Prometheus Rising [excerpt]

[Kaydon]

This excerpt is from chapter 1. The exercise about willing yourself to
fly is nearly as interesting as my atomic explosion experiment, and
just about as big a waste of time ^_^

"1. Visualize a quarter vividly, and imagine vividly that you are
going to find the quarter on the street. Then, look for the quarter
every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it.
See how long it takes you to find the quarter.
2. Explain the above experiment by the hypothesis of "selec-
tive attention"—that is, believe there are lots of lost quarters
everywhere and you were bound to find one by continually look-
ing. Go looking for a second quarter.
3. Explain the experiment by the alternative "mystical"
hypothesis that "mind controls everything." Believe that you
made the quarter manifest in this universe. Go looking for a
second quarter.
4. Compare the time it takes to find the second quarter using
the first hypothesis (attention) with the time it takes using the
second hypothesis (mind-over-matter).
5. With your own ingenuity, invent similar experiments and
each time compare the two theories—"selective attention"
(coincidence) vs. "mind controls everything" (psychokinesis).
6. Avoid coming to any strong conclusions prematurely. At
the end of a month, re-read this chapter, think it over again, and
still postpone coming to any dogmatic conclusion. Believe it
possible that you do not know everything yet, and that you might
have something still to learn.
7. Convince yourself1 (if you are not already convinced) that
you are ugly, unattractive and dull. Go to a party in that frame of
mind. Observe how people treat you.
8. Convince yourself (if you are not already convinced) that
you are handsome, irresistible and witty. Go to a party in that
frame of mind. Observe how people treat you.
9. This is the hardest of all exercizes and comes in two parts.
First, observe closely and dispassionately two dear friends and
two relative strangers. Try to figure out what their Thinkers
think, and how their Provers methodically set about proving it.
Second, apply the same exercize to yourself.
If you think you have learned the lessons of these exercizes in
less than six months, you haven't really been working at them.
With real work, in six months you should be just beginning to
realize how little you know about everything.
10. Believe it possible that you can float off the ground and
fly by merely willing it. See what happens.
If this exercize proves as disappointing to you as it has to me,
try number 11 below, which is never disappointing.
11. Believe that you can exceed all your previous ambitions
and hopes in all areas of your life."

<3
xoxoxoxoo

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Kaydon <***@rocketmail.com> wrote:
[delete]

11. Believe that you can exceed all your previous ambitions and
hopes in all areas of your life."

Pollyanna strikes again. All these years of positive thinking
books and they never work as billed, but nobody pays attention.

That's a good belief, but many other beliefs can neutralize it.
Such as the belief that you are an unworthy person and do not
deserve to succeed at anything.

And you can't just blanket over an old belief with its opposite.
You have to look at the reasons you chose the now-unwanted belief
and respect the integrity of your belief system.

Do keep in mind that Pollyanna died of thirst because she
wouldn't let it rain in her world.

And that no matter how hard you try to believe otherwise, shit
still stinks. Jesus' shit stank to high heaven, of course.

For those of you who haven't studied the mis-named "A Course In
Miracles" (ACIM) it is just mainstream Christianity in a new-age
costume.

[Sidney.Lambe]

On the weekends, most of the people here post on other forums using
other aliases.

Me, I just put in my weekly troll because I'm never gigging and I can
hope the real players won't notice until they get from work.

Note: I do not read any responses to my posts here, or any responses
to them, and so on. Really, and if you don't believe me, I'll prove it
by not posting again until someone responds.

um, I think that would prove it, wouldn't it?

wait, er, Mom!!!!

Sidney Lambe / My poop is Evergreen
Solitaire (I tried Go Fish, but nobody would play) Wacco Priest
http:// I Have A tiny url


Evergreen - usenet4444 @ gmail.com

[Carrie]

Post by Kaydon
This excerpt is from chapter 1. The exercise about willing yourself to
fly is nearly as interesting as my atomic explosion experiment, and
just about as big a waste of time ^_^
"1. Visualize a quarter vividly, and imagine vividly that you are
going to find the quarter on the street. Then, look for the quarter
every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it.
See how long it takes you to find the quarter.

Why not do this with a $20 bill? or a $100 bill? The only difference is
belief.

Post by Kaydon
2. Explain the above experiment by the hypothesis of "selec-
tive attention"-that is, believe there are lots of lost quarters
everywhere and you were bound to find one by continually look-
ing. Go looking for a second quarter.
3. Explain the experiment by the alternative "mystical"
hypothesis that "mind controls everything." Believe that you
made the quarter manifest in this universe. Go looking for a
second quarter.

Though it seems like things just "are", there's also the theory that we
create them that way, out of energy.
Is the quarter already there waiting to be found, previously held by
someone else? Or do I manifest it by my belief, and assume it was owned by
someone else and dropped in some way, to make sense of it.

