Do you want to Awaken from the dream?

[Carrie]

I sometimes read the posts (or some of them) on the "Raj" group. Though,
Raj (who says he's the author of ACIM) doesn't really seem to align with
what I believe the course teaches. And I know, I've been told I don't know
what it really means. The write on there about "Awakening" making it seem
like it's something one has to work hard at, and MAKE happen. But, no one
really seems to want this, they like to squabble back and forth and post
pictures and links to YouTube, and things that are very much part of "in the
world". They also see enemies (and Raj has said this too, as in the banning
of some from their group, for the crime of pointing out inconsistencies and
asking questions). But that's another topic, and if the supporters don't
mind it and keep supporting it, that's their choice.
Seems like Raj says that the year 2012 is going to be the year of
Awakening. Once I read "a window of opportunity" (only a window, and since
I doubt everyone is going to "awaken from the dream" and the world go poof
in 2012 people aren't going to go through this window. The course says
everyone has to, or not at all). First of all, "years" (time as we know it)
is man made. People thought something would happen in 2000 and nothing did.
When it gets to be 2012, the Chinese will be ahead of us on another year.
Time is man made and "relative". So, the year 2012 is nothing, unless
enough minds join in creating it as something else.
The idea we will "awaken from the dream" (which the course, to me says
is all or nothing, but Raj has been quoted as saying, 2010 will be a window
of opportunity for some) at a certain time is mentioned at times. Like if we
work hard, and study and TRY we can make it happen.
The point is, does everyone WANT to awaken from the dream? If enough
people join in this, will everyone else be drawn into it without a choice?
I kind of like the world, and don't see anything wrong with that. If
there is no "time" (as we know it) and "only the Love is Real", and we are
told all we are to do is change the dream to a happy dream (and God will do
the rest) why is there a push to "Awaken from the dream"? Some seem to want
this so much and wish it would happen. It's like those who want it can just
choose it, leave the body. If the whole point they have of living in form is
to "Awaken from the dream" (and leave form, as we know it) why bother?
It's like throwing one's life away on the wanting of something, that
would have to involve all, or maybe those who don't agree could or would
be forced into it anyway. Instead of enjoying life in form, and learning,
being open to our Oneness and Oneness with God (even while we have a
physcial experience). And, whatever happens (as to Awakening) just let it
happen, as it will.
Even Paul Tuttle, who channels "Raj" is really into material things.
Over last year, solicited and received (he said) almost a million dollars
for buying a new, bigger, better, more expensise home, and things it needed
and now the moving into it (all of which they spare no expense doing). If he
were going by what Raj says, as to Awkaening from the dream and leaving the
world of form, seems like he'd be downsizing and living more simply, letting
go of the "perks" of the world of illusion (that others are paying for) The
idea of getting more and more in a material way, and "Awakening from the
Dream" (leaving the material world of form.... or maybe realizing it's not
REAL and doesn't matter) doesn't make sense.
As I said, I like the world- illusion or whatever it may be, and plan
to enjoy it, and live in it and experience it as fully as I can, and have
whatever I want in it. And, if others finally do manage (by hard work, and
mainly talking about it) Awaken from the dream. I don't want to go with you.
Since the course says it's all or nothing, and we can't partially "awaken"
(without our brothers) I hope people are too pissed if they try and make
this happen (somehow) in 2012, and others (like me) don't go along with it,
and hold them back.
In the books "Left Behind" the Rapture happens, and the Christians who
were saved are all taken to heaven. I got part way through book 1 and got
bored with it. There were still many people left in the world (non
Christians, not saved) and those left behind were all upset over this, and
trying to find a way to bring them back or join them. I'd have thought they
could just go on with life WITHOUT Christians, and maybe the world would
even be a better, and more peaceful place. Maybe this is what happens, at
the end of the series, which seems very long and drawn out....

[Carrie]

Oh, this is one post I recently read (and tried to understand) that got me
to thinking about "Awakening" and the year 2012.

http://www.nwffacim.org/tgp/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=30429&mid=146052#M146052

Not meant as Raj bashing (though I am on the top of their "enemy list"
because of asking questions and saying things they don't want said, over the
years.... just the idea the group is run by "Jesus" (using a fake name) and
seeing enemies, is to me a contradiction of ACIM. But, doesn't matter what
anyone else does (even Jesus) all I can do is come from me and what I
believe.

Just offered as a possible topic for discussion. The idea "this will
be the last Christmas..." Maybe the author of this post doesn't mean Awkaen
from the Dream and the world go "poof" but to awaken and still be part of a
world, just know what's Real and what isn't and not h ave, or be part of
groups that see and have enemies and shun/ban them?
If the course says it's ALL or nothing and we must know our Oneness
(with each other- the Sonship, and God, the Whole) how does seeing, and
making enemies and banning them from their group (run by Jesus, who has
agreed with this) fit in?
Maybe they are right they do have to work hard at this, and
seeing/learning new ways.
One would think Raj (who has said he is author of ACIM, so thus
"Jesus") would know better though.
Maybe they will manage to Awaken from the dream and leave the world of
form (they don't seem to enjoy all that much) and the rest of us will carry
on without them (LOL)
Anyway... just offered for a topic of possible discussion, and it is
being written about on a public board open for all to read on . Even if all
aren't welcome and free to participate in response.

