at that point, but it might be a goal.
People who come here, even those who lecture others about the course
and how they AREN'T living it, or don't understand it (like they feel they
do) can't feel very good about themselves. And there aren't very many "safe"
(relatively) places to vent and be how one really feels. Seems like an
unmoderated group with "course-miracles" in it's title might be seen as a
safe place. Where they might find love and acceptance.
In an ideal world?

David Thomson

2011-01-19 16:12:21 UTC

Post by Deborah
You (and we) wanted all course students to have access to online
course discussion.
But did you want a ng that could be (and at one point was) taken over
by a crowd of anti-course voices? Because that's what you've got.
And that's why this ng is so sparsely populated now.
Deborah, (and one of the voters).

Many of us who set up this newsgroup were previously members on
CompuServe. That is when Paul (R**) first tried to commandeer the
group. I was the moderator there and had "enemies" coming from both
Paul's camp and also from the holy inquisitors in Roscoe. We were
forced to change the name of the group from ACIM Forum to Miracles
Forum. And then Paul started talking like he was the author of ACIM
and got the Compuserve management on edge thinking he was the owner of
the copyright. Between the two of them, they forced us out into
freedom from moderation on this newsgroup. By giving them both the
complete opportunity to try to control the group, neither of them were
able to do so.

The drama, then, was no different in content than the drama today or
even tomorrow. As long as people keep discovering the Course, and as
long as there are people who try to make a living off of it, there
will be a continuous string of nasty ego battles. Many of the early
players have left this world and many more will come.

For the true student of the Course, the lesson always comes back to
the Holy Instant. Right now.

Who is to say who else is ready to experience the Holy Instant?
Nobody. The Holy Instant is an intensely personal experience. It
cannot truly be taught except by example, although words can help set
the stage for its implementation.

Many people wait until their suffering is unbearable before they are
self-honest enough to practice the Holy Instant. In the meantime,
their ego rebels and they create chaos for others. This, too, is part
of the Course. If you play with fire, you will eventually get
burned. If you play with the Course, you will eventually get saved.

For what it's worth, I think the discussion on this group is a perfect
manifestation of Course dynamics. I see wisdom coming through from
everyone, and it truly reflects the teaching of the Course. My
perception must be correct, because the group is still active after
nearly two decades. This is the oldest continually running ACIM
discussion group on the Internet.

From the perspective Jesus teaches through the Course, the Holy
Instant is like a golden thread weaving in an out of darkness. It is
continuous in Heaven, but appears discontinuous in this world.
Whether we see the continuous thread or the broken thread is our
choice.

Dave

Carrie

2011-01-19 17:03:02 UTC

Many of us who set up this newsgroup were previously members on
CompuServe. That is when Paul (R**) first tried to commandeer the
group. I was the moderator there and had "enemies" coming from both
Paul's camp and also from the holy inquisitors in Roscoe. We were
forced to change the name of the group from ACIM Forum to Miracles
Forum. And then Paul started talking like he was the author of ACIM
and got the Compuserve management on edge thinking he was the owner of
the copyright. Between the two of them, they forced us out into
freedom from moderation on this newsgroup. By giving them both the
complete opportunity to try to control the group, neither of them were
able to do so.
The drama, then, was no different in content than the drama today or
even tomorrow. As long as people keep discovering the Course, and as
long as there are people who try to make a living off of it, there
will be a continuous string of nasty ego battles. Many of the early
players have left this world and many more will come.
For the true student of the Course, the lesson always comes back to
the Holy Instant. Right now.
Who is to say who else is ready to experience the Holy Instant?
Nobody. The Holy Instant is an intensely personal experience. It
cannot truly be taught except by example, although words can help set
the stage for its implementation.
Many people wait until their suffering is unbearable before they are
self-honest enough to practice the Holy Instant. In the meantime,
their ego rebels and they create chaos for others. This, too, is part
of the Course. If you play with fire, you will eventually get
burned. If you play with the Course, you will eventually get saved.
For what it's worth, I think the discussion on this group is a perfect
manifestation of Course dynamics. I see wisdom coming through from
everyone, and it truly reflects the teaching of the Course. My
perception must be correct, because the group is still active after
nearly two decades. This is the oldest continually running ACIM
discussion group on the Internet.
From the perspective Jesus teaches through the Course, the Holy
Instant is like a golden thread weaving in an out of darkness. It is
continuous in Heaven, but appears discontinuous in this world.
Whether we see the continuous thread or the broken thread is our
choice.
Dave