Post by Kaydon
4. Compare the time it takes to find the second quarter using
the first hypothesis (attention) with the time it takes using the
second hypothesis (mind-over-matter).
5. With your own ingenuity, invent similar experiments and
each time compare the two theories-"selective attention"
(coincidence) vs. "mind controls everything" (psychokinesis).
6. Avoid coming to any strong conclusions prematurely. At
the end of a month, re-read this chapter, think it over again, and
still postpone coming to any dogmatic conclusion. Believe it
possible that you do not know everything yet, and that you might
have something still to learn.
7. Convince yourself1 (if you are not already convinced) that
you are ugly, unattractive and dull. Go to a party in that frame of
mind. Observe how people treat you.
8. Convince yourself (if you are not already convinced) that
you are handsome, irresistible and witty. Go to a party in that
frame of mind. Observe how people treat you.
9. This is the hardest of all exercizes and comes in two parts.
First, observe closely and dispassionately two dear friends and
two relative strangers. Try to figure out what their Thinkers
think, and how their Provers methodically set about proving it.
Second, apply the same exercize to yourself.
If you think you have learned the lessons of these exercizes in
less than six months, you haven't really been working at them.
With real work, in six months you should be just beginning to
realize how little you know about everything.
10. Believe it possible that you can float off the ground and
fly by merely willing it. See what happens.
If this exercize proves as disappointing to you as it has to me,
try number 11 below, which is never disappointing.
11. Believe that you can exceed all your previous ambitions
and hopes in all areas of your life."

I once read something like this, but it had to do with the belief in a
process. There must be time (a certain amount) for a cut to heal, for
example. There must be a process, like using a broom or vacuum cleaner or
mop to have a clean floor. Can we comprehend having a clean floor without
using something and some process? Even picking things up off it by hand.
What about just the belief it is clean? Jesus said what he did anyone could
do. "This and more" through the Power of the Father within.
Father, like other word and terms, a translation, and used as a metaphor.
To try and discribe the undiscribable.

Post by Kaydon
<3
xoxoxoxoo
--
"To be or not to be, that is the question. Unless you're a photon."

[Kaydon]

Post by Carrie

Post by Kaydon
This excerpt is from chapter 1. The exercise about willing yourself
to fly is nearly as interesting as my atomic explosion experiment,
and just about as big a waste of time ^_^
"1. Visualize a quarter vividly, and imagine vividly that you are
going to find the quarter on the street. Then, look for the quarter
every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it.
See how long it takes you to find the quarter.

Why not do this with a $20 bill? or a $100 bill? The only
difference is belief.

Yes. Teh author (Robert Anton Wilson) is just starting us off small, in
case we have no familarity whit the concepts. Believe me, thing get
weirder ^_^

<3
xoxoxoo

[Tom]

Post by Kaydon
Yes. Teh author (Robert Anton Wilson) is just starting us off small, in
case we have no familarity whit the concepts. Believe me, thing get
weirder ^_^

We should note that Robert Anton Wilson also failed to get off the
ground using this technique.

Believing something doesn't make it true. It only makes it seem true
as long as you don't test it.

Belief that you can find a way is a good start because it empowers you
to keep trying, but then you actually have to find a way.

Sid's blather about other people squelching your belief with theirs is
just an excuse for why he can't do it either. Nobody believed Wilbur
and Orville would fly either, but they did it anyway. So Sid, as
usual, is completely full of shit.

[Kaydon]

Post by Tom

Post by Kaydon
Yes. Teh author (Robert Anton Wilson) is just starting us off
small, in case we have no familarity whit the concepts. Believe me,
thing get weirder ^_^

We should note that Robert Anton Wilson also failed to get off the
ground using this technique.

lol-Yes:P

Post by Tom
Belief that you can find a way is a good start because it empowers you
to keep trying, but then you actually have to find a way.

Was it Bruce Lee that say "A goal isn't always meant to be reached, but
to be reached for"?? Some thing like that <3

xoxoxoxoo

[Carrie]

Post by Kaydon

Post by Tom

Post by Kaydon
Yes. Teh author (Robert Anton Wilson) is just starting us off
small, in case we have no familarity whit the concepts. Believe me,
thing get weirder ^_^

We should note that Robert Anton Wilson also failed to get off the
ground using this technique.

lol-Yes:P

Post by Tom
Belief that you can find a way is a good start because it empowers you
to keep trying, but then you actually have to find a way.

Was it Bruce Lee that say "A goal isn't always meant to be reached, but
to be reached for"?? Some thing like that <3

I think if a belief doesn't work out (like you don't find the quarter)
it means it wasn't totally believed. Believe, then "let it go" (don't think
about it, because this tends to add doubt) and it happens. In some way or
time. Maybe when we had forgotten about it.
I was listening one day to an Abraham CD and they were saying "it's just
as easy to create- manifest a castle as a button" Though of coure, the idea
of creating a button 'out of thin air" might be just as unbelievable. I
glanced down at the table next to me and there was a small red button. Some
time earlier I had been looking for something and picked up a cup off a
shelf (I tend to have cups and boxes and put pens, paper clips, etc in them)
and noticed something in the bottom, tipped it over and this small red
button fell out. I hadn't given it much, if any thought at the time. I
needed the container for something. Don't kow where the button came from or
how or when it got in there. But, I heard that line aabout manifesting a
button (or a castle) and my attention went to the button, which I had
"manifested" in front of me in some way.
Maybe the castle did, too, and I didn't notice it. Maybe it wasn't meant
as an actual castle, like a large building. Maybe I don't really WANT a
castle, so didn't believe it would manifest.
Things go on we aren't aware of, and can't or don't comprehend.
Maybe how ants feel about us.