Post by Carrie
I sometimes read the posts (or some of them) on the "Raj" group.
Though, Raj (who says he's the author of ACIM) doesn't really seem to
align with what I believe the course teaches. And I know, I've been
told I don't know what it really means. The write on there about
"Awakening" making it seem like it's something one has to work hard
at, and MAKE happen. But, no one really seems to want this, they
like to squabble back and forth and post pictures and links to
YouTube, and things that are very much part of "in the world". They
also see enemies (and Raj has said this too, as in the banning of
some from their group, for the crime of pointing out inconsistencies
and asking questions). But that's another topic, and if the
supporters don't mind it and keep supporting it, that's their
choice. Seems like Raj says that the year 2012 is going to be the
year of Awakening. Once I read "a window of opportunity" (only a
window, and since I doubt everyone is going to "awaken from the
dream" and the world go poof in 2012 people aren't going to go
through this window. The course says everyone has to, or not at all).
First of all, "years" (time as we know it) is man made. People
thought something would happen in 2000 and nothing did. When it gets
to be 2012, the Chinese will be ahead of us on another year. Time is
man made and "relative". So, the year 2012 is nothing, unless
enough minds join in creating it as something else. The idea we will
"awaken from the dream" (which the course, to me says
is all or nothing, but Raj has been quoted as saying, 2010 will be a
window of opportunity for some) at a certain time is mentioned at
times. Like if we work hard, and study and TRY we can make it happen.
The point is, does everyone WANT to awaken from the dream? If
enough people join in this, will everyone else be drawn into it
without a choice? I kind of like the world, and don't see
anything wrong with that. If
there is no "time" (as we know it) and "only the Love is Real", and
we are told all we are to do is change the dream to a happy dream
(and God will do the rest) why is there a push to "Awaken from the
dream"? Some seem to want this so much and wish it would happen.
It's like those who want it can just choose it, leave the body. If
the whole point they have of living in form is to "Awaken from the
dream" (and leave form, as we know it) why bother? It's like
throwing one's life away on the wanting of something, that
would have to involve all, or maybe those who don't agree could or
would be forced into it anyway. Instead of enjoying life in form,
and learning, being open to our Oneness and Oneness with God (even
while we have a physcial experience). And, whatever happens (as to
Awakening) just let it happen, as it will.
Even Paul Tuttle, who channels "Raj" is really into material
things. Over last year, solicited and received (he said) almost a
million dollars for buying a new, bigger, better, more expensise
home, and things it needed and now the moving into it (all of which
they spare no expense doing). If he were going by what Raj says, as
to Awkaening from the dream and leaving the world of form, seems like
he'd be downsizing and living more simply, letting go of the "perks"
of the world of illusion (that others are paying for) The idea of
getting more and more in a material way, and "Awakening from the
Dream" (leaving the material world of form.... or maybe realizing
it's not REAL and doesn't matter) doesn't make sense. As I
said, I like the world- illusion or whatever it may be, and plan
to enjoy it, and live in it and experience it as fully as I can, and
have whatever I want in it. And, if others finally do manage (by
hard work, and mainly talking about it) Awaken from the dream. I
don't want to go with you. Since the course says it's all or
nothing, and we can't partially "awaken" (without our brothers) I
hope people are too pissed if they try and make this happen (somehow)
in 2012, and others (like me) don't go along with it, and hold them
back. In the books "Left Behind" the Rapture happens, and the
Christians who
were saved are all taken to heaven. I got part way through book 1 and
got bored with it. There were still many people left in the world (non
Christians, not saved) and those left behind were all upset over
this, and trying to find a way to bring them back or join them. I'd
have thought they could just go on with life WITHOUT Christians, and
maybe the world would even be a better, and more peaceful place.
Maybe this is what happens, at the end of the series, which seems
very long and drawn out....

