off topic --- Conversations with Timothy Nash

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

jeanette "Interestingly enough, when I began to have a forgiving
attitude with Alan, and Mike, and began writing to those who found Ken
of value in their life, Tom disapproved."

~ Not true. That's another figment of your imagination. I was quite
relieved when you gave up your vendetta against Mike. You were
looking quite foolish.

Not true. And I don't care. You complained I offered Mike forgiveness, and
none for you. You were the one who jumped up out of bed in order to delete
Mike's messages from your discussion site.

And you continue with your grievance. I offer you: Tasmaniacs.

You were not happy with any of my relationships with those who found Ken of
value. A great part of your relationship with Carmen is your shared
grievance with Ken and the Foundation.

Jeanette " . . . Gene would defend anything . . . Tom [does]
based solely upon this nonverbal pact."

~ A bare-faced assertion without any basis in fact.

It's true. And well evidenced on the ng, and stated by many besides myself.
You seem to think people are blind, deaf, and dumb, as to what you, Gene,
and John, are doing and have done. Honk! Honk!

Jeanette "And I think Mike is right. Tom fears that I am a direct
witness of what he has done."

~ Uh . . . no. Sorry to deflate your egoistic fantasy of being
fearsome. Mike was fishing, and you took the bait.

~ If you think you've got something, the phone number for the FBI
field office in Louisville is 502-583-3941.

What, and be like you?


Jeanette

[Tomaso]

Jeanette "You complained I offered Mike forgiveness, and
none for you."

~ Nope.

Jeanette "You were the one who jumped up out of bed in order to delete
Mike's messages from your discussion site."

~ Carmen was co-moderator on that board, and she stays up much later
than me. Your fantasy world has nothing to do with my reality.

Jeanette "And you continue with your grievance. I offer you:
Tasmaniacs."

HDD - You suffer from Humor Deficit Disorder. LOL!

Jeanette "You were not happy with any of my relationships with those
who found Ken of value."

~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that Ellen is a
pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?

Jeanette "A great part of your relationship with Carmen is your shared
grievance with Ken and the Foundation."

~ Ha, ha, ha. I've known Carmen for over 10 years, and we didn't even
know Ken existed until 1999. My relationship with Carmen is much
richer and deeper than you can even imagine. She is a fine woman.

Jeanette " . . . Gene would defend anything . . . Tom [does]
based solely upon this nonverbal pact."

I wrote "A bare-faced assertion without any basis in fact."

Jeanette "It's true. And well evidenced on the ng . . . "

~ So, where's the evidence? LOL!

Jeanette " . . . and stated by many besides myself."

~ Name one.

Jeanette "You seem to think people are blind, deaf, and dumb, as to
what you, Gene, and John, are doing and have done."

~ You seem to think that people share your delusions. Quack!

~ What have Gene, John and I done or are doing? Put your wild
accusations into words, if you can.

Jeanette "And I think Mike is right. Tom fears that I am a direct
witness of what he has done."

I wrote "Uh . . . no. Sorry to deflate your egoistic fantasy of
being fearsome. Mike was fishing, and you took the bait. If you
think you've got something, the phone number for the FBI
field office in Louisville is 502-583-3941."

Jeanette "What, and be like you?"

~ Uh . . no. I know better than to lie to the FBI . . . but maybe you
do too. LOL!

~ You're talk is empty.

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[Tomaso]

Jeanette "You were not happy with any of my relationships with those
who found Ken of value."

I wrote " Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that Ellen
is a pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?"


~ Yep, "sad and pathetic" is how you described Ellen.

~ You also described the other nurses you work with as "lazy asses,"
and the Vietnam Veteran Doctor you work with as "psychotic."

~ But you paint a very different picture here on the newsgroup, don't
you.

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

"~ Yep, "sad and pathetic" is how you described Ellen.

~ You also described the other nurses you work with as "lazy asses,"
and the Vietnam Veteran Doctor you work with as "psychotic."

~ But you paint a very different picture here on the newsgroup, don't
you."

The Doctor I work with and I have an excellent working relationship now. I
did call him psychotic. He constantly had his hands all over me, and spoke
in matters which disturbed me. I have spoken of this experience explicitly
on TGP. My own self-forgiveness changed the relationship.

And your viewpoint of nursing, and what I relayed to you, isn't at all what
you portray.

And my absolute apology to ellen for my past relationship with her, my
erroneous thoughts, and hideous conclusions. Although Tom has certainly
embellished the facts of the matter here, I do apologize from my heart to
you.

My relationship with ellen has completely changed, and I am grateful for her
willingness to accept my amends. I hope she continues to do so. I am more
than willing to continue to engage a forgiving and loving sisterhood with
her.


Jeanette

[ellen]

Post by Jeanette
And my absolute apology to ellen for my past relationship with

her, my

Post by Jeanette
erroneous thoughts, and hideous conclusions. Although Tom has

certainly

Post by Jeanette
embellished the facts of the matter here, I do apologize from

my heart to

Post by Jeanette
you.

The sincerity of your apology long ago could not be mistaken
Jeanette. Our forgiveness in this relationship continues to
grow.

Post by Jeanette
My relationship with ellen has completely changed, and I am

grateful for her

Post by Jeanette
willingness to accept my amends. I hope she continues to do

so. I am more

Post by Jeanette
than willing to continue to engage a forgiving and loving

sisterhood with

Post by Jeanette
her.

I Love you Jeanette. Nothing will ever change that. The past
is over. It never even happened. Keep your focus, Love, on the
Now.

ellen

[Jeanette]

"ellen" <***@msn.com> wrote in message news:bp0ipc$1iuacn$***@ID-126618.news.uni-berlin.de...

"I Love you Jeanette. Nothing will ever change that. The past
is over. It never even happened. Keep your focus, Love, on the
Now."

Well, you are the second person who has told me that today.

I'm listening to wise Guidance, and accepting the Holy Spirit in my mind,
more and more, it seems.

Thank You for your tolerance, your patience, your willingness, your
understanding.