Post by Kaydon
xoxoxoxoo
--
"To be or not to be, that is the question. Unless you're a photon."

[Tom]

    I think if a belief doesn't work out (like you don't find the quarter)
it means it wasn't totally believed. Believe, then "let it go" (don't think
about it, because this tends to add doubt) and it happens. In some way or
time. Maybe when we had forgotten about it.

Now there's a philosophy. Just believe any old nonsense and don't
ever think about it because you might find it isn't true. It won't
matter if what you believe will happen never does because you've
forgotten all about it anyway.

   I was listening one day to an Abraham CD and they were saying "it's just
as easy to create- manifest a castle as a button" Though of coure, the idea
of creating a button 'out of thin air" might be just as unbelievable. I
glanced down at the table next to me and there was a small red button.

Let us know when suddenly a full-size castle appears on your lawn.

    Maybe the castle did, too, and I didn't notice it.

That would take a level of total obliviousness that not even you could
manage. Surely someone would have mentioned to you the sudden
appearance of a huge castle in your yard, even if you were too lost in
dreamland to notice it yourself.

Maybe it wasn't meant
as an actual castle, like a large building.

And maybe not a button but a quarter, or a piece of lint, or a cat.
Or anything at all that you might decide to call a button so that you
could pretend you "manifested" a button.

Maybe I don't really WANT a
castle, so didn't believe it would manifest.

That's another good one. Just make your beliefs retroactive.
Whatever happens, just convince yourself you believed it, even it it
never crossed your mind before in your whole life, but if something
you tried to "manifest" doesn't happen, just convince yourself that
you never believed it in the first place even if you thought you did.
That way, no matter what shit you dream up, you can always make
excuses why it isn't just shit you dreamed up. And then you could
also tell yourself that the you that believes untrue stuff isn't the
real you. There's no end to how much crap you can tell yourself as
long as you're resolved never to think about it for fear of doubting
it.

[Bassos]

Post by Tom

Post by Carrie
I think if a belief doesn't work out (like you don't find the quarter)
it means it wasn't totally believed. Believe, then "let it go" (don't think
about it, because this tends to add doubt) and it happens. In some way or
time. Maybe when we had forgotten about it.

Now there's a philosophy. Just believe any old nonsense and don't
ever think about it because you might find it isn't true. It won't
matter if what you believe will happen never does because you've
forgotten all about it anyway.

Post by Carrie
I was listening one day to an Abraham CD and they were saying "it's just
as easy to create- manifest a castle as a button" Though of coure, the idea
of creating a button 'out of thin air" might be just as unbelievable. I
glanced down at the table next to me and there was a small red button.

Let us know when suddenly a full-size castle appears on your lawn.

Post by Carrie
Maybe the castle did, too, and I didn't notice it.

That would take a level of total obliviousness that not even you could
manage. Surely someone would have mentioned to you the sudden
appearance of a huge castle in your yard, even if you were too lost in
dreamland to notice it yourself.

Post by Carrie
Maybe it wasn't meant
as an actual castle, like a large building.

And maybe not a button but a quarter, or a piece of lint, or a cat.
Or anything at all that you might decide to call a button so that you
could pretend you "manifested" a button.

Post by Carrie
Maybe I don't really WANT a
castle, so didn't believe it would manifest.

That's another good one. Just make your beliefs retroactive.
Whatever happens, just convince yourself you believed it, even it it
never crossed your mind before in your whole life, but if something
you tried to "manifest" doesn't happen, just convince yourself that
you never believed it in the first place even if you thought you did.
That way, no matter what shit you dream up, you can always make
excuses why it isn't just shit you dreamed up. And then you could
also tell yourself that the you that believes untrue stuff isn't the
real you. There's no end to how much crap you can tell yourself as
long as you're resolved never to think about it for fear of doubting
it.

You forgot your linkage:

(i guess you indeed realize i will use words if melikes)

[Carrie]

Post by Carrie
I think if a belief doesn't work out (like you don't find the quarter)
it means it wasn't totally believed. Believe, then "let it go" (don't think
about it, because this tends to add doubt) and it happens. In some way or
time. Maybe when we had forgotten about it.

Now there's a philosophy. Just believe any old nonsense and don't
ever think about it because you might find it isn't true. It won't
matter if what you believe will happen never does because you've
forgotten all about it anyway.