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
I sometimes read the posts (or some of them) on the "Raj"
group. Though, Raj (who says he's the author of ACIM) doesn't
really seem to align with what I believe the course teaches.
And I know, I've been told I don't know what it really means.
The write on there about "Awakening" making it seem like it's
something one has to work hard at, and MAKE happen. But, no
one really seems to want this, they like to squabble back and
forth and post pictures and links to YouTube, and things that
are very much part of "in the world". They also see enemies
(and Raj has said this too, as in the banning of some from
their group, for the crime of pointing out inconsistencies
and asking questions). But that's another topic, and if the
supporters don't mind it and keep supporting it, that's their
choice. Seems like Raj says that the year 2012 is going to be
the year of Awakening. Once I read "a window of opportunity"
(only a window, and since I doubt everyone is going to "awaken
from the dream" and the world go poof in 2012 people aren't
going to go through this window. The course says everyone has
to, or not at all). First of all, "years" (time as we know it)
is man made. People thought something would happen in 2000 and
nothing did. When it gets to be 2012, the Chinese will be ahead
of us on another year. Time is man made and "relative". So,
the year 2012 is nothing, unless enough minds join in creating
it as something else. The idea we will "awaken from the dream"
(which the course, to me says is all or nothing, but Raj has
been quoted as saying, 2010 will be a window of opportunity for
some) at a certain time is mentioned at times. Like if we work
hard, and study and TRY we can make it happen. The point is,
does everyone WANT to awaken from the dream? If enough people
join in this, will everyone else be drawn into it without a
choice? I kind of like the world, and don't see anything wrong
with that. If there is no "time" (as we know it) and "only the
Love is Real", and we are told all we are to do is change the
dream to a happy dream (and God will do the rest) why is there
a push to "Awaken from the dream"? Some seem to want this so
much and wish it would happen. It's like those who want it can
just choose it, leave the body. If the whole point they have of
living in form is to "Awaken from the dream" (and leave form,
as we know it) why bother? It's like throwing one's life away
on the wanting of something, that would have to involve all, or
maybe those who don't agree could or would be forced into it
anyway. Instead of enjoying life in form, and learning, being
open to our Oneness and Oneness with God (even while we have a
physcial experience). And, whatever happens (as to Awakening)
just let it happen, as it will. Even Paul Tuttle, who channels
"Raj" is really into material things. Over last year, solicited
and received (he said) almost a million dollars for buying a
new, bigger, better, more expensise home, and things it needed
and now the moving into it (all of which they spare no expense
doing). If he were going by what Raj says, as to Awkaening from
the dream and leaving the world of form, seems like he'd be
downsizing and living more simply, letting go of the "perks"
of the world of illusion (that others are paying for) The idea
of getting more and more in a material way, and "Awakening
from the Dream" (leaving the material world of form.... or
maybe realizing it's not REAL and doesn't matter) doesn't make
sense. As I said, I like the world- illusion or whatever it may
be, and plan to enjoy it, and live in it and experience it as
fully as I can, and have whatever I want in it. And, if others
finally do manage (by hard work, and mainly talking about it)
Awaken from the dream. I don't want to go with you. Since
the course says it's all or nothing, and we can't partially
"awaken" (without our brothers) I hope people are too pissed
if they try and make this happen (somehow) in 2012, and others
(like me) don't go along with it, and hold them back. In the
books "Left Behind" the Rapture happens, and the Christians
who were saved are all taken to heaven. I got part way through
book 1 and got bored with it. There were still many people left
in the world (non Christians, not saved) and those left behind
were all upset over this, and trying to find a way to bring
them back or join them. I'd have thought they could just go on
with life WITHOUT Christians, and maybe the world would even be
a better, and more peaceful place. Maybe this is what happens,
at the end of the series, which seems very long and drawn
out....

Good point. I love life. I love eating and fucking and walking
in the woods and playing music and reading and conversation and
making things with my hands and tending a garden and...

This coming awakening from the Earth Dream could be my last, but
I'll be back to help others and because I love the Earth.

All this 2012 stuff is nonsense.


Sid

[Carrie]

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
I sometimes read the posts (or some of them) on the "Raj"
group. Though, Raj (who says he's the author of ACIM) doesn't
really seem to align with what I believe the course teaches.
And I know, I've been told I don't know what it really means.
The write on there about "Awakening" making it seem like it's
something one has to work hard at, and MAKE happen. But, no
one really seems to want this, they like to squabble back and
forth and post pictures and links to YouTube, and things that
are very much part of "in the world". They also see enemies
(and Raj has said this too, as in the banning of some from
their group, for the crime of pointing out inconsistencies
and asking questions). But that's another topic, and if the
supporters don't mind it and keep supporting it, that's their
choice. Seems like Raj says that the year 2012 is going to be
the year of Awakening. Once I read "a window of opportunity"
(only a window, and since I doubt everyone is going to "awaken
from the dream" and the world go poof in 2012 people aren't
going to go through this window. The course says everyone has
to, or not at all). First of all, "years" (time as we know it)
is man made. People thought something would happen in 2000 and
nothing did. When it gets to be 2012, the Chinese will be ahead
of us on another year. Time is man made and "relative". So,
the year 2012 is nothing, unless enough minds join in creating
it as something else. The idea we will "awaken from the dream"
(which the course, to me says is all or nothing, but Raj has
been quoted as saying, 2010 will be a window of opportunity for
some) at a certain time is mentioned at times. Like if we work
hard, and study and TRY we can make it happen. The point is,
does everyone WANT to awaken from the dream? If enough people
join in this, will everyone else be drawn into it without a
choice? I kind of like the world, and don't see anything wrong
with that. If there is no "time" (as we know it) and "only the
Love is Real", and we are told all we are to do is change the
dream to a happy dream (and God will do the rest) why is there
a push to "Awaken from the dream"? Some seem to want this so
much and wish it would happen. It's like those who want it can
just choose it, leave the body. If the whole point they have of
living in form is to "Awaken from the dream" (and leave form,
as we know it) why bother? It's like throwing one's life away
on the wanting of something, that would have to involve all, or
maybe those who don't agree could or would be forced into it
anyway. Instead of enjoying life in form, and learning, being
open to our Oneness and Oneness with God (even while we have a
physcial experience). And, whatever happens (as to Awakening)
just let it happen, as it will. Even Paul Tuttle, who channels
"Raj" is really into material things. Over last year, solicited
and received (he said) almost a million dollars for buying a
new, bigger, better, more expensise home, and things it needed
and now the moving into it (all of which they spare no expense
doing). If he were going by what Raj says, as to Awkaening from
the dream and leaving the world of form, seems like he'd be
downsizing and living more simply, letting go of the "perks"
of the world of illusion (that others are paying for) The idea
of getting more and more in a material way, and "Awakening
from the Dream" (leaving the material world of form.... or
maybe realizing it's not REAL and doesn't matter) doesn't make
sense. As I said, I like the world- illusion or whatever it may
be, and plan to enjoy it, and live in it and experience it as
fully as I can, and have whatever I want in it. And, if others
finally do manage (by hard work, and mainly talking about it)
Awaken from the dream. I don't want to go with you. Since
the course says it's all or nothing, and we can't partially
"awaken" (without our brothers) I hope people are too pissed
if they try and make this happen (somehow) in 2012, and others
(like me) don't go along with it, and hold them back. In the
books "Left Behind" the Rapture happens, and the Christians
who were saved are all taken to heaven. I got part way through
book 1 and got bored with it. There were still many people left
in the world (non Christians, not saved) and those left behind
were all upset over this, and trying to find a way to bring
them back or join them. I'd have thought they could just go on
with life WITHOUT Christians, and maybe the world would even be
a better, and more peaceful place. Maybe this is what happens,
at the end of the series, which seems very long and drawn
out....