Jeanette

[ellen]

Post by Jeanette
"I Love you Jeanette. Nothing will ever change that. The

past

Post by Jeanette
is over. It never even happened. Keep your focus, Love, on

the

Post by Jeanette
Now."
Well, you are the second person who has told me that today.
I'm listening to wise Guidance, and accepting the Holy Spirit

in my mind,

Post by Jeanette
more and more, it seems.
Thank You for your tolerance, your patience, your willingness,

your

Post by Jeanette
understanding.
Jeanette

You're welcome Jeanette. I am just a mirror, Love.

ellen

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette
"I Love you Jeanette. Nothing will ever change that. The past
is over. It never even happened. Keep your focus, Love, on the
Now."
Well, you are the second person who has told me that today.
I'm listening to wise Guidance, and accepting the Holy Spirit in my mind,
more and more, it seems.
Thank You for your tolerance, your patience, your willingness, your
understanding.
Jeanette

Can we (anyone) love you, AND Tom and Carmen and others?

Does there have to be sides involved in love?

Even if one can see there are sides and everyone has their own feelings
and beliefs, does this have to involve Love?

~ Carrie

[Nancy Lorieau]

Post by Carrie
Can we (anyone) love you, AND Tom and Carmen and others?
Does there have to be sides involved in love?

One easy way to facilitate this is to avoid the Thomaso/Jeanette
interchanges.

Both have a lot of value to share but, apparently, not with each other.
(imo) ;-)

Love...

n.

[Jeanette]

"Nancy Lorieau" <***@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:jOQsb.384738$***@pd7tw2no...
"One easy way to facilitate this is to avoid the Thomaso/Jeanette
interchanges.

Both have a lot of value to share but, apparently, not with each other.
(imo) ;-)"

That's why I label them "off topic."

I tried to communicate with Tom many times. Tom's viewpoint, as he stated to
me over and over again, is communication isn't necessary in relationships at
all. Silence is more appropriate, he says.

I find what I am doing here to serve some good.


Jeanette

[www.dr4baxs.com]

jeanette wrote:I find what I am doing here to serve some good.>>>

sv: I still don't understand how or who it serves in a good way. sheryl

[ellen]

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
jeanette wrote:I find what I am doing here to serve some

good.>>>

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
sv: I still don't understand how or who it serves in a good

way. sheryl

Do we need to, Sheryl? Bringing our unhealed thoughts out into
the open can look very messy. But once exposed, who knows the
outcome? This is where patience, trust and open-mindedness can
be helpful. It allows for us to wait and see. There is no rush
on this, since love waits on welcome, not on time. One moment
of welcome can heal eons of fear and hate. We can know that it
is done and leave it be as it is ... for now ... within the
illusion. :)))

I think Jeanette and Tom are doing a great service here.

ellen

[www.dr4baxs.com]

ellen wrote: I think Jeanette and Tom are doing a great service here.<<<

sv: well yeah, if you like wallowing in the mud. ;) Sheryl

[Carrie]

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
ellen wrote: I think Jeanette and Tom are doing a great service here.<<<
sv: well yeah, if you like wallowing in the mud. ;) Sheryl

Some of the classiest and most expensive spas in the world offer mud baths
(LOL)

People pay a lot to wallow in them.

One person's dirt, is another's cleansing.

~ Carrie

[ellen]

Post by Carrie

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
ellen wrote: I think Jeanette and Tom are doing a great

service here.<<<

Post by Carrie

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
sv: well yeah, if you like wallowing in the mud. ;) Sheryl

Some of the classiest and most expensive spas in the world

offer mud baths

Post by Carrie
(LOL)
People pay a lot to wallow in them.
One person's dirt, is another's cleansing.
~ Carrie

Beautiful insight Carrie :))

ellen

[Carrie]

Post by www.dr4baxs.com

Post by Carrie

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
ellen wrote: I think Jeanette and Tom are doing a great

service here.<<<

Post by Carrie

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
sv: well yeah, if you like wallowing in the mud. ;) Sheryl

Some of the classiest and most expensive spas in the world

offer mud baths

Post by Carrie
(LOL)
People pay a lot to wallow in them.
One person's dirt, is another's cleansing.
~ Carrie

Beautiful insight Carrie :))
ellen

Of course, it will add to the continual story that I'm a pig and live in a
pig pen (LOL)

But, aside from that, I try not to let a little dirt or mess bother me.
Life is messy (or is that growth?)

And I don't think I'd ever be attracted to a mud bath, expensive or free.


~ Carrie

[Carrie]

Post by www.dr4baxs.com

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
jeanette wrote:I find what I am doing here to serve some

good.>>>

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
sv: I still don't understand how or who it serves in a good

way. sheryl
Do we need to, Sheryl? Bringing our unhealed thoughts out into
the open can look very messy. But once exposed, who knows the
outcome? This is where patience, trust and open-mindedness can
be helpful. It allows for us to wait and see. There is no rush
on this, since love waits on welcome, not on time. One moment
of welcome can heal eons of fear and hate. We can know that it
is done and leave it be as it is ... for now ... within the
illusion. :)))
I think Jeanette and Tom are doing a great service here.
ellen

Notice, too, how others are starting to join with it, in a loving and
peaceful way?

Transmuting the energy, or something.

~ Carrie

[Tomaso]

jeanette wrote:I find what I am doing here to serve some good.>>>

sheryl: I still don't understand how or who it serves in a good way.


~ She's protecting all the other virgins on the newsgroup. After I
finnish banging all the babes in Louisville, I'll be looking for fresh
meat.

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[Carrie]

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
jeanette wrote:I find what I am doing here to serve some good.>>>
sv: I still don't understand how or who it serves in a good way. sheryl

I think they are working out issues, seeing them clearer, maybe
understanding how the other feels (and might have felt).

For others, not personally involved, it's good practice in detaching from
ego issues. Seeing it as a joining, and healing, and allowing it to be.

~ Carrie

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette
"One easy way to facilitate this is to avoid the Thomaso/Jeanette
interchanges.
Both have a lot of value to share but, apparently, not with each other.
(imo) ;-)"
That's why I label them "off topic."
I tried to communicate with Tom many times. Tom's viewpoint, as he stated to
me over and over again, is communication isn't necessary in relationships at
all. Silence is more appropriate, he says.
I find what I am doing here to serve some good.

I agree.

And you did label it off topic. Even though, to me, anything and
everything can be ACIM.

~ Carrie

Post by Jeanette
Jeanette

[Noggin]

Post by Nancy Lorieau

Post by Carrie
Can we (anyone) love you, AND Tom and Carmen and others?
Does there have to be sides involved in love?

One easy way to facilitate this is to avoid the Thomaso/Jeanette
interchanges.
Both have a lot of value to share but, apparently, not with each other.
(imo) ;-)

Funny how you have all these opinions today about relative value and
goodness, yet at the same time find it necessary to lecture others that
there is no such thing. Always the hypocrite!