Let it go, allow it to happen. Want, believe, conceive, visualize, affirm,
then allow. This sets it up so you just "know" you have it, and it will show
up in form.

Post by Carrie
I was listening one day to an Abraham CD and they were saying "it's just
as easy to create- manifest a castle as a button" Though of coure, the idea
of creating a button 'out of thin air" might be just as unbelievable. I
glanced down at the table next to me and there was a small red button.

Let us know when suddenly a full-size castle appears on your lawn.

I don't want one, I like the lawn. I believed nice, green grass would
appear and now all of a sudden it has.

Post by Carrie
Maybe the castle did, too, and I didn't notice it.

That would take a level of total obliviousness that not even you could
manage. Surely someone would have mentioned to you the sudden
appearance of a huge castle in your yard, even if you were too lost in
dreamland to notice it yourself.

I didn't say or mean "in my yard". It could have manifested somewhere,
where a castle would fit in and not be noticed. Even if one did appear on my
lawn, the dynamics around it would be set into place so it wouldn't seem
unusual. Like a small castle with a fountain, or in a rock garden of
flowers, etc.

Post by Carrie
Maybe it wasn't meant
as an actual castle, like a large building.

And maybe not a button but a quarter, or a piece of lint, or a cat.
Or anything at all that you might decide to call a button so that you
could pretend you "manifested" a button.

I don't really try and manifest things. I like the idea of law of
attraction, aligning with what I might want and allowint it to come into my
life in some way.
For example I wanted more people to come write on this newsgroup.

Post by Carrie
Maybe I don't really WANT a
castle, so didn't believe it would manifest.

That's another good one. Just make your beliefs retroactive.
Whatever happens, just convince yourself you believed it, even it it
never crossed your mind before in your whole life, but if something
you tried to "manifest" doesn't happen, just convince yourself that
you never believed it in the first place even if you thought you did.
That way, no matter what shit you dream up, you can always make
excuses why it isn't just shit you dreamed up. And then you could
also tell yourself that the you that believes untrue stuff isn't the
real you. There's no end to how much crap you can tell yourself as
long as you're resolved never to think about it for fear of doubting
it.

I guess that means something important to you, but I don't think I am
that complex. Right now I have a new book teaching Adobe Illustrator, which
I love and want to master. I've been focusing on this a lot and believe, at
some point, I will know enough about it to actually do something productive
with it.

[Tom]

Post by Carrie
I think if a belief doesn't work out (like you don't find the quarter)
it means it wasn't totally believed. Believe, then "let it go" (don't think
about it, because this tends to add doubt) and it happens. In some way or
time. Maybe when we had forgotten about it.

Now there's a philosophy.  Just believe any old nonsense and don't
ever think about it because you might find it isn't true.  It won't
matter if what you believe will happen never does because you've
forgotten all about it anyway.
 Let it go, allow it to happen. Want, believe, conceive, visualize, affirm,
then allow.

But don't think about it, because this tends to add doubt.

This sets it up so you just "know" you have it, and it will show
up in form.

Provided you use one of the excuses I listed: "Retroactive Belief"
or "You Are Not You". Of course those also only work if you don't
think about them too much.

After you get the ball rolling for a while, you can also use
"Selective Memory". That's when you specifically decide to remember
times when things you hoped for did show up by sheer coincidence (like
the appearance of some commonplace and usually insignificant things
like buttons) while continuing to not think about the stuff you wished
for that never happened.

Let us know when suddenly a full-size castle appears on your lawn.
     I don't want one, I like the lawn. I believed nice, green grass would
appear and now all of a sudden it has.

What an amazing demonstration that you're the ruler of the universe
and commander of the seasons. Of course you're not going to admit,
even to yourself, that you believe in anything that could be
falsifiable. Best not to risk trying to believe in that sort of
thing. You might end up doubting.

That would violate the "Don't Think Too Much About What You Believe"
strategy.

    I didn't say or mean "in my yard". It could have manifested somewhere,
where a castle would fit in and not be noticed.

Like Windsor Castle in London! Not only did you cause that to come
into being but you made it happen way back a thousand years ago, so
there wouldn't be any uncomfortable discontinuity. The only thing
missing for you to claim credit is any evidence whatsoever for your
involvement in its conception. Remember: "Don't Think Too Much About
What You Believe", "Retroactive Belief", and "You Are Not You".

      I don't really try and manifest things.

Of course not. "You Are Not You". All that business of manifesting
reality entirely by belief is being handled by the You Who Isn't You.
But don't get the idea that the You Who Isn't You is somebody else!
Nossir! It's You. That's for sure. There's no point in thinking
otherwise. "Don't Think Too Much About What You Believe".

     I guess that means something important to you, but I don't think I am
that complex.

Well, of course you're not. You Are Not You at all. And even if you
were, you don't believe you're complex so you can't possibly be.
Besides, how could you be complex if you don't think too hard about
which you is you and which you isn't? See? It's simple. As you say,
just let it go, allow it. Don't think about it, because this tends to
add doubt.