Good point. I love life. I love eating and fucking and walking
in the woods and playing music and reading and conversation and
making things with my hands and tending a garden and...
This coming awakening from the Earth Dream could be my last, but
I'll be back to help others and because I love the Earth.
All this 2012 stuff is nonsense.

I agree. Doesn't really matter what "the story" really is (life-
death- what we're HERE for, where is HERE, where do we go from HERE) we are
"here" a the time, and can assume it's for some reason. Even just to enjoy
it. Seems sad to waste one's lifetime (whatever it is for) trying NOT to be
in it. Though, of course, everyone has their own choice in this.
I love the world, too. Even if it is "illusion" we are seeing it as
real and, in a way, probably choosing to be part of it.

Post by Sidney Lambe
Sid

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
I sometimes read the posts (or some of them) on the "Raj"
group. Though, Raj (who says he's the author of ACIM) doesn't
really seem to align with what I believe the course teaches.
And I know, I've been told I don't know what it really means.
The write on there about "Awakening" making it seem like it's
something one has to work hard at, and MAKE happen. But, no
one really seems to want this, they like to squabble back and
forth and post pictures and links to YouTube, and things that
are very much part of "in the world". They also see enemies
(and Raj has said this too, as in the banning of some from
their group, for the crime of pointing out inconsistencies
and asking questions). But that's another topic, and if the
supporters don't mind it and keep supporting it, that's
their choice. Seems like Raj says that the year 2012 is
going to be the year of Awakening. Once I read "a window
of opportunity" (only a window, and since I doubt everyone
is going to "awaken from the dream" and the world go poof
in 2012 people aren't going to go through this window. The
course says everyone has to, or not at all). First of all,
"years" (time as we know it) is man made. People thought
something would happen in 2000 and nothing did. When it
gets to be 2012, the Chinese will be ahead of us on another
year. Time is man made and "relative". So, the year 2012 is
nothing, unless enough minds join in creating it as something
else. The idea we will "awaken from the dream" (which the
course, to me says is all or nothing, but Raj has been quoted
as saying, 2010 will be a window of opportunity for some)
at a certain time is mentioned at times. Like if we work
hard, and study and TRY we can make it happen. The point
is, does everyone WANT to awaken from the dream? If enough
people join in this, will everyone else be drawn into it
without a choice? I kind of like the world, and don't see
anything wrong with that. If there is no "time" (as we know
it) and "only the Love is Real", and we are told all we are
to do is change the dream to a happy dream (and God will do
the rest) why is there a push to "Awaken from the dream"?
Some seem to want this so much and wish it would happen.
It's like those who want it can just choose it, leave the
body. If the whole point they have of living in form is to
"Awaken from the dream" (and leave form, as we know it) why
bother? It's like throwing one's life away on the wanting of
something, that would have to involve all, or maybe those who
don't agree could or would be forced into it anyway. Instead
of enjoying life in form, and learning, being open to our
Oneness and Oneness with God (even while we have a physcial
experience). And, whatever happens (as to Awakening) just let
it happen, as it will. Even Paul Tuttle, who channels "Raj"
is really into material things. Over last year, solicited
and received (he said) almost a million dollars for buying
a new, bigger, better, more expensise home, and things it
needed and now the moving into it (all of which they spare
no expense doing). If he were going by what Raj says, as to
Awkaening from the dream and leaving the world of form, seems
like he'd be downsizing and living more simply, letting go of
the "perks" of the world of illusion (that others are paying
for) The idea of getting more and more in a material way, and
"Awakening from the Dream" (leaving the material world of
form.... or maybe realizing it's not REAL and doesn't matter)
doesn't make sense. As I said, I like the world- illusion
or whatever it may be, and plan to enjoy it, and live in
it and experience it as fully as I can, and have whatever
I want in it. And, if others finally do manage (by hard
work, and mainly talking about it) Awaken from the dream. I
don't want to go with you. Since the course says it's all
or nothing, and we can't partially "awaken" (without our
brothers) I hope people are too pissed if they try and make
this happen (somehow) in 2012, and others (like me) don't go
along with it, and hold them back. In the books "Left Behind"
the Rapture happens, and the Christians who were saved are
all taken to heaven. I got part way through book 1 and got
bored with it. There were still many people left in the world
(non Christians, not saved) and those left behind were all
upset over this, and trying to find a way to bring them back
or join them. I'd have thought they could just go on with
life WITHOUT Christians, and maybe the world would even be a
better, and more peaceful place. Maybe this is what happens,
at the end of the series, which seems very long and drawn
out....