Good points. And, the only way to not let someone "take over" is to just
let them. Not push against them in an ego way. When one person (or more than
one) is set up as "moderator" this sets it up so others (for whatever
reason) tend to push against it. Of course, there are big, active heavily
moderaed groups. But, maybe most of the people, if they haven't experienced
the moderation, don't know what is going on? I once joined "Course_Talk"
and never got one post on, and was banned, because I answered someone's
quiestion and mentioned another group (they didn't want mentioned, but I
didn't know this, and it wasn't listed in their rules). My post wasn't put
on, and I got emails from the moderators warning me about this and saying my
posts would be held and approved for 2-3 months till they "see what side you
are on". I wrote back and asked them how does seeing sides relate to ACIM
and what it teaches? Next time I went to the group it says "OOPS! You have
been banned by the moderator of this group". Would the other members of this
group have agreed with this? Who knows, they probably didn't even know about
it.

Though, of course, some don't seem to mind and even prefer being
moderated/controlled. They feel safe? They are only safe as long as they're
the way the moderator wants them (the group) to be.

For example, the "Raj" group, where Paul Tuttle "speaks for Jesus" The
NWFFACIM) we have beren told that "Raj" (who, when asked about ACIM years
ago, said "I wrote it") runs it. Runs every aspect of it. Where people who
ask questions they don't want asked, or points out the obivous (they don't
want pointed out) are turned into enemeis and banned. What's been
continuallyl amazing to me (observing this for many years) is how few people
say "THIS isn't what ACIM teaches!" Of course, if they did, and kept it up,
they would no longer be part of the group. Maybe this is learning, in it's
own way, but to me, learning to be what might be phoney and fake, and not
say what one might honestly think, feel and believe, doesn't seem like
"Trust".

On another note, in 1998 when I first got a computer and online, and at
first literally didn't know how to turn it on, I discovered AOL Search. One
night I wrote "miracle" in the search, and what came up was Marianne
Williamson's website and discussion boards.

I had no idea what discussion boards were, I remember asking on it if
anyone could respond to what was written on it? I was told (by someone
there) "whatever is written publically on the board anyone can respond to
and answer".
I was involved in this group for the next 8 months, when the boards
were closed. Various rumors went around about why, we never got a real
reason, and it was like a family, where someone died... Some speculated it
was due to Marianne being appointed minister of the Church of Today in MI
and it not looking good, what seemed like arguing on her discussion boards.
Years later, someone stated it was because of some from Endeavor Academy
taking over one of the topics (I mainly stayed on the "GenDisc" one) and
they had gone to one of her talks and heckled her. I'd have liked to think
Marianne would have been above this (closing the boards because of this).
Others, who went to her talks after, asked her about it, and said she didn't
seem to know anything about it (the boards on her website being closed) and
was surprised anyone really cared they were gone.