Right now I have a new book teaching Adobe Illustrator, which
I love and want to master. I've been focusing on this a lot and believe, at
some point, I will know enough about it to actually do something productive
with it.

I'm sure not thinking about it will help you there, too. After all,
Adobe Illustrator works just the way you already believe it does, so
now the only thing you have to do is figure out what you already
believe. The book will certainly tell you what you already believe
about Adobe Illustrator and then you'll finally know what you already
believe. "Retroactive Belief".

[Carrie]

Post by Carrie
I think if a belief doesn't work out (like you don't find the quarter)
it means it wasn't totally believed. Believe, then "let it go" (don't think
about it, because this tends to add doubt) and it happens. In some way or
time. Maybe when we had forgotten about it.

Now there's a philosophy. Just believe any old nonsense and don't
ever think about it because you might find it isn't true. It won't
matter if what you believe will happen never does because you've
forgotten all about it anyway.
Let it go, allow it to happen. Want, believe, conceive, visualize, affirm,
then allow.

But don't think about it, because this tends to add doubt.

This sets it up so you just "know" you have it, and it will show
up in form.

Provided you use one of the excuses I listed: "Retroactive Belief"
or "You Are Not You". Of course those also only work if you don't
think about them too much.

After you get the ball rolling for a while, you can also use
"Selective Memory". That's when you specifically decide to remember
times when things you hoped for did show up by sheer coincidence (like
the appearance of some commonplace and usually insignificant things
like buttons) while continuing to not think about the stuff you wished
for that never happened.

Let us know when suddenly a full-size castle appears on your lawn.
I don't want one, I like the lawn. I believed nice, green grass would
appear and now all of a sudden it has.

What an amazing demonstration that you're the ruler of the universe
and commander of the seasons. Of course you're not going to admit,
even to yourself, that you believe in anything that could be
falsifiable. Best not to risk trying to believe in that sort of
thing. You might end up doubting.

That would violate the "Don't Think Too Much About What You Believe"
strategy.

I didn't say or mean "in my yard". It could have manifested somewhere,
where a castle would fit in and not be noticed.

Like Windsor Castle in London! Not only did you cause that to come
into being but you made it happen way back a thousand years ago, so
there wouldn't be any uncomfortable discontinuity. The only thing
missing for you to claim credit is any evidence whatsoever for your
involvement in its conception. Remember: "Don't Think Too Much About
What You Believe", "Retroactive Belief", and "You Are Not You".

I don't really try and manifest things.

Of course not. "You Are Not You". All that business of manifesting
reality entirely by belief is being handled by the You Who Isn't You.
But don't get the idea that the You Who Isn't You is somebody else!
Nossir! It's You. That's for sure. There's no point in thinking
otherwise. "Don't Think Too Much About What You Believe".

I guess that means something important to you, but I don't think I am
that complex.

Well, of course you're not. You Are Not You at all. And even if you
were, you don't believe you're complex so you can't possibly be.
Besides, how could you be complex if you don't think too hard about
which you is you and which you isn't? See? It's simple. As you say,
just let it go, allow it. Don't think about it, because this tends to
add doubt.

Right now I have a new book teaching Adobe Illustrator, which
I love and want to master. I've been focusing on this a lot and believe, at
some point, I will know enough about it to actually do something productive
with it.

I'm sure not thinking about it will help you there, too. After all,
Adobe Illustrator works just the way you already believe it does, so
now the only thing you have to do is figure out what you already
believe. The book will certainly tell you what you already believe
about Adobe Illustrator and then you'll finally know what you already
believe. "Retroactive Belief".

You obviously don't need any input from me to have a discussion with me...

[Tom]

Post by Tom

Post by Carrie
I think if a belief doesn't work out (like you don't find the quarter)
it means it wasn't totally believed. Believe, then "let it go" (don't think
about it, because this tends to add doubt) and it happens. In some way or
time. Maybe when we had forgotten about it.

Now there's a philosophy. Just believe any old nonsense and don't
ever think about it because you might find it isn't true. It won't
matter if what you believe will happen never does because you've
forgotten all about it anyway.
Let it go, allow it to happen. Want, believe, conceive, visualize, affirm,
then allow.

But don't think about it, because this tends to add doubt.

This sets it up so you just "know" you have it, and it will show
up in form.

Provided you use one of  the excuses I listed:  "Retroactive Belief"
or "You Are Not You".  Of course those also only work if you don't
think about them too much.
After you get the ball rolling for a while, you can also use
"Selective Memory".  That's when you specifically decide to remember
times when things you hoped for did show up by sheer coincidence (like
the appearance of some commonplace and usually insignificant things
like buttons) while continuing to not think about the stuff you wished
for that never happened.

Let us know when suddenly a full-size castle appears on your lawn.
I don't want one, I like the lawn. I believed nice, green grass would
appear and now all of a sudden it has.