If the opinions of others on good, bad, right and wrong aren't enlightened
perceptions why are yours?

[www.dr4baxs.com]

Nancy, seems noggin's aka pernog aka cosfool aka katie, has been lost without
you're presence here of late. A break for the rest of us however. :_))) Sheryl

[Nancy Lorieau]

Post by Noggin
If the opinions of others on good, bad, right and wrong aren't enlightened
perceptions why are yours?

They aren't. ;-))

[Noggin]

Post by Nancy Lorieau

Post by Noggin
If the opinions of others on good, bad, right and wrong aren't enlightened
perceptions why are yours?

They aren't. ;-))

Then why do you offer them as corrections and advice to others?

[Nancy Lorieau]

Post by Noggin
If the opinions of others on good, bad, right and wrong aren't
enlightened perceptions why are yours?

Post by Nancy Lorieau
They aren't. ;-))

Then why do you offer them as corrections and advice to others?

n.

[Carrie]

Post by Noggin
If the opinions of others on good, bad, right and wrong aren't
enlightened perceptions why are yours?

Post by Nancy Lorieau
They aren't. ;-))

Then why do you offer them as corrections and advice to others?

n.

LOL... took me a minute to get this one

~ Carrie

[Carrie]

Post by Nancy Lorieau

Post by Carrie
Can we (anyone) love you, AND Tom and Carmen and others?
Does there have to be sides involved in love?

One easy way to facilitate this is to avoid the Thomaso/Jeanette
interchanges.

But, doesn't that involve judging and taking sides?

Seeing them (together) as something to avoid, and not see from a
different way, like through love and peace?

Maybe it's just something they need to work out, and others can learn
from.

~ Carrie

Post by Nancy Lorieau
Both have a lot of value to share but, apparently, not with each other.
(imo) ;-)
Love...
n.

[Nancy Lorieau]

Post by Carrie

Post by Nancy Lorieau
One easy way to facilitate this is to avoid the Thomaso/Jeanette
interchanges.

But, doesn't that involve judging and taking sides?
Seeing them (together) as something to avoid, and not see from a
different way, like through love and peace?
Maybe it's just something they need to work out, and others can learn
from.

Could be. ;-)

n.

[James]

Post by Nancy Lorieau

Post by Carrie

Post by Nancy Lorieau
One easy way to facilitate this is to avoid the

Thomaso/Jeanette

Post by Nancy Lorieau

Post by Carrie

Post by Nancy Lorieau
interchanges.

But, doesn't that involve judging and taking sides?
Seeing them (together) as something to avoid, and not

see from a

Post by Nancy Lorieau

Post by Carrie
different way, like through love and peace?
Maybe it's just something they need to work out, and

others can learn

Post by Nancy Lorieau

Post by Carrie
from.

Could be. ;-)
n.

James: Do not forget the positive use of denial.

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette

Post by Jeanette
And my absolute apology to ellen for my past relationship with

her, my

Post by Jeanette
erroneous thoughts, and hideous conclusions. Although Tom has

certainly

Post by Jeanette
embellished the facts of the matter here, I do apologize from

my heart to

Post by Jeanette
you.

The sincerity of your apology long ago could not be mistaken
Jeanette. Our forgiveness in this relationship continues to
grow.

Post by Jeanette
My relationship with ellen has completely changed, and I am

grateful for her

Post by Jeanette
willingness to accept my amends. I hope she continues to do

so. I am more

Post by Jeanette
than willing to continue to engage a forgiving and loving

sisterhood with

Post by Jeanette
her.

I Love you Jeanette. Nothing will ever change that. The past
is over. It never even happened. Keep your focus, Love, on the
Now.
ellen

Jeanette is much different than when I first "met" her (or tried to) on
the old tgp board. Where a private spin-off board had just been made to
escape the abusive posters, and Jeanette was the main one (LOL) ( I heard
about this, and checked out tgp, when someone complained about it on my
board)

At the time I saw myself in her, in the way she said what the thought
and felt, and didn't back off, and people were afraid of this and saw her as
the enemy.

I'm sure she has changed a lot more since then, than I have.

Don't mean to be talking about her like she's not here (LOL) But, you are
right, the past is over, and all that was and ever is real is the Love. Even
when it didn't always show.

And, maybe the lessons.

~ Carrie

[ellen]

Nice post Carrie :))

ellen

Post by Carrie

Post by Jeanette

Post by Jeanette
And my absolute apology to ellen for my past relationship

with

Post by Carrie

Post by Jeanette
her, my

Post by Jeanette
erroneous thoughts, and hideous conclusions. Although Tom

has

Post by Carrie

Post by Jeanette
certainly

Post by Jeanette
embellished the facts of the matter here, I do apologize

from

Post by Carrie

Post by Jeanette
my heart to

Post by Jeanette
you.

The sincerity of your apology long ago could not be mistaken
Jeanette. Our forgiveness in this relationship continues to
grow.

Post by Jeanette
My relationship with ellen has completely changed, and I

am

Post by Carrie

Post by Jeanette
grateful for her

Post by Jeanette
willingness to accept my amends. I hope she continues to

do

Post by Carrie

Post by Jeanette
so. I am more

Post by Jeanette
than willing to continue to engage a forgiving and loving

sisterhood with

Post by Jeanette
her.

I Love you Jeanette. Nothing will ever change that. The

past

Post by Carrie

Post by Jeanette
is over. It never even happened. Keep your focus, Love, on

the

Post by Carrie

Post by Jeanette
Now.
ellen

Jeanette is much different than when I first "met" her (or

tried to) on

Post by Carrie
the old tgp board. Where a private spin-off board had just

been made to

Post by Carrie
escape the abusive posters, and Jeanette was the main one

(LOL) ( I heard

Post by Carrie
about this, and checked out tgp, when someone complained about

it on my

Post by Carrie
board)
At the time I saw myself in her, in the way she said

what the thought

Post by Carrie
and felt, and didn't back off, and people were afraid of this

and saw her as

Post by Carrie
the enemy.
I'm sure she has changed a lot more since then, than I

have.

Post by Carrie
Don't mean to be talking about her like she's not here

(LOL) But, you are

Post by Carrie
right, the past is over, and all that was and ever is real is

the Love. Even

Post by Carrie
when it didn't always show.
And, maybe the lessons.
~ Carrie

[ellen]

Post by Tomaso
Jeanette "You were not happy with any of my relationships with

those

Post by Tomaso
who found Ken of value."
I wrote " Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me

that Ellen

Post by Tomaso
is a pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch,

remember?"