Good point. I love life. I love eating and fucking and walking
in the woods and playing music and reading and conversation
and making things with my hands and tending a garden and...
This coming awakening from the Earth Dream could be my last,
but I'll be back to help others and because I love the Earth.
All this 2012 stuff is nonsense.

I agree. Doesn't really matter what "the story" really is
(life- death- what we're HERE for, where is HERE, where do we
go from HERE) we are "here" a the time, and can assume it's for
some reason. Even just to enjoy it. Seems sad to waste one's
lifetime (whatever it is for) trying NOT to be in it. Though,
of course, everyone has their own choice in this. I love the
world, too. Even if it is "illusion" we are seeing it as real
and, in a way, probably choosing to be part of it.

We chose experience in this realm. We chose the times and places
of our birth and our parents and siblings and the general course
of our entire life. The necessary challenges and our strengths
and weaknesses are well-known in advance.

All young consciousnesses have to experience their first
'objective' reality as if it was the only one.

The first step in awakening from The Dream while alive is
realizing that this reality is anything but independent of other
realms of activity that are _not_ visible to the physical senses

"The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." --Jesus

But 'awakening from the Dream' is not something you do all the
time. You can't deal with or enjoy life in that state. You just
dip into your inner self when you need to. During meditation
times. While asleep.

Something got screwed up in ACIM. I think the material
was tainted by the transchannel's addiction to hardcore
fundamentalist Christianity.

We are not supposed to deny life, we are supposed to embrace it.
Perfect it. The body is the Spirit in flesh. Our real mission
here is to create an Earthly paradise.

When we've done that we can move on to the real Paradise. Which,
like this existence, will be our own creation.

Sid

[Carrie]

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
I sometimes read the posts (or some of them) on the "Raj"
group. Though, Raj (who says he's the author of ACIM) doesn't
really seem to align with what I believe the course teaches.
And I know, I've been told I don't know what it really means.
The write on there about "Awakening" making it seem like it's
something one has to work hard at, and MAKE happen. But, no
one really seems to want this, they like to squabble back and
forth and post pictures and links to YouTube, and things that
are very much part of "in the world". They also see enemies
(and Raj has said this too, as in the banning of some from
their group, for the crime of pointing out inconsistencies
and asking questions). But that's another topic, and if the
supporters don't mind it and keep supporting it, that's
their choice. Seems like Raj says that the year 2012 is
going to be the year of Awakening. Once I read "a window
of opportunity" (only a window, and since I doubt everyone
is going to "awaken from the dream" and the world go poof
in 2012 people aren't going to go through this window. The
course says everyone has to, or not at all). First of all,
"years" (time as we know it) is man made. People thought
something would happen in 2000 and nothing did. When it
gets to be 2012, the Chinese will be ahead of us on another
year. Time is man made and "relative". So, the year 2012 is
nothing, unless enough minds join in creating it as something
else. The idea we will "awaken from the dream" (which the
course, to me says is all or nothing, but Raj has been quoted
as saying, 2010 will be a window of opportunity for some)
at a certain time is mentioned at times. Like if we work
hard, and study and TRY we can make it happen. The point
is, does everyone WANT to awaken from the dream? If enough
people join in this, will everyone else be drawn into it
without a choice? I kind of like the world, and don't see
anything wrong with that. If there is no "time" (as we know
it) and "only the Love is Real", and we are told all we are
to do is change the dream to a happy dream (and God will do
the rest) why is there a push to "Awaken from the dream"?
Some seem to want this so much and wish it would happen.
It's like those who want it can just choose it, leave the
body. If the whole point they have of living in form is to
"Awaken from the dream" (and leave form, as we know it) why
bother? It's like throwing one's life away on the wanting of
something, that would have to involve all, or maybe those who
don't agree could or would be forced into it anyway. Instead
of enjoying life in form, and learning, being open to our
Oneness and Oneness with God (even while we have a physcial
experience). And, whatever happens (as to Awakening) just let
it happen, as it will. Even Paul Tuttle, who channels "Raj"
is really into material things. Over last year, solicited
and received (he said) almost a million dollars for buying
a new, bigger, better, more expensise home, and things it
needed and now the moving into it (all of which they spare
no expense doing). If he were going by what Raj says, as to
Awkaening from the dream and leaving the world of form, seems
like he'd be downsizing and living more simply, letting go of
the "perks" of the world of illusion (that others are paying
for) The idea of getting more and more in a material way, and
"Awakening from the Dream" (leaving the material world of
form.... or maybe realizing it's not REAL and doesn't matter)
doesn't make sense. As I said, I like the world- illusion
or whatever it may be, and plan to enjoy it, and live in
it and experience it as fully as I can, and have whatever
I want in it. And, if others finally do manage (by hard
work, and mainly talking about it) Awaken from the dream. I
don't want to go with you. Since the course says it's all
or nothing, and we can't partially "awaken" (without our
brothers) I hope people are too pissed if they try and make
this happen (somehow) in 2012, and others (like me) don't go
along with it, and hold them back. In the books "Left Behind"
the Rapture happens, and the Christians who were saved are
all taken to heaven. I got part way through book 1 and got
bored with it. There were still many people left in the world
(non Christians, not saved) and those left behind were all
upset over this, and trying to find a way to bring them back
or join them. I'd have thought they could just go on with
life WITHOUT Christians, and maybe the world would even be a
better, and more peaceful place. Maybe this is what happens,
at the end of the series, which seems very long and drawn
out....