What an amazing demonstration that you're the ruler of the universe
and commander of the seasons.  Of course you're not going to admit,
even to yourself, that you believe in anything that could be
falsifiable.  Best not to risk trying to believe in that sort of
thing.  You might end up doubting.
That would violate the "Don't Think Too Much About What You Believe"
strategy.

I didn't say or mean "in my yard". It could have manifested somewhere,
where a castle would fit in and not be noticed.

Like Windsor Castle in London!  Not only did you cause that to come
into being but you made it happen way back a thousand years ago, so
there wouldn't be any uncomfortable discontinuity.  The only thing
missing for you to claim credit is any evidence whatsoever for your
involvement in its conception.  Remember: "Don't Think Too Much About
What You Believe", "Retroactive Belief",  and "You Are Not You".

I don't really try and manifest things.

Of course not.  "You Are Not You".  All that business of manifesting
reality entirely by belief is being handled by the You Who Isn't You.
But don't get the idea that the You Who Isn't You is somebody else!
Nossir!  It's You. That's for sure.  There's no point in thinking
otherwise.  "Don't Think Too Much About What You Believe".

I guess that means something important to you, but I don't think I am
that complex.

Well, of course you're not.  You Are Not You at all.  And even if you
were, you don't believe you're complex so you can't possibly be.
Besides, how could you be complex if you don't think too hard about
which you is you and which you isn't?  See?  It's simple. As you say,
just let it go, allow it.  Don't think about it, because this tends to
add doubt.

Right now I have a new book teaching Adobe Illustrator, which
I love and want to master. I've been focusing on this a lot and believe, at
some point, I will know enough about it to actually do something productive
with it.

I'm sure not thinking about it will help you there, too.  After all,
Adobe Illustrator works just the way you already believe it does, so
now the only thing you have to do is figure out what you already
believe.  The book will certainly tell you what you already believe
about Adobe Illustrator and then you'll finally know what you already
believe.  "Retroactive Belief".
 You obviously don't need any input from me to have a discussion with me...

Is this a discussion? I thought it was your sermon with my
commentary.

I'm just capsulizing your philosophy as you describe it. "Don't Think
Too Much About What You Believe", "Retroactive Belief", You Are Not
You", and "Selective Memory".

[Absorbed]

Post by Tom

Post by Carrie
You obviously don't need any input from me to have a discussion with me...

Is this a discussion? I thought it was your sermon with my
commentary.
I'm just capsulizing your philosophy as you describe it. "Don't Think
Too Much About What You Believe", "Retroactive Belief", You Are Not
You", and "Selective Memory".

“You can hold back from the suffering of the world, you have free
permission to do so, and it is in accordance with your nature. But
perhaps the holding back is the one suffering you could have avoided.”
-- Franz Kafka

[Absorbed]

Post by Tom

Post by Carrie
I think if a belief doesn't work out (like you don't find the quarter)
it means it wasn't totally believed. Believe, then "let it go" (don't think
about it, because this tends to add doubt) and it happens. In some way or
time. Maybe when we had forgotten about it.

Now there's a philosophy. Just believe any old nonsense and don't
ever think about it because you might find it isn't true. It won't
matter if what you believe will happen never does because you've
forgotten all about it anyway.
Let it go, allow it to happen. Want, believe, conceive, visualize, affirm,
then allow.

But don't think about it, because this tends to add doubt.

This sets it up so you just "know" you have it, and it will show
up in form.

Provided you use one of the excuses I listed: "Retroactive Belief"
or "You Are Not You". Of course those also only work if you don't
think about them too much.
After you get the ball rolling for a while, you can also use
"Selective Memory". That's when you specifically decide to remember
times when things you hoped for did show up by sheer coincidence (like
the appearance of some commonplace and usually insignificant things
like buttons) while continuing to not think about the stuff you wished
for that never happened.

Let us know when suddenly a full-size castle appears on your lawn.
I don't want one, I like the lawn. I believed nice, green grass would
appear and now all of a sudden it has.

What an amazing demonstration that you're the ruler of the universe
and commander of the seasons. Of course you're not going to admit,
even to yourself, that you believe in anything that could be
falsifiable. Best not to risk trying to believe in that sort of
thing. You might end up doubting.
That would violate the "Don't Think Too Much About What You Believe"
strategy.

I didn't say or mean "in my yard". It could have manifested somewhere,
where a castle would fit in and not be noticed.

Like Windsor Castle in London! Not only did you cause that to come
into being but you made it happen way back a thousand years ago, so
there wouldn't be any uncomfortable discontinuity. The only thing
missing for you to claim credit is any evidence whatsoever for your
involvement in its conception. Remember: "Don't Think Too Much About
What You Believe", "Retroactive Belief", and "You Are Not You".

I don't really try and manifest things.

Of course not. "You Are Not You". All that business of manifesting
reality entirely by belief is being handled by the You Who Isn't You.
But don't get the idea that the You Who Isn't You is somebody else!
Nossir! It's You. That's for sure. There's no point in thinking
otherwise. "Don't Think Too Much About What You Believe".