The point of this I learned and remember. We were like a family. We were
different, we clashed at times, we didn't always get along (at any given
time someone was mad at someone) BUT, this was like a real family, in a way.
Who always gets along and agrees with and is peaceful with everyone? All
heck would break loose on the boards. Sometimes some would post using a fake
name, or pretending to be someone else. A lot must have also gone on, in
private emails, behind backs. But, it would be like a wave. It would get
rough, and angry, with what seemed to be attack (didn't look good or course
like!) but then, at some point, someone would write something- maybe come
from peace or another subject, and it would all calm down and be over.
BECAUSE WE WERE LEFT ALONE. This was allowed to happen. Work out on it's
own. No moderator stepped in and warned, yelled at, banned (or thereatened
to ban) anyone. It would all work out on it's own.
Before the boards were closeed, a few people found it and started
writing about how bad it looked. How it didn't give a good picture of ACIM
to anyone coming there new. And they claimed they had complained to
Marianne about it and she didn't like it, and if people didn't shape up
they'd be sorry, etc. (I don't think Marianne even remembered she had
discussion boards. Though years before, I heard she had participated there,
before she got more known and busy). There was a lot of fighting with the
newcomers who thought it should be moderated, and people have to register
and sign in, so they could be controlled (and/or banned) They were horrified
at some of those posting there. Like the ones who had been there since it
started who would say "if you don't like it go somewhere else!" Which made
sense. But, no, they had to fight over it. They did NOT like it being open
and unmoderated and people could write whatever they wanted. They didn't
seem to see it like, in spite of how it looked, we all loved each other like
a family. Even if we weren't just posting pretty quotes from ACIIM and
saying "yes, you are right" all the time. The newcomers, who did not like
how it was (but felt compelled to stay there) also didn't see a lot of the
fighting and trouble, and meanness was directed at them and because of them.
They were coming from "I don't care if the boards get shut down so NO ONE
will have them, we can't just leave it like this!"
They didn't try and fit in and go with it.
Of course, maybe the time had come, and a lot of aspects probably were
involved. It might have looked rough at times, but there were also a lot
good that happened. They had a small (real time) chat room that we'd go in.
A lot of the time not many were there at once. I was writing to someone in
it one night when someone (stranger) found it, who had decided to commit
suicide that night. I forget who else was there, too, but we started writing
to the person, who had a lot of problems (we never even knew if it was a man
or woman) and they ended up saying maybe they would give it another chance.
Never knew what happened after. But, it might have been called a spontaneous
"Holy Instant" at the time.
Yet, there were some who only saw the "freedom" of the board (and
chatroom) People were actually free to write whatever they wanted!
And, as I said, what I remember from my 8 months there, was the "ebb
and flow". The rough and what didn't look good, but then it would change to
peaceful and getting along again. Because this was allowed.
The idea of believing in the good winning out, if allowed. Seeing it
as "leave people alone and give them freedom and they will fight and destroy
themselves, each other and the world!" Instead of having faith and trusting
Holy Spirit to use everything and anything, for learning, and finding ways
to rememeber our Oneness and be Glad. Maybe there has to be freedom to "not
get along" in order to bounce off each other and learn about ourselves (and
what doesn't work) and every now and then something wonderful happens.
People actually join, forget their perceived differences, and let everything
else go.
Maybe this happens on moderated groups, but I've never experienced
it. But then, anytime I have tried to get along on moderated groups I
haven't lasted very long... (LOL)

David Thomson

2011-01-20 17:01:47 UTC

That's it right there. We make our own enemies. And we also make our
own friends.

The difference between an enemy and a friend is time. Forgiveness
(miracles) greatly shortens the amount of time needed. Without a
moderator to act as a judge, an important tool of the ego is removed
from the discussion. It may seem like chaos to those who are not
seeing the miracles, but to those seeing the miracles, it is seen as
healing.

Dave

Carrie

2011-01-20 17:44:44 UTC

That's it right there. We make our own enemies. And we also make our
own friends.
The difference between an enemy and a friend is time. Forgiveness
(miracles) greatly shortens the amount of time needed. Without a
moderator to act as a judge, an important tool of the ego is removed
from the discussion. It may seem like chaos to those who are not
seeing the miracles, but to those seeing the miracles, it is seen as
healing.
Dave

By Jove, I think we've got it! LOL

Pieter

2011-01-20 21:48:51 UTC

Carrie

2011-01-20 22:29:59 UTC

That's it right there. We make our own enemies. And we also make our
own friends.
The difference between an enemy and a friend is time. Forgiveness
(miracles) greatly shortens the amount of time needed. Without a
moderator to act as a judge, an important tool of the ego is removed
from the discussion. It may seem like chaos to those who are not
seeing the miracles, but to those seeing the miracles, it is seen as
healing.
Dave
- Love to read your posts!