Post by Tomaso
~ Yep, "sad and pathetic" is how you described Ellen.

Yes. Isn't is amazing the things that happen when ancient hates
are transformed into present love through forgiveness? Your
relationship with Jeanette is none of my business ... except of
course when you choose to invite me into it.

ellen

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
Jeanette "You complained I offered Mike forgiveness, and
none for you."

~ Nope.

You most certainly did.

Jeanette "You were the one who jumped up out of bed in order to delete
Mike's messages from your discussion site."

~ Carmen was co-moderator on that board, and she stays up much later
than me. Your fantasy world has nothing to do with my reality.

You got up out of bed in the middle of the night to see what Mike had
written.

I swear to God my statement is true.

Jeanette "And you continue with your grievance. I offer you:
Tasmaniacs."

HDD - You suffer from Humor Deficit Disorder. LOL!

Humor? Your constant beratement of Mike is good humor?

Jeanette "You were not happy with any of my relationships with those
who found Ken of value."

~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that Ellen is a
pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?

Not what I said, at all.

Jeanette "A great part of your relationship with Carmen is your shared
grievance with Ken and the Foundation."

~ Ha, ha, ha. I've known Carmen for over 10 years, and we didn't even
know Ken existed until 1999. My relationship with Carmen is much
richer and deeper than you can even imagine. She is a fine woman.

I know. You are very much in love with her, and have been. And you took me
to bed to bring her closer to you. That's rather a private and public fact.
You lied to me extensively about your relationship, and now pretend you
weren't even there with me.

Jeanette " . . . Gene would defend anything . . . Tom [does]
based solely upon this nonverbal pact."

I wrote "A bare-faced assertion without any basis in fact."

Jeanette "It's true. And well evidenced on the ng . . . "

~ So, where's the evidence? LOL!

Don't need evidence Tom. It's simply a matter of simple observation. You and
Gene and John will defend each other because of your shared grievances with
Ken. And you and Gene have done so for years. And you have sliced apart
Ken's books, and other time wasting affairs, to attempt to discredit the
man.

Jeanette "You seem to think people are blind, deaf, and dumb, as to
what you, Gene, and John, are doing and have done."

~ You seem to think that people share your delusions. Quack!

They do, they just don't find it important to speak on the subject, although
many have from time to time.

I wrote "Uh . . . no. Sorry to deflate your egoistic fantasy of
being fearsome. Mike was fishing, and you took the bait. If you
think you've got something, the phone number for the FBI
field office in Louisville is 502-583-3941."

Jeanette "What, and be like you?"

~ Uh . . no. I know better than to lie to the FBI . . . but maybe you
do too. LOL!

~ You're talk is empty.

No, it's not. I just don't find investigating other people's lives to be
worth my time.

If you want to clean up your act on the ng, which you attempted to do with
your "I'm only here to discuss the Course," nonsense, I suggest you attempt
to do better than this.


Jeanette

[Tomaso]

I wrote "Nope."

Jeanette "You most certainly did."


~ I hope the last four days satisfied your craving for attention,
Jeanette, because that's about all you're going to get from me.

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[ellen]

Post by Tomaso
~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that Ellen

is a

Post by Tomaso
pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?

Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship. It
contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven past
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She will
not take your bait on this one.

ellen

[Jeanette]

Post by Tomaso
~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that Ellen

is a pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?

Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship. It
contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven past
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She will
not take your bait on this one.

ellen

As I've written in this thread a few moments ago, I do apologize.

I was hanging with the wrong crowd, so to speak, those who condemned and
demeaned everyone who found Ken of value in their lives. I simply followed
suit. I fully declare what I did, and honor you for accepting my apologies
and amends.


Jeanette

[happyslave]

Post by Tomaso

Post by Tomaso
~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that Ellen

is a pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?
Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship. It
contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven past
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She will
not take your bait on this one.
ellen
As I've written in this thread a few moments ago, I do apologize.
I was hanging with the wrong crowd, so to speak, those who condemned and
demeaned everyone who found Ken of value in their lives. I simply followed
suit. I fully declare what I did, and honor you for accepting my apologies
and amends.
Jeanette

It's your willingness to see things differently Jeanette. I have watched you
go through the shift, and it is stunning to watch.

hap

[Jeanette]

"happyslave" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:bp0itm$1j3a9l$***@ID-157953.news.uni-berlin.de...

"It's your willingness to see things differently Jeanette. I have watched
you go through the shift, and it is stunning to watch."

Thank You, if it wasn't for you, and others, who have offered me
understanding, where would I be?

We travel together in this, for that I am certain.

I held many grievances with Ken, and his students, with Wayne and eots, with
so many simply based upon metaphysical belief systems, or simply wanting to
feel esssential in a group of people whose determination and concern was
tearing down.

Now, I feel like I am building up, feel much more elated, and uplifted.

And the outcomes in my world have been quite dramatic, both at my work, in
my personal life, and with the sudden miraculous arrival of a man in my life
who holds forgiveness as his daily motivation, and knowing God as his light
ahead.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso

Post by Tomaso
~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that Ellen

is a pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?
Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship. It
contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven past
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She will
not take your bait on this one.
ellen
As I've written in this thread a few moments ago, I do apologize.
I was hanging with the wrong crowd, so to speak, those who condemned and
demeaned everyone who found Ken of value in their lives. I simply followed
suit. I fully declare what I did, and honor you for accepting my apologies
and amends.
Jeanette

It's your willingness to see things differently Jeanette. I have watched you
go through the shift, and it is stunning to watch.
hap

Yes, but some people make it easier to do this with than others.

Doesn't mean it can't be done with all. Just more of a challenge.

Good thing there are plenty of people come to us to help us learn.

~ Carrie

[Mike Down Under]

Post by happyslave
It's your willingness to see things differently Jeanette. I have watched you
go through the shift, and it is stunning to watch.

Yup - no wonder that her old mates in the crooked foxy and St Dibdab the
holie of holies are so pissed and both keep trying to pull her away from
those that forgiveness have made anew. Must really piss em off!

Mike Down Under

[ellen]

Post by Tomaso

Post by Tomaso
~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that

Ellen

Post by Tomaso
is a pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch,

remember?

Post by Tomaso
Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship.

It

Post by Tomaso
contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven past
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She

will

Post by Tomaso
not take your bait on this one.
ellen
As I've written in this thread a few moments ago, I do

apologize.