I guess that means something important to you, but I don't think I am
that complex.

Well, of course you're not. You Are Not You at all. And even if you
were, you don't believe you're complex so you can't possibly be.
Besides, how could you be complex if you don't think too hard about
which you is you and which you isn't? See? It's simple. As you say,
just let it go, allow it. Don't think about it, because this tends to
add doubt.

Right now I have a new book teaching Adobe Illustrator, which
I love and want to master. I've been focusing on this a lot and believe, at
some point, I will know enough about it to actually do something productive
with it.

I'm sure not thinking about it will help you there, too. After all,
Adobe Illustrator works just the way you already believe it does, so
now the only thing you have to do is figure out what you already
believe. The book will certainly tell you what you already believe
about Adobe Illustrator and then you'll finally know what you already
believe. "Retroactive Belief".
You obviously don't need any input from me to have a discussion with me...

If you sincerely want a discussion, you might start by learning properly
cite the post you're replying to, so people don't confuse what you're
replying to with what you're saying.

[727]

Post by Tom

Post by Tom
Tom
Let us know when suddenly a full-size castle appears on your lawn.
Carrie
     I don't want one, I like the lawn. I believed nice, green grass would
appear and now all of a sudden it has.

Tom
What an amazing demonstration that you're the ruler of the universe
and commander of the seasons. Of course you're not going to admit,
even to yourself, that you believe in anything that could be
falsifiable. Best not to risk trying to believe in that sort of
thing. You might end up doubting.
That would violate the "Don't Think Too Much About What You Believe"
strategy.

Post by Tom
Carrie
    I didn't say or mean "in my yard". It could have manifested somewhere,
where a castle would fit in and not be noticed.

Tom
Like Windsor Castle in London! Not only did you cause that to come
into being but you made it happen way back a thousand years ago, so
there wouldn't be any uncomfortable discontinuity.

You had me going for a second there.

Had Carrie really moved Windsor castle to London?

Should I join the cosmic ordering service?
http://thecosmicorderingsite.com/

Was Natalie Portman finally to be mine? (I mean the my beliefs v hers
thing's a bit of a minefield.)

A few sips of Earl Grey later I was back with the real world and fairly
chilled about it.

---

dccxxvii

[Tom]

Post by 727
You had me going for a second there.
Had Carrie really moved Windsor castle to London?

She could have. She says manifesting a castle is just like
manifesting a button. She says she manifested a button without
realizing it, so why not Windsor Castle, too?

Post by 727
Should I join the cosmic ordering service?http://thecosmicorderingsite.com/

Does it cost anything?

Post by 727
Was Natalie Portman finally to be mine?

She's got the hots for Thor these days. He's way more buff than that
Skywalker dude.

Post by 727
(I mean the my beliefs v hers
thing's a bit of a minefield.)

But remember, You Are Not You. You want Natalie Portman but you
don't, so you won't have her, unless you do.

Post by 727
A few sips of Earl Grey later I was back with the real world and fairly
chilled about it.

It's probably going to take sipping something stronger than Earl Grey
to resolve this one. Koolaid, perhaps. Don't Think About It.

[Kaydon]

Post by Tom
It's probably going to take sipping something stronger than Earl Grey
to resolve this one.

I like Lady Grey, but some ppl prefer anti freeze:P

<3
xoxoxoxoo

[HG]

Post by Carrie

Post by Kaydon
This excerpt is from chapter 1. The exercise about willing yourself to
fly is nearly as interesting as my atomic explosion experiment, and
just about as big a waste of time ^_^
"1. Visualize a quarter vividly, and imagine vividly that you are
going to find the quarter on the street. Then, look for the quarter
every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it.
See how long it takes you to find the quarter.

Why not do this with a $20 bill? or a $100 bill?

How many $20 or $100 bills have you found on the street?

How many times have you heard of someone finding a $20 or a $100 bill on
the street?


A quarter is a small object. People can walk past a quarter and not
notice it. Not so with large and conspicious paper money. But by all
means, do the experiments twice: once attempting to find coins, once
attempting to find paper money. That should illustrate my point nicely.

Post by Carrie
The only difference is belief.

These exercises by Robert Anton Wilson are designed to teach you about
belief. What it is, how it works, how it doesn't work.

But in order to find this stuff out, you have to *do* the exercises.
Otherwise, it will be just idle speculation.

If you just speculate about the results, you will recieve no benefit
from his instructions. You have to actually *do it* to learn anything.
You have to look for the quarters, adopt those different attitudes while
going to parties, and yes, even attempt to fly as sincerely as possible.


If you just talk about these experiments without doing them, you'll be
like a person who attempts to become physically fit by sitting on their
ass and thinking about exercising.


To recap: The point is not to find the biggest amount of money possible
lying on the street. The point is to learn extremely important and
useful information about belief.


