Discussion:
post from The Raj group
(too old to reply)
Carrie
2010-05-14 14:45:35 UTC
Permalink
http://www.nwffacim.org/tgp/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29466&mid=142331#M142331

I still check in now and then and sometimes find "good stuff" like this.
Mike
2010-05-15 17:11:08 UTC
Permalink
 http://www.nwffacim.org/tgp/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29466&mid=1423...
   I still check in now and then and sometimes find "good stuff" like this.
How can we determine whether proliferation occurred in any of the
structures of MacLean's triune brain? Let's take, for example, the
septo-hippocampal system. MacLean's model predicts that this structure
will be absent in sauropsidia (birds and reptiles), amphibia and
fishes, and present in early mammals (or proxies for those, such as
insectivores) and extant mammalian species. However, it can be
demonstrated that the lateral pallium of anamniotes present field
homology with the hippocampus of amniotes. This observation, alone, is
not enough to repel the possibility of proliferation of hippocampal
structures in the phylogenetic series; however, the fact that a clear
one-to-one homologue of hippocampus exists in birds is enough to
dismiss MacLean's model, at least for this character. The medial
pallium of teleosts and the DVR of sauropsids was proposed as
homologous to the tetrapod amygdala (Braford, 1995; Striedter, 1997;
Butler, 2000); if this hypothesis is true, we have yet another
structure whose evolution does not fit MacLean's model. Thus, the
limbic structures that the triune brain theory predicts to be first
present only in early mammals were found in nonmammalian vertebrates,
dismissing in toto the model. As a side note, homologues of
neocortical and dorsal thalamic nuclei were also found in nonmammals,
which testifies against the hypothesis that they should be first
present only in extant mammals. It should also be noted, as Butler and
Hodos (2005) put it, that

MacLean's observations on the behavioral differences between mammals
and nonmammals are oversimplified and ignore the elaborate social and
parental behaviors of some nonmammalian vertebrates, including birds
and a variety of ray-finned fishes (p. 114).

And so, from what I can tell, the only "good stuff" from the Raj group
is still to be discovered.
Carrie
2010-05-15 22:23:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
http://www.nwffacim.org/tgp/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29466&mid=1423...
I still check in now and then and sometimes find "good stuff" like this.
How can we determine whether proliferation occurred in any of the
structures of MacLean's triune brain? Let's take, for example, the
septo-hippocampal system. MacLean's model predicts that this structure
will be absent in sauropsidia (birds and reptiles), amphibia and
fishes, and present in early mammals (or proxies for those, such as
insectivores) and extant mammalian species. However, it can be
demonstrated that the lateral pallium of anamniotes present field
homology with the hippocampus of amniotes. This observation, alone, is
not enough to repel the possibility of proliferation of hippocampal
structures in the phylogenetic series; however, the fact that a clear
one-to-one homologue of hippocampus exists in birds is enough to
dismiss MacLean's model, at least for this character. The medial
pallium of teleosts and the DVR of sauropsids was proposed as
homologous to the tetrapod amygdala (Braford, 1995; Striedter, 1997;
Butler, 2000); if this hypothesis is true, we have yet another
structure whose evolution does not fit MacLean's model. Thus, the
limbic structures that the triune brain theory predicts to be first
present only in early mammals were found in nonmammalian vertebrates,
dismissing in toto the model. As a side note, homologues of
neocortical and dorsal thalamic nuclei were also found in nonmammals,
which testifies against the hypothesis that they should be first
present only in extant mammals. It should also be noted, as Butler and
Hodos (2005) put it, that
MacLean's observations on the behavioral differences between mammals
and nonmammals are oversimplified and ignore the elaborate social and
parental behaviors of some nonmammalian vertebrates, including birds
and a variety of ray-finned fishes (p. 114).
And so, from what I can tell, the only "good stuff" from the Raj group
is still to be discovered.
I have come to look for the positive, no matter how small. At least
I attempt this, when I remember it.
I also keep coming to this newsgroup looking for possible discussion.
You seem to have added to the discussion but I'm not sure what you are
saying or what the point is (LOL)
I like the idea of "feeling things" with one's heart, and thus knowing
if we are in Right Mind (Spirit/Love) or closed off, ego, at any given time.
Going by our feelings, which seem to be "in the heart".
But, a discussion is still sharing and communication and can be
joining, in itself.

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