Good point. I love life. I love eating and fucking and walking
in the woods and playing music and reading and conversation
and making things with my hands and tending a garden and...
This coming awakening from the Earth Dream could be my last,
but I'll be back to help others and because I love the Earth.
All this 2012 stuff is nonsense.

I agree. Doesn't really matter what "the story" really is
(life- death- what we're HERE for, where is HERE, where do we
go from HERE) we are "here" a the time, and can assume it's for
some reason. Even just to enjoy it. Seems sad to waste one's
lifetime (whatever it is for) trying NOT to be in it. Though,
of course, everyone has their own choice in this. I love the
world, too. Even if it is "illusion" we are seeing it as real
and, in a way, probably choosing to be part of it.

We chose experience in this realm. We chose the times and places
of our birth and our parents and siblings and the general course
of our entire life. The necessary challenges and our strengths
and weaknesses are well-known in advance.
All young consciousnesses have to experience their first
'objective' reality as if it was the only one.
The first step in awakening from The Dream while alive is
realizing that this reality is anything but independent of other
realms of activity that are _not_ visible to the physical senses
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." --Jesus
But 'awakening from the Dream' is not something you do all the
time. You can't deal with or enjoy life in that state. You just
dip into your inner self when you need to. During meditation
times. While asleep.
Something got screwed up in ACIM. I think the material
was tainted by the transchannel's addiction to hardcore
fundamentalist Christianity.
We are not supposed to deny life, we are supposed to embrace it.
Perfect it. The body is the Spirit in flesh. Our real mission
here is to create an Earthly paradise.
When we've done that we can move on to the real Paradise. Which,
like this existence, will be our own creation.
Sid

Well, the course was edited before it was first published. They wanted to
make it more acceptable for the masses I think.
If you read the original version (one is called "the Urtext") it's much
different.
And, of course, people reading it interpret it, perceive it, and make it
into what they think it is and means. Whether they then try and live it, or
just use it to see if everyone else is living it the way they have decided
it should be.
Which is sort of what I mean by everone having their own interpretation
and perception of something, and to them, this is "true".
If I were to try and change this and get "them" to believe the exact
way I do, I'd be doing the same thing. I always think it's clear (though
usually doesn't come across that way) what I write about is my opinions,
beliefs, feelings about something. Everyone else is, of course, free to have
theirs, and doesn't mean I am saying I am right and then are wrong. Just
sharing in a discussion.
Jesus is quoted as saying "Seek first the Kingdom" (or feeling of
connection to Source). Also, that whatever he did (seemed to do) anyone
could do it, through the Power within.
I n ever got the idea Jesus was saying we couldn't experience life,
and live in it, just know that on some level it's not ALL there is. And
don't stress all the many petty, picky little things that really don't
matter. Doing this, *I* am the one who benefits from it. The course has a
line "All that I give is given to myself". I am the one who feels good, or
bad, depending on the choices I make.
To me, the only way to experience ACIM and get something from it (in a
good way) is to read it- listen to it, whatever and decide for oneself what
it means. Not look "out there" and see how others are doing it, believing
it, and using it for. Once we do this, it changes it automatically.
Even various forms of "Jesus" that people believe in, and agree with.
Which, to me, aren't living what I believe the course says. Just projections
from the minds of those who want to believe in a "Jesus" that justifies and
backs up how they are.
No big deal, just a choice.

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
I sometimes read the posts (or some of them) on the "Raj"
group. Though, Raj (who says he's the author of ACIM)
doesn't really seem to align with what I believe the course
teaches. And I know, I've been told I don't know what it
really means. The write on there about "Awakening" making
it seem like it's something one has to work hard at, and
MAKE happen. But, no one really seems to want this, they
like to squabble back and forth and post pictures and links
to YouTube, and things that are very much part of "in the
world". They also see enemies (and Raj has said this too,
as in the banning of some from their group, for the crime
of pointing out inconsistencies and asking questions). But
that's another topic, and if the supporters don't mind it
and keep supporting it, that's their choice. Seems like
Raj says that the year 2012 is going to be the year of
Awakening. Once I read "a window of opportunity" (only a
window, and since I doubt everyone is going to "awaken from
the dream" and the world go poof in 2012 people aren't
going to go through this window. The course says everyone
has to, or not at all). First of all, "years" (time as we
know it) is man made. People thought something would happen
in 2000 and nothing did. When it gets to be 2012, the
Chinese will be ahead of us on another year. Time is man
made and "relative". So, the year 2012 is nothing, unless
enough minds join in creating it as something else. The
idea we will "awaken from the dream" (which the course,
to me says is all or nothing, but Raj has been quoted as
saying, 2010 will be a window of opportunity for some) at a
certain time is mentioned at times. Like if we work hard,
and study and TRY we can make it happen. The point is, does
everyone WANT to awaken from the dream? If enough people
join in this, will everyone else be drawn into it without
a choice? I kind of like the world, and don't see anything
wrong with that. If there is no "time" (as we know it) and
"only the Love is Real", and we are told all we are to
do is change the dream to a happy dream (and God will do
the rest) why is there a push to "Awaken from the dream"?
Some seem to want this so much and wish it would happen.
It's like those who want it can just choose it, leave the
body. If the whole point they have of living in form is
to "Awaken from the dream" (and leave form, as we know
it) why bother? It's like throwing one's life away on the
wanting of something, that would have to involve all, or
maybe those who don't agree could or would be forced into
it anyway. Instead of enjoying life in form, and learning,
being open to our Oneness and Oneness with God (even while
we have a physcial experience). And, whatever happens
(as to Awakening) just let it happen, as it will. Even
Paul Tuttle, who channels "Raj" is really into material
things. Over last year, solicited and received (he said)
almost a million dollars for buying a new, bigger, better,
more expensise home, and things it needed and now the
moving into it (all of which they spare no expense doing).
If he were going by what Raj says, as to Awkaening from
the dream and leaving the world of form, seems like he'd
be downsizing and living more simply, letting go of the
"perks" of the world of illusion (that others are paying
for) The idea of getting more and more in a material way,
and "Awakening from the Dream" (leaving the material world
of form.... or maybe realizing it's not REAL and doesn't
matter) doesn't make sense. As I said, I like the world-
illusion or whatever it may be, and plan to enjoy it, and
live in it and experience it as fully as I can, and have
whatever I want in it. And, if others finally do manage
(by hard work, and mainly talking about it) Awaken from
the dream. I don't want to go with you. Since the course
says it's all or nothing, and we can't partially "awaken"
(without our brothers) I hope people are too pissed if they
try and make this happen (somehow) in 2012, and others
(like me) don't go along with it, and hold them back.
In the books "Left Behind" the Rapture happens, and the
Christians who were saved are all taken to heaven. I got
part way through book 1 and got bored with it. There were
still many people left in the world (non Christians, not
saved) and those left behind were all upset over this,
and trying to find a way to bring them back or join them.
I'd have thought they could just go on with life WITHOUT
Christians, and maybe the world would even be a better, and
more peaceful place. Maybe this is what happens, at the end
of the series, which seems very long and drawn out....