HG

[Carrie]

Post by HG

Post by Carrie

Post by Kaydon
This excerpt is from chapter 1. The exercise about willing yourself to
fly is nearly as interesting as my atomic explosion experiment, and
just about as big a waste of time ^_^
"1. Visualize a quarter vividly, and imagine vividly that you are
going to find the quarter on the street. Then, look for the quarter
every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it.
See how long it takes you to find the quarter.

Why not do this with a $20 bill? or a $100 bill?

How many $20 or $100 bills have you found on the street?
How many times have you heard of someone finding a $20 or a $100 bill on
the street?
A quarter is a small object. People can walk past a quarter and not
notice it. Not so with large and conspicious paper money. But by all
means, do the experiments twice: once attempting to find coins, once
attempting to find paper money. That should illustrate my point nicely.

Post by Carrie
The only difference is belief.

These exercises by Robert Anton Wilson are designed to teach you about
belief. What it is, how it works, how it doesn't work.
But in order to find this stuff out, you have to *do* the exercises.
Otherwise, it will be just idle speculation.
If you just speculate about the results, you will recieve no benefit
from his instructions. You have to actually *do it* to learn anything.
You have to look for the quarters, adopt those different attitudes while
going to parties, and yes, even attempt to fly as sincerely as possible.
If you just talk about these experiments without doing them, you'll be
like a person who attempts to become physically fit by sitting on their
ass and thinking about exercising.
To recap: The point is not to find the biggest amount of money possible
lying on the street. The point is to learn extremely important and
useful information about belief.

And my point about it is, it doesn't matter what you "expect" to find. A
$1 bill and a $100 bill are just pieces of paper. A quarter or a nickle is
just a coin.
What is the point of a dicussion if it's just to point out someone's
faults and how they have it wrong?

Post by HG
HG

[HG]

Post by Carrie

Post by HG

Post by Carrie

Post by Kaydon
This excerpt is from chapter 1. The exercise about willing yourself to
fly is nearly as interesting as my atomic explosion experiment, and
just about as big a waste of time ^_^
"1. Visualize a quarter vividly, and imagine vividly that you are
going to find the quarter on the street. Then, look for the quarter
every time you take a walk, meanwhile continuing to visualize it.
See how long it takes you to find the quarter.

Why not do this with a $20 bill? or a $100 bill?

How many $20 or $100 bills have you found on the street?
How many times have you heard of someone finding a $20 or a $100 bill on
the street?
A quarter is a small object. People can walk past a quarter and not
notice it. Not so with large and conspicious paper money. But by all
means, do the experiments twice: once attempting to find coins, once
attempting to find paper money. That should illustrate my point nicely.

Post by Carrie
The only difference is belief.

These exercises by Robert Anton Wilson are designed to teach you about
belief. What it is, how it works, how it doesn't work.
But in order to find this stuff out, you have to *do* the exercises.
Otherwise, it will be just idle speculation.
If you just speculate about the results, you will recieve no benefit
from his instructions. You have to actually *do it* to learn anything.
You have to look for the quarters, adopt those different attitudes while
going to parties, and yes, even attempt to fly as sincerely as possible.
If you just talk about these experiments without doing them, you'll be
like a person who attempts to become physically fit by sitting on their
ass and thinking about exercising.
To recap: The point is not to find the biggest amount of money possible
lying on the street. The point is to learn extremely important and
useful information about belief.

And my point about it is, it doesn't matter what you "expect" to find. A
$1 bill and a $100 bill are just pieces of paper. A quarter or a nickle is
just a coin.

I don't understand your point at all. And I bet you didn't understand
Robert Anton Wilson's point at all.

Post by Carrie
What is the point of a dicussion if it's just to point out someone's
faults and how they have it wrong?

What is the point of a discussion if it's just a mutual self-
congratulating fest about how wonderful clothes our emperors have?


HG

[mika]

  And my point about it is, it doesn't matter what you "expect" to find. A
$1 bill and a $100 bill are just pieces of paper. A quarter or a nickle is
just a coin.

Yes, it does matter, if you wish to perform this particular
experiment. That's because you are more likely to find a quarter than
a $1 or $100 bill, therefore a quarter is a better tool to use for
this experiment because you need to get *some* results for the
experiment to be meaningful. In other words, you can spend a year
looking for a $100 bill and never find one, thus never have the
opportunity to perform the experiment. If you look for a quarter, you
are likely to find several per day, giving you plenty of opportunities
to test the difference between one belief ("the quarter appeared
because I willed it to appear") and another ("the quarter was always
there, I just found it because I'm paying attention") over short and
meaningful periods of time.

[Mike Duffy]

People can walk past a quarter and not notice it.

There are also some who will notice it and still walk past:

1 - Those who are so rich that it is not worth their bother.
2 - Those who are so busy that it is not worth their time.
3 - Those who are so conceited as to pretend (1) or (2).
4 - Those who are so frail that they don't want to risk injury.
5 - Those who are so fat that they don't want to risk embarassment.
6 - Those who are afraid of losing their toupée.