Post by Tomaso
I was hanging with the wrong crowd, so to speak, those who

condemned and

Post by Tomaso
demeaned everyone who found Ken of value in their lives. I

simply followed

Post by Tomaso
suit. I fully declare what I did, and honor you for accepting

my apologies

Post by Tomaso
and amends.
Jeanette

We are sisters, you and I. :))))

ellen

[Tomaso]

Ellen "Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship.
It contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven past
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She will
not take your bait on this one."

~ Believe it or not, ellen, that's what she told me. Jeanette claimed
to have great insight into the dysfunctional psychology of alcoholics,
such as you. It was all news to me. I never had any first-hand
experience with alcoholics or abuse survivors before my involvement
with this newsgroup, and I tended to believe what Jeanette told me.

~ "Sad and pathetic" was an exact quote of how Jeanette referred to
you, along with some other choice descriptive language, but that was
at a time when I was attempting to have an email conversation with
you. I suspect now that Jeanette was just a little jealous.

~ I hope your current forgiven relationship with Jeanette actually has
some substance, but if these old matters press a sore spot for you, my
only advice is for you to just deal with it.

~ Your relationship with Jeanette is of no interest to me, but if you
think that Jeanette really needs your defense, feel free to act out
your personal drama any way you like. I'll add you to the list of
newsgroup "victims." LOL.

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[happyslave]

Post by Tomaso
Ellen "Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship.
It contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven past
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She will
not take your bait on this one."
~ Believe it or not, ellen, that's what she told me. Jeanette claimed
to have great insight into the dysfunctional psychology of alcoholics,
such as you. It was all news to me. I never had any first-hand
experience with alcoholics or abuse survivors before my involvement
with this newsgroup, and I tended to believe what Jeanette told me.
~ "Sad and pathetic" was an exact quote of how Jeanette referred to
you, along with some other choice descriptive language, but that was
at a time when I was attempting to have an email conversation with
you. I suspect now that Jeanette was just a little jealous.
~ I hope your current forgiven relationship with Jeanette actually has
some substance, but if these old matters press a sore spot for you, my
only advice is for you to just deal with it.
~ Your relationship with Jeanette is of no interest to me, but if you
think that Jeanette really needs your defense, feel free to act out
your personal drama any way you like. I'll add you to the list of
newsgroup "victims." LOL.

Ya know Tom you really seem to celebrate separation. This post shows you at
your sleazy worst.

hap

[ellen]

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
Ellen "Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving

relationship.

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
It contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven

past

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She

will

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
not take your bait on this one."
~ Believe it or not, ellen, that's what she told me.

Jeanette claimed

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
to have great insight into the dysfunctional psychology of

alcoholics,

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
such as you. It was all news to me. I never had any

first-hand

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
experience with alcoholics or abuse survivors before my

involvement

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
with this newsgroup, and I tended to believe what Jeanette

told me.

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
~ "Sad and pathetic" was an exact quote of how Jeanette

referred to

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
you, along with some other choice descriptive language, but

that was

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
at a time when I was attempting to have an email

conversation with

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
you. I suspect now that Jeanette was just a little jealous.
~ I hope your current forgiven relationship with Jeanette

actually has

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
some substance, but if these old matters press a sore spot

for you, my

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
only advice is for you to just deal with it.
~ Your relationship with Jeanette is of no interest to me,

but if you

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
think that Jeanette really needs your defense, feel free to

act out

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
your personal drama any way you like. I'll add you to the

list of

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
newsgroup "victims." LOL.

Ya know Tom you really seem to celebrate separation. This post

shows you at

Post by happyslave
your sleazy worst.
hap

See Tom.
See Tom run.
Run Tom run.

[happyslave]

Post by Jeanette

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
Ellen "Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving

relationship.

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
It contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven

past

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She

will

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
not take your bait on this one."
~ Believe it or not, ellen, that's what she told me.

Jeanette claimed

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
to have great insight into the dysfunctional psychology of

alcoholics,

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
such as you. It was all news to me. I never had any

first-hand

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
experience with alcoholics or abuse survivors before my

involvement

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
with this newsgroup, and I tended to believe what Jeanette

told me.

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
~ "Sad and pathetic" was an exact quote of how Jeanette

referred to

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
you, along with some other choice descriptive language, but

that was

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
at a time when I was attempting to have an email

conversation with

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
you. I suspect now that Jeanette was just a little jealous.
~ I hope your current forgiven relationship with Jeanette

actually has

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
some substance, but if these old matters press a sore spot

for you, my

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
only advice is for you to just deal with it.
~ Your relationship with Jeanette is of no interest to me,

but if you

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
think that Jeanette really needs your defense, feel free to

act out

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
your personal drama any way you like. I'll add you to the

list of

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
newsgroup "victims." LOL.

Ya know Tom you really seem to celebrate separation. This post

shows you at

Post by happyslave
your sleazy worst.
hap

See Tom.
See Tom run.
Run Tom run.

LOL!!

[Jeanette]

"See Tom.

Post by ellen
See Tom run.
Run Tom run."

Exactly. Which is why he refused to communicate with me for weeks at a time,
he can't even face honest dialogue.


Jeanette

[happyslave]

Post by Jeanette
"See Tom.

Post by ellen
See Tom run.
Run Tom run."

Exactly. Which is why he refused to communicate with me for weeks at a time,
he can't even face honest dialogue.

Which is why he is always attempting to see the worst in others, because he
does not see himself as healed.

[Jeanette]

"happyslave" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:bp0lhn$1ju80p$***@ID-157953.news.uni-berlin.de...

"Which is why he is always attempting to see the worst in others, because he
does not see himself as healed."

He's a very unhappy and *angry,* man, so much to the point, that anyone who
has achieved great change in their life cannot possibly be acknowledged by
him, and so he attacks as he has concerning my divorce, and other matters,
in order to convince himself that life change, and change of mind isn't at
all impossible.

Much less the miraculous.

He's simply the court jester, and feels comfortable in his role, that way,
he doesn't have to think or feel any deeper than his next "humorous"
condescending remarks.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette
"Which is why he is always attempting to see the worst in others, because he
does not see himself as healed."
He's a very unhappy and *angry,* man, so much to the point, that anyone who
has achieved great change in their life cannot possibly be acknowledged by
him, and so he attacks as he has concerning my divorce, and other matters,
in order to convince himself that life change, and change of mind isn't at
all impossible.
Much less the miraculous.
He's simply the court jester, and feels comfortable in his role, that way,
he doesn't have to think or feel any deeper than his next "humorous"
condescending remarks.
Jeanette

Do you (and Happyslave) actually believe this is what ACIM says?