Good point. I love life. I love eating and fucking and
walking in the woods and playing music and reading and
conversation and making things with my hands and tending a
garden and...
This coming awakening from the Earth Dream could be my last,
but I'll be back to help others and because I love the
Earth.
All this 2012 stuff is nonsense.

I agree. Doesn't really matter what "the story" really
is (life- death- what we're HERE for, where is HERE, where
do we go from HERE) we are "here" a the time, and can assume
it's for some reason. Even just to enjoy it. Seems sad to
waste one's lifetime (whatever it is for) trying NOT to be in
it. Though, of course, everyone has their own choice in this.
I love the world, too. Even if it is "illusion" we are seeing
it as real and, in a way, probably choosing to be part of it.

We chose experience in this realm. We chose the times and
places of our birth and our parents and siblings and the
general course of our entire life. The necessary challenges
and our strengths and weaknesses are well-known in advance.
All young consciousnesses have to experience their first
'objective' reality as if it was the only one.
The first step in awakening from The Dream while alive is
realizing that this reality is anything but independent
of other realms of activity that are _not_ visible to the
physical senses
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." --Jesus
But 'awakening from the Dream' is not something you do all
the time. You can't deal with or enjoy life in that state.
You just dip into your inner self when you need to. During
meditation times. While asleep.
Something got screwed up in ACIM. I think the material
was tainted by the transchannel's addiction to hardcore
fundamentalist Christianity.
We are not supposed to deny life, we are supposed to embrace
it. Perfect it. The body is the Spirit in flesh. Our real
mission here is to create an Earthly paradise.
When we've done that we can move on to the real Paradise.
Which, like this existence, will be our own creation.
Sid

Well, the course was edited before it was first published.
They wanted to make it more acceptable for the masses I
think.

Yeh. ACIM lite. Stinks.

Post by Carrie
If you read the original version (one is called "the Urtext")
it's much different. And, of course, people reading it
interpret it, perceive it, and make it into what they think it
is and means. Whether they then try and live it, or just use it
to see if everyone else is living it the way they have decided
it should be. Which is sort of what I mean by everone having
their own interpretation and perception of something, and to
them, this is "true".

This only applies to those things we have control over.
The Truth is about things that don't change regardless
of our beliefs and actions.

Carrie, you REALLY have to get over this stupid idea that
the individual creates every aspect of their own reality.
It is so obviously not so.

I have just dumped all of your other posts here and now. I
am not reading 3000 words watching your pathetic attempts
to believe superstitious, airy-fairy, fluffy-bunny,
new-age sewage.


Sid

[Carrie]