A few times, I've had something happen, I'm not sure would have on
moderated (controlled, censored) boards. I wasn;'t getting along with
someone... for whatever reason. Ego issues, we got into back and forth, or
whatever h appens. Then something shifte. I don't think I (or we) could have
made it h appen, even if we were trying. Because I've tried other times.
Something happened, like a connection. I saw something (or felt it) in the
other, maybe seeing the "humanity" (or human?) in them? And from then on,
they no longer bothered me, were no longer "the enemy" or whatever that had
seemed like such a big deal up till then. Stepping outside of ego?
Shifting to another Teacher. It hasn't happened much, but the few times it
did, everything changed. Yet, at the same time nothing had changed. Maybe
this is "Seeing the Face of Christ" in a brother?
A long time ago, on the boards on marianne.com (which I have mentioned)
someone who was one of the (quote/unqoute) troublemakers (but he had been on
the boards since the start and I'd heard he and Marianne had gotten along
fine. She thought he was funny) wrote something. He was (and probably still
is) a wonderful writer, and had a way of seeing things that made sense, and
putting them in to words. I wish I had it saved. At the time I didn't know
much about computers, and all we had to save on (besides the hardrives which
could be whiped out with a reinstall of Windows 98) were floppy disks.
Anyway, he wrote something so wonderful and true. About the boards, which
were unmoderated, and some didn't like this, and thought "Marianne should DO
SOMETHING!" He wrote something like... he had been on the boards for X
number of years, and gotten madder at people there than in his offline life,
and joked around and been made a joke of, and left (in a huff) and then came
back, and had his heart broken (he's had a cyber affair with someone who
went back to to husband to give it another try) and things like that. But, h
e said, every now and then there was a connection with someone else (on the
board) that was like magic. And when that happened it made everything else
worth it. And he thought THAT was one reason he (and maybe others) kept
coming back to the boards, to get that feeling. That couldn't be forced, or
made to happen. Maybe just allowed.
I haven't done it justice in the retelling of it (after 12 or so years)
but I remember the point of it. Every now and then two people would connect,
or join (writing on the board) and when it happened it was like magic.
That's what keeps us going, and for me anyway, I guess I'm thinking
maybe it wouldn't or couldn't happen on a moderated board. Someone would
jump in and decide how or what should be happening, and warn, delete, edit,
ban, before it could get to that point.
Maybe it's just me. But, seems like people who are allowed to write
freely, even though it might not always "look" good, are more open to
sharing their real "selves" or whatever. Even if it takes a very long time
and a lot of words that seem mean, angry, judgmental, or whatever.
I know one person (known for his lack of tact- being a Scorpio (LOL)
who started out following me around on boards writing what seemed like mean
stuff and saying "you lie". We ended up good friends (online) and I felt we
had a connection (just happened, maybe when I realized he wasn't just the
words he was writing, and maybe he used them to test people). Even now,
though we've not been in contact for years, I still feel good about him and
hope he feels the same way about me.
LIke "come to an understanding"? See the picture and not the frame?
Maybe one can be open to allowing this, but, in my limited experience, I'm
not sure it can be forced.

Sidney Lambe

2011-01-19 06:38:26 UTC

:-) Looks like I decide what these zealots talk about.

Religious fanatics do not take criticism of their pet beliefs
very well.

I see that some new sockpuppets have made an appearance.

Trolls are such a big yawn.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Carrie

2011-01-19 13:06:02 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Sidney Lambe

:-) Looks like I decide what these zealots talk about.
Religious fanatics do not take criticism of their pet beliefs
very well.
I see that some new sockpuppets have made an appearance.
Trolls are such a big yawn.
Sid

Trolls are in the mind of the one seeing them.

Sidney Lambe

2011-01-19 16:36:22 UTC

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie

I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

HappyD

2011-01-19 22:26:57 UTC

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie
I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Oh jeez Sidney how many times are you going to post your not going to
read other peoples post crap? God get a life Mr projection machine.
Who frinkin cares?

Its all you, you're all loser's blah blah blah

Boring boring boring!

LOL

Carrie

2011-01-19 22:34:38 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Sidney Lambe

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie
I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Oh jeez Sidney how many times are you going to post your not going to
read other peoples post crap? God get a life Mr projection machine.
Who frinkin cares?
Its all you, you're all loser's blah blah blah
Boring boring boring!
LOL

I was going to ask if he/she thought our feelings would be h urt by this.
But, since he/she doesn't read what we write, what's the point?

Sidney Lambe

2011-01-19 22:36:15 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie
I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.

Hey "HappyD" (who should really be named "Nightmare"}.

I just wanted to thank you for keeping your punk mouth shut when
you are in my newsreader.

And for reading all my articles even though I don't read any
of yours any more.

Not that an unenlightened pbony like you has any choice other
than to obey my wishes.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

HappyD

2011-01-20 00:38:52 UTC

Sidiot:
And for reading all my articles even though I don't read any
of yours any more.