Or, are we not relating it to that, seeing as it's OT?

~ Carrie

[Carrie]

Post by happyslave

Post by Jeanette
"See Tom.

Post by ellen
See Tom run.
Run Tom run."

Exactly. Which is why he refused to communicate with me for weeks at a

time,

Post by Jeanette
he can't even face honest dialogue.

Which is why he is always attempting to see the worst in others, because he
does not see himself as healed.

Isn't it only one's OWN mind that can be healed? The unhealed healer sees
it in someone else.

~ Carrie

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette
"See Tom.

Post by ellen
See Tom run.
Run Tom run."

Exactly. Which is why he refused to communicate with me for weeks at a time,
he can't even face honest dialogue.
Jeanette

He's not doing that now?

Just because he's not agreeing with everything you say, and has another
version of it.

Everyone has their own personal perception.

It's like asking someone a question and saying "I want an honest answer".
The person gives it, and it's not the one the questioner wanted to hear, so
they say "No, that's wrong, I want another answer, this time an HONEST one!"
The person answers again....if this goes on long enough the person answering
might say "okay-" and give the answer the questioner wants.

And the questioner says "good, you finally decided to tell the truth and
be honest"

Even if it's a lie.

But, maybe this is the most peaceful way to be? It seems to be what a lot
of people want.

I want the truth, and honesty, but it has to be the same as what I
believe.

Can't people have their own versions of the same incident/situation/story?
And everyone be honest and telling the truth?

~ Carrie

[Tomaso]

Ellen "See Tom. See Tom run. Run Tom run."


~ Crank, cank, crank, crank, crank.

~ 3,000 miles later and your still the same.

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

"~ Crank, cank, crank, crank, crank.

~ 3,000 miles later and your still the same."

ellen has changed alot.

You just don't like her decisions.

Some day, you might actually *want* to see the best in your brother and
sister.

Until then, your personal dishonesty is a payoff for you to a degree, but,
you are still the same Tom, angry, unhappy, and having to see your brothers
and sisters, and me, in the worst light.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette
"~ Crank, cank, crank, crank, crank.
~ 3,000 miles later and your still the same."
ellen has changed alot.
You just don't like her decisions.
Some day, you might actually *want* to see the best in your brother and
sister.
Until then, your personal dishonesty is a payoff for you to a degree, but,
you are still the same Tom, angry, unhappy, and having to see your brothers
and sisters, and me, in the worst light.

Just for the sake of conversation/discussion, how come it's okay for you
to do this to him (and Carmen)- seeing them in the worst light, but you make
out it's something terrible HE is doing to you?

You think you are being "honest", and that makes it different?

You are still seeing your brother(s) in the worst light, and pointing this
out as truth.

~ Carrie

Post by Jeanette
Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
Ellen "Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving

relationship.

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
It contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven

past

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She

will

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
not take your bait on this one."
~ Believe it or not, ellen, that's what she told me.

Jeanette claimed

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
to have great insight into the dysfunctional psychology of

alcoholics,

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
such as you. It was all news to me. I never had any

first-hand

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
experience with alcoholics or abuse survivors before my

involvement

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
with this newsgroup, and I tended to believe what Jeanette

told me.

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
~ "Sad and pathetic" was an exact quote of how Jeanette

referred to

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
you, along with some other choice descriptive language, but

that was

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
at a time when I was attempting to have an email

conversation with

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
you. I suspect now that Jeanette was just a little jealous.
~ I hope your current forgiven relationship with Jeanette

actually has

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
some substance, but if these old matters press a sore spot

for you, my

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
only advice is for you to just deal with it.
~ Your relationship with Jeanette is of no interest to me,

but if you

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
think that Jeanette really needs your defense, feel free to

act out

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
your personal drama any way you like. I'll add you to the

list of

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
newsgroup "victims." LOL.

Ya know Tom you really seem to celebrate separation. This post

shows you at

Post by happyslave
your sleazy worst.
hap

See Tom.
See Tom run.
Run Tom run.

Actually, it seems to be just the opposite.

Tom stayed away and out of it for a long time, and Jeanette kept wanting
him to talk about it and be open and honest with her.

Now he's doing it. And on a public discussion board, to boot.

Not exactly running away.

~ Carrie

[Tomaso]

Hap "Ya know Tom you really seem to celebrate separation. This post
shows you at your sleazy worst."

~ Hmmm . . . "sleazy" is not something that I notice anymore. Maybe
you need to work on yourself some more. Your perceptions are in the
gutter, lad.

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

Hap "Ya know Tom you really seem to celebrate separation. This post
shows you at your sleazy worst."

~ Hmmm . . . "sleazy" is not something that I notice anymore. Maybe
you need to work on yourself some more. Your perceptions are in the
gutter, lad.

No, your conversations are, which are great to read, because this is
*exactly* how you and Carmen speak of other people.

Your decision is to demean, degrade, and control, and if it doesn't work,
just offer some trashy commentary in order to make yourself look special.

Let me know when you are willing to speak of others in compassionate ways,
and you become honest with yourself.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Tomaso
Hap "Ya know Tom you really seem to celebrate separation. This post
shows you at your sleazy worst."
~ Hmmm . . . "sleazy" is not something that I notice anymore. Maybe
you need to work on yourself some more. Your perceptions are in the
gutter, lad.
No, your conversations are, which are great to read, because this is
*exactly* how you and Carmen speak of other people.

Don't you think anything we see "out there" comes from our own minds-
projecting it outward?

I give everything (everyone) all and any meaning it has, and I can change
my mind and see it differently, etc?

I mean, just from a course point of view.

Post by Tomaso
Your decision is to demean, degrade, and control, and if it doesn't work,
just offer some trashy commentary in order to make yourself look special.
Let me know when you are willing to speak of others in compassionate ways,
and you become honest with yourself.

I don't think he'll have to let you know, you'll probably notice it
on your own.


~Carrie

Post by Tomaso
Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Tomaso
Hap "Ya know Tom you really seem to celebrate separation. This post
shows you at your sleazy worst."
~ Hmmm . . . "sleazy" is not something that I notice anymore. Maybe
you need to work on yourself some more. Your perceptions are in the
gutter, lad.

Seems more like showing you as a "human being" like everyone/anyone else
(in the ego world of form).