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
I sometimes read the posts (or some of them) on the "Raj"
group. Though, Raj (who says he's the author of ACIM)
doesn't really seem to align with what I believe the course
teaches. And I know, I've been told I don't know what it
really means. The write on there about "Awakening" making
it seem like it's something one has to work hard at, and
MAKE happen. But, no one really seems to want this, they
like to squabble back and forth and post pictures and links
to YouTube, and things that are very much part of "in the
world". They also see enemies (and Raj has said this too,
as in the banning of some from their group, for the crime
of pointing out inconsistencies and asking questions). But
that's another topic, and if the supporters don't mind it
and keep supporting it, that's their choice. Seems like
Raj says that the year 2012 is going to be the year of
Awakening. Once I read "a window of opportunity" (only a
window, and since I doubt everyone is going to "awaken from
the dream" and the world go poof in 2012 people aren't
going to go through this window. The course says everyone
has to, or not at all). First of all, "years" (time as we
know it) is man made. People thought something would happen
in 2000 and nothing did. When it gets to be 2012, the
Chinese will be ahead of us on another year. Time is man
made and "relative". So, the year 2012 is nothing, unless
enough minds join in creating it as something else. The
idea we will "awaken from the dream" (which the course,
to me says is all or nothing, but Raj has been quoted as
saying, 2010 will be a window of opportunity for some) at a
certain time is mentioned at times. Like if we work hard,
and study and TRY we can make it happen. The point is, does
everyone WANT to awaken from the dream? If enough people
join in this, will everyone else be drawn into it without
a choice? I kind of like the world, and don't see anything
wrong with that. If there is no "time" (as we know it) and
"only the Love is Real", and we are told all we are to
do is change the dream to a happy dream (and God will do
the rest) why is there a push to "Awaken from the dream"?
Some seem to want this so much and wish it would happen.
It's like those who want it can just choose it, leave the
body. If the whole point they have of living in form is
to "Awaken from the dream" (and leave form, as we know
it) why bother? It's like throwing one's life away on the
wanting of something, that would have to involve all, or
maybe those who don't agree could or would be forced into
it anyway. Instead of enjoying life in form, and learning,
being open to our Oneness and Oneness with God (even while
we have a physcial experience). And, whatever happens
(as to Awakening) just let it happen, as it will. Even
Paul Tuttle, who channels "Raj" is really into material
things. Over last year, solicited and received (he said)
almost a million dollars for buying a new, bigger, better,
more expensise home, and things it needed and now the
moving into it (all of which they spare no expense doing).
If he were going by what Raj says, as to Awkaening from
the dream and leaving the world of form, seems like he'd
be downsizing and living more simply, letting go of the
"perks" of the world of illusion (that others are paying
for) The idea of getting more and more in a material way,
and "Awakening from the Dream" (leaving the material world
of form.... or maybe realizing it's not REAL and doesn't
matter) doesn't make sense. As I said, I like the world-
illusion or whatever it may be, and plan to enjoy it, and
live in it and experience it as fully as I can, and have
whatever I want in it. And, if others finally do manage
(by hard work, and mainly talking about it) Awaken from
the dream. I don't want to go with you. Since the course
says it's all or nothing, and we can't partially "awaken"
(without our brothers) I hope people are too pissed if they
try and make this happen (somehow) in 2012, and others
(like me) don't go along with it, and hold them back.
In the books "Left Behind" the Rapture happens, and the
Christians who were saved are all taken to heaven. I got
part way through book 1 and got bored with it. There were
still many people left in the world (non Christians, not
saved) and those left behind were all upset over this,
and trying to find a way to bring them back or join them.
I'd have thought they could just go on with life WITHOUT
Christians, and maybe the world would even be a better, and
more peaceful place. Maybe this is what happens, at the end
of the series, which seems very long and drawn out....

Good point. I love life. I love eating and fucking and
walking in the woods and playing music and reading and
conversation and making things with my hands and tending a
garden and...
This coming awakening from the Earth Dream could be my last,
but I'll be back to help others and because I love the
Earth.
All this 2012 stuff is nonsense.

I agree. Doesn't really matter what "the story" really
is (life- death- what we're HERE for, where is HERE, where
do we go from HERE) we are "here" a the time, and can assume
it's for some reason. Even just to enjoy it. Seems sad to
waste one's lifetime (whatever it is for) trying NOT to be in
it. Though, of course, everyone has their own choice in this.
I love the world, too. Even if it is "illusion" we are seeing
it as real and, in a way, probably choosing to be part of it.

We chose experience in this realm. We chose the times and
places of our birth and our parents and siblings and the
general course of our entire life. The necessary challenges
and our strengths and weaknesses are well-known in advance.
All young consciousnesses have to experience their first
'objective' reality as if it was the only one.
The first step in awakening from The Dream while alive is
realizing that this reality is anything but independent
of other realms of activity that are _not_ visible to the
physical senses
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." --Jesus
But 'awakening from the Dream' is not something you do all
the time. You can't deal with or enjoy life in that state.
You just dip into your inner self when you need to. During
meditation times. While asleep.
Something got screwed up in ACIM. I think the material
was tainted by the transchannel's addiction to hardcore
fundamentalist Christianity.
We are not supposed to deny life, we are supposed to embrace
it. Perfect it. The body is the Spirit in flesh. Our real
mission here is to create an Earthly paradise.
When we've done that we can move on to the real Paradise.
Which, like this existence, will be our own creation.
Sid

Well, the course was edited before it was first published.
They wanted to make it more acceptable for the masses I
think.

Yeh. ACIM lite. Stinks.

Post by Carrie
If you read the original version (one is called "the Urtext")
it's much different. And, of course, people reading it
interpret it, perceive it, and make it into what they think it
is and means. Whether they then try and live it, or just use it
to see if everyone else is living it the way they have decided
it should be. Which is sort of what I mean by everone having
their own interpretation and perception of something, and to
them, this is "true".

This only applies to those things we have control over.
The Truth is about things that don't change regardless
of our beliefs and actions.
Carrie, you REALLY have to get over this stupid idea that
the individual creates every aspect of their own reality.
It is so obviously not so.
I have just dumped all of your other posts here and now. I
am not reading 3000 words watching your pathetic attempts
to believe superstitious, airy-fairy, fluffy-bunny,
new-age sewage.

So dump and don't read.
Why bother telling me the same stuff over and over?
Since you keep doing this, every time I try and have a dicussion with
you, I should be asking myself the same thing.

Post by Sidney Lambe
Sid