Mr nonsensical, thats our sid.

Claiming to not read my post by responding to it, priceless.

Carrie

2011-01-20 02:11:18 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
And for reading all my articles even though I don't read any
of yours any more.
Mr nonsensical, thats our sid.
Claiming to not read my post by responding to it, priceless.

I guess we're not supposed to notice this.

Sidney Lambe

2011-01-20 01:05:34 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie
I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.

Hey "HappyD" (who should really be named "Nightmare"}.
I just wanted to thank you for keeping your punk mouth shut when
you are in my newsreader.
And for reading all my articles even though I don't read any
of yours any more.
Not that an unenlightened pbony like you has any choice other
than to obey my wishes.

Told you he couldn't help by read my article.
The proof is in the pudding....My magick works.

The pitiful, psuedo-esoteric spiritual poison
he peddles isn't good for anything but impressing
the peasants and making the world a worse place
to be.

This is why ACIM remains an obscure cult after
all these years.

Nightmare? You'll have to keep kissing my ass,
because that's the way I want it to be.

But would you lay off with the tongue, please?

It tickles.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

HappyD

2011-01-20 01:50:08 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie
I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.

Hey "HappyD" (who should really be named "Nightmare"}.
I just wanted to thank you for keeping your punk mouth shut when
you are in my newsreader.
And for reading all my articles even though I don't read any
of yours any more.
Not that an unenlightened pbony like you has any choice other
than to obey my wishes.

Told you he couldn't help by read my article.
The proof is in the pudding....My magick works.
The pitiful, psuedo-esoteric spiritual poison
he peddles isn't good for anything but impressing
the peasants and making the world a worse place
to be.
This is why ACIM remains an obscure cult after
all these years.
Nightmare? You'll have to keep kissing my ass,
because that's the way I want it to be.
But would you lay off with the tongue, please?
It tickles.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

First you post to me saying your not reading my posts then you steal
my jokes.
Oh Sidiot, does you loonesy have no end? Me no think so. You're like a
John Lopez light.

Happy:D I'll have a Lopez light please.

Usenet tender: Aw sorry we're all out Lopez light . How about a
Sidiot? Its half the hatespeak with just a s much loonesy. Why not try
it, might be worth a chuckle or two?

Okey

LOL

Carrie

2011-01-20 02:12:43 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Sidney Lambe

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie
I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.

Hey "HappyD" (who should really be named "Nightmare"}.
I just wanted to thank you for keeping your punk mouth shut when
you are in my newsreader.
And for reading all my articles even though I don't read any
of yours any more.
Not that an unenlightened pbony like you has any choice other
than to obey my wishes.

Told you he couldn't help by read my article.
The proof is in the pudding....My magick works.
The pitiful, psuedo-esoteric spiritual poison
he peddles isn't good for anything but impressing
the peasants and making the world a worse place
to be.
This is why ACIM remains an obscure cult after
all these years.
Nightmare? You'll have to keep kissing my ass,
because that's the way I want it to be.
But would you lay off with the tongue, please?
It tickles.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

First you post to me saying your not reading my posts then you steal
my jokes.
Oh Sidiot, does you loonesy have no end? Me no think so. You're like a
John Lopez light.
Happy:D I'll have a Lopez light please.
Usenet tender: Aw sorry we're all out Lopez light . How about a
Sidiot? Its half the hatespeak with just a s much loonesy. Why not try
it, might be worth a chuckle or two?
Okey
LOL

I think he/she likes you...
And too much restraint for JL, unless he's got meds now.

deb

2011-01-20 02:41:51 UTC

Post by Carrie

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Sidney Lambe

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie
I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.

Hey "HappyD" (who should really be named "Nightmare"}.
I just wanted to thank you for keeping your punk mouth shut when
you are in my newsreader.
And for reading all my articles even though I don't read any
of yours any more.
Not that an unenlightened pbony like you has any choice other
than to obey my wishes.