You are getting an idea of how it must feel to run for president

(Or maybe Governor of Kali-for-nee-a) (LOL)

~ Carrie

Post by Tomaso
Be of Good Cheer,
Fox ;o)
http://www.angelic-visions.com

[ellen]

Post by Tomaso
Ellen "Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving

relationship.

Post by Tomaso
It contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven

past

Post by Tomaso
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She

will

Post by Tomaso
not take your bait on this one."
~ Believe it or not, ellen, that's what she told me. Jeanette

claimed

Post by Tomaso
to have great insight into the dysfunctional psychology of

alcoholics,

Post by Tomaso
such as you. It was all news to me. I never had any

first-hand

Post by Tomaso
experience with alcoholics or abuse survivors before my

involvement

Post by Tomaso
with this newsgroup, and I tended to believe what Jeanette

told me.

Post by Tomaso
~ "Sad and pathetic" was an exact quote of how Jeanette

referred to

Post by Tomaso
you, along with some other choice descriptive language, but

that was

Post by Tomaso
at a time when I was attempting to have an email conversation

with

Post by Tomaso
you. I suspect now that Jeanette was just a little jealous.
~ I hope your current forgiven relationship with Jeanette

actually has

Post by Tomaso
some substance, but if these old matters press a sore spot for

you, my

Post by Tomaso
only advice is for you to just deal with it.
~ Your relationship with Jeanette is of no interest to me, but

if you

Post by Tomaso
think that Jeanette really needs your defense, feel free to

act out

Post by Tomaso
your personal drama any way you like. I'll add you to the

list of

Post by Tomaso
newsgroup "victims." LOL.

LOL Right back attcha Tom. Jeanette does not need my defense.
But I have no problem reminder her of our Love. I have no *sore
spot* around past events that do not exist. I will not take any
of the unforgiveness bait you offer.

ellen

[Tomaso]

elle "LOL Right back attcha Tom. Jeanette does not need my defense.
But I have no problem reminder her of our Love. I have no *sore
spot* around past events that do not exist. I will not take any
of the unforgiveness bait you offer."


~ It was pure accident that you jumped like a monkey on a string.

~ Maybe you think your sore spots feel good.

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

"~ It was pure accident that you jumped like a monkey on a string.

~ Maybe you think your sore spots feel good."

Ah, it's amazing the hate your attempt to perpetuate, even in the light of
two women who have chosen a forgiving relationship.

You've just got to see the worst in any relationship, and in every
experience.

Let's see what other trash you can bring to the conversation in order to
attempt to make ellen feel as badly as you want her to.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette
"~ It was pure accident that you jumped like a monkey on a string.
~ Maybe you think your sore spots feel good."
Ah, it's amazing the hate your attempt to perpetuate, even in the light of
two women who have chosen a forgiving relationship.
You've just got to see the worst in any relationship, and in every
experience.
Let's see what other trash you can bring to the conversation in order to
attempt to make ellen feel as badly as you want her to.

What do you want, Jeanette?

Do you want Tom (and Carmen) to feel as bad as you seem to?

Would that make you feel better?

What would you like (specifically) for Tom to do? Or say? Seems like one
time he apologized to you, and you brushed it off.

Just wondering...

~ Carrie

Post by Jeanette
Jeanette

[happyslave]

Post by Tomaso
elle "LOL Right back attcha Tom. Jeanette does not need my defense.
But I have no problem reminder her of our Love. I have no *sore
spot* around past events that do not exist. I will not take any
of the unforgiveness bait you offer."
~ It was pure accident that you jumped like a monkey on a string.
~ Maybe you think your sore spots feel good.

It would make you happy if they were Tom. Does this make you feel special?

Your focus is always on the seeming wrongness in you brother.

You are seen, and nothing you can say will change that.

[Jeanette]

"happyslave" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:bp0l9o$1ivb3i$***@ID-157953.news.uni-berlin.de...

"It would make you happy if they were Tom. Does this make you feel special?

Your focus is always on the seeming wrongness in you brother.

You are seen, and nothing you can say will change that."

Sure it does.

Tom is the court jester who likes to stick his leg out and trip people, and
then laugh as to their sudden perplexity.

Tom has no interest in seeing the goodness in anyone, or relationships, and
he and Carmen speak at length about how others don't "get it," and laugh
with glee as to how upset and frustrated they can make their brother.

It's a charade of the worst order, and there I was, sitting in the middle,
wondering why in the world I found myself in such place.

And Tom is really beginning to present himself as he really is. Simply a guy
who laughs at, makes fun of, and enjoys belittling anyone who doesn't
adorize Carmen.

I can't even begin to tell you the dynamic of it all.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by happyslave

Post by Tomaso
elle "LOL Right back attcha Tom. Jeanette does not need my defense.
But I have no problem reminder her of our Love. I have no *sore
spot* around past events that do not exist. I will not take any
of the unforgiveness bait you offer."
~ It was pure accident that you jumped like a monkey on a string.
~ Maybe you think your sore spots feel good.

It would make you happy if they were Tom. Does this make you feel special?
Your focus is always on the seeming wrongness in you brother.
You are seen, and nothing you can say will change that.

Post by Tomaso

Post by happyslave
Your focus is always on the seeming wrongness in you brother.

You don't think this applies to anyone else here, and now in this thread?

Is this as much care about/like Jeanette and Ellen as dislike of Tom and
the chance to make him into the bad guy here?

It might seem like you are using Jeanette and Ellen for this.

~ Carrie

[ellen]

Post by Tomaso
elle "LOL Right back attcha Tom. Jeanette does not need my

defense.

Post by Tomaso
But I have no problem reminder her of our Love. I have no

*sore

Post by Tomaso
spot* around past events that do not exist. I will not take

any

Post by Tomaso
of the unforgiveness bait you offer."
~ It was pure accident that you jumped like a monkey on a

string.

Post by Tomaso
~ Maybe you think your sore spots feel good.
Be of Good Cheer,
Fox ;o)
http://www.angelic-visions.com

LOL Would it make you happy if you were right?

ellen

[Tomaso]

Ellen "LOL Would it make you happy if you were right?"


~ You're the one who jumped, and your reasons don't much effect my
happiness. When speaking of "maybe," what is "right"?

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
"~ You're the one who jumped, and your reasons don't much effect my

happiness. When speaking of "maybe," what is "right""

Jump in?

She simply offered validation, and confirmation, of what ellen and I know to
be true.

Your hideous attempts at manipulating our relationship just didn't work.

So now you are off to another venue.

And your happiness? What happiness? Certainly you don't exude much happiness
here, you can't even allow in your mind the feasibility of forgiving
relationship between two women.


Jeanette

[www.dr4baxs.com]

jeanette wrote to tom: And your happiness? What happiness? Certainly you don't
exude much happiness
here, >>>

sv: neither do you jeanette. you write about it but you don't "exude" much of
it here. Sheryl

[Carrie]

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
jeanette wrote to tom: And your happiness? What happiness? Certainly you don't
exude much happiness
here, >>>
sv: neither do you jeanette. you write about it but you don't "exude" much of
it here. Sheryl

You have a point Sheryl. I've been trying to take the "ACIM way" in this,
and remember I give everything (everyone) all and any meaning it/they have.

People have to learn their own lessons and come to their own conclusions,
in their own way and time.


~ Carrie

[Jeanette]

"ellen" <***@msn.com> wrote in message news:bp0l9u$1j57ig$***@ID-126618.news.uni-berlin.de...

"LOL Would it make you happy if you were right?"

He's left to take Carmen to work, and complain to her about his ill
treatment here, and she'll tell him how wonderful he is, and how we just
don't "get it."

Then they'll meet again tonight after she finishes work, after he picks her
up, they'll giggle and chortle over dinner at the waffle house about how the
ng is a mess, and Tom just might be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.
They'll talk specifically about me, and how my life is a lie, and that they
are sure the outcome they wanted for me, misery, has been carefully planned
and delivered.

I've been there, I know.


Jeanette

[ellen]

Post by Tomaso
"LOL Would it make you happy if you were right?"
He's left to take Carmen to work, and complain to her about

his ill

Post by Tomaso
treatment here, and she'll tell him how wonderful he is, and

how we just

Post by Tomaso
don't "get it."
Then they'll meet again tonight after she finishes work, after

he picks her

Post by Tomaso
up, they'll giggle and chortle over dinner at the waffle house

about how the

Post by Tomaso
ng is a mess, and Tom just might be the reincarnation of Jesus

Christ.

Post by Tomaso
They'll talk specifically about me, and how my life is a lie,

and that they

Post by Tomaso
are sure the outcome they wanted for me, misery, has been

carefully planned

Post by Tomaso
and delivered.
I've been there, I know.
Jeanette

Since I was brought into the conversation, I thought it best to
address it head on.
But, I trust you two will work it out, Jeanette.

ellen

[Carrie]

Post by Tomaso
elle "LOL Right back attcha Tom. Jeanette does not need my defense.
But I have no problem reminder her of our Love. I have no *sore
spot* around past events that do not exist. I will not take any
of the unforgiveness bait you offer."
~ It was pure accident that you jumped like a monkey on a string.
~ Maybe you think your sore spots feel good.

You know, I think this is actually true. Or we get so used to our sore
spots they feel familiar and that feels good.

~ Carrie

Post by Tomaso
Be of Good Cheer,
Fox ;o)
http://www.angelic-visions.com

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

"I never had any first-hand experience with alcoholics or abuse survivors
before my involvement with this newsgroup, and I tended to believe what
Jeanette told me."

We spoke of 12 step groups and how people functioned with AA.

I certainly didn't expound on the psychology of alcoholics.

"~ Your relationship with Jeanette is of no interest to me, but if you
think that Jeanette really needs your defense, feel free to act out
your personal drama any way you like. I'll add you to the list of
newsgroup "victims." LOL."

Defense? ellen needs nothing from me.

What you need apparently is to attempt to tear down what ellen and I have
done, offer your judgments, and play ng "victim" games.

You obviously have no belief or faith in forgiving relationships, or find
apologies and amends mean anything. Your goal in relationship is to demean,
condemn, and control, in order to make your brother feel discounted and
unworthy. I should know.


Jeanette

[happyslave]

Post by Jeanette
"I never had any first-hand experience with alcoholics or abuse survivors
before my involvement with this newsgroup, and I tended to believe what
Jeanette told me."
We spoke of 12 step groups and how people functioned with AA.
I certainly didn't expound on the psychology of alcoholics.
"~ Your relationship with Jeanette is of no interest to me, but if you
think that Jeanette really needs your defense, feel free to act out
your personal drama any way you like. I'll add you to the list of
newsgroup "victims." LOL."
Defense? ellen needs nothing from me.
What you need apparently is to attempt to tear down what ellen and I have
done, offer your judgments, and play ng "victim" games.
You obviously have no belief or faith in forgiving relationships, or find
apologies and amends mean anything. Your goal in relationship is to demean,
condemn, and control, in order to make your brother feel discounted and
unworthy. I should know.
Jeanette

Yes the unhealed mind driving a wedge of separation.

[Tomaso]

Hap "Yes the unhealed mind driving a wedge of separation."


~ Is that why you and ellen jumped in with both feet . . . to
provide your healing presence? LOL!

~ Yer funny.

Be of Good Cheer,

Fox ;o)

http://www.angelic-visions.com

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

Hap "Yes the unhealed mind driving a wedge of separation."

~ Is that why you and ellen jumped in with both feet . . . to
provide your healing presence? LOL!

No, just to affirm what is possible, and what has been done.

Unfortunately, your choice is always to see the worst in everyone. It's
something you and Carmen perpetuate.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Tomaso
Hap "Yes the unhealed mind driving a wedge of separation."
~ Is that why you and ellen jumped in with both feet . . . to
provide your healing presence? LOL!
~ Yer funny.

Actually, it might look like they felt Jeanette needed support and
backing up against you.

~ Carrie

Post by Tomaso
Be of Good Cheer,
Fox ;o)
http://www.angelic-visions.com

[ellen]

Post by Carrie

Post by Tomaso
Hap "Yes the unhealed mind driving a wedge of separation."
~ Is that why you and ellen jumped in with both feet . . .

to

Post by Carrie

Post by Tomaso
provide your healing presence? LOL!
~ Yer funny.

Actually, it might look like they felt Jeanette needed

support and

Post by Carrie
backing up against you.
~ Carrie

Post by Tomaso
Be of Good Cheer,

Tom had offered Jeanette a reminder of our unhealed past. I
wanted to offer Jeanette a reminder of our forgiven present.
Anything else about their relationship is none of my business
and I do not have a *side* to be against in this matter.

ellen

[Carrie]

Post by Carrie

Post by Carrie

Post by Tomaso
Hap "Yes the unhealed mind driving a wedge of separation."
~ Is that why you and ellen jumped in with both feet . . .