Told you he couldn't help by read my article.
The proof is in the pudding....My magick works.
The pitiful, psuedo-esoteric spiritual poison
he peddles isn't good for anything but impressing
the peasants and making the world a worse place
to be.
This is why ACIM remains an obscure cult after
all these years.
Nightmare? You'll have to keep kissing my ass,
because that's the way I want it to be.
But would you lay off with the tongue, please?
It tickles.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

First you post to me saying your not reading my posts then you steal
my jokes.
Oh Sidiot, does you loonesy have no end? Me no think so. You're like a
John Lopez light.
Happy:D I'll have a Lopez light please.
Usenet tender: Aw sorry we're all out Lopez light . How about a
Sidiot? Its half the hatespeak with just a s much loonesy. Why not try
it, might be worth a chuckle or two?
Okey
LOL

I think he/she likes you...
And too much restraint for JL, unless he's got meds now.

LOL, you have a new fan Carrie? Thought I would take a peek to see what was
shaking on the NG.

Carrie

2011-01-20 02:52:47 UTC

Post by Carrie

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Sidney Lambe

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie
I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.

Hey "HappyD" (who should really be named "Nightmare"}.
I just wanted to thank you for keeping your punk mouth shut when
you are in my newsreader.
And for reading all my articles even though I don't read any
of yours any more.
Not that an unenlightened pbony like you has any choice other
than to obey my wishes.

Told you he couldn't help by read my article.
The proof is in the pudding....My magick works.
The pitiful, psuedo-esoteric spiritual poison
he peddles isn't good for anything but impressing
the peasants and making the world a worse place
to be.
This is why ACIM remains an obscure cult after
all these years.
Nightmare? You'll have to keep kissing my ass,
because that's the way I want it to be.
But would you lay off with the tongue, please?
It tickles.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

First you post to me saying your not reading my posts then you steal
my jokes.
Oh Sidiot, does you loonesy have no end? Me no think so. You're
like a John Lopez light.
Happy:D I'll have a Lopez light please.
Usenet tender: Aw sorry we're all out Lopez light . How about a
Sidiot? Its half the hatespeak with just a s much loonesy. Why not
try it, might be worth a chuckle or two?
Okey
LOL

I think he/she likes you...
And too much restraint for JL, unless he's got meds now.

LOL, you have a new fan Carrie? Thought I would take a peek to see
what was shaking on the NG.

I guess so. Even if he/she says he/she doesn't read what I write.
And it does seem to be resurrecting the ng again.
Are you watching Idol tonight with Steven Tyler and Jennifer Lopez
starting out? I was for awhile, but it's 2 hours long... I can hear it from
the other room.
I think they are going to be good on it (with Randy to keep it grounded)
They seem to be having a great time, being silly with those trying out.

deb

2011-01-20 12:35:12 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Sidney Lambe

Carrie
HappyD
David Thomso
Carrie
Deborah
Carrie
eluq
Carrie
HappyD
Carrie
David Thomso
Carrie
I don't have to read any of their articles. The
opinions of brain-dead religious fanatics
with the maturity of spoiled-rotten teen-age
bitches are as predictable as shit in a toilet.

Hey "HappyD" (who should really be named "Nightmare"}.
I just wanted to thank you for keeping your punk mouth shut when
you are in my newsreader.
And for reading all my articles even though I don't read any
of yours any more.
Not that an unenlightened pbony like you has any choice other
than to obey my wishes.

Told you he couldn't help by read my article.
The proof is in the pudding....My magick works.
The pitiful, psuedo-esoteric spiritual poison
he peddles isn't good for anything but impressing
the peasants and making the world a worse place
to be.
This is why ACIM remains an obscure cult after
all these years.
Nightmare? You'll have to keep kissing my ass,
because that's the way I want it to be.
But would you lay off with the tongue, please?
It tickles.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

First you post to me saying your not reading my posts then you steal
my jokes.
Oh Sidiot, does you loonesy have no end? Me no think so. You're
like a John Lopez light.
Happy:D I'll have a Lopez light please.
Usenet tender: Aw sorry we're all out Lopez light . How about a
Sidiot? Its half the hatespeak with just a s much loonesy. Why not
try it, might be worth a chuckle or two?
Okey
LOL

I think he/she likes you...
And too much restraint for JL, unless he's got meds now.

LOL, you have a new fan Carrie? Thought I would take a peek to see
what was shaking on the NG.

Yes, Steven and Jennifer brought a really good vibe to the show, looks like
it might be a very good season.

Carrie

2011-01-20 13:19:01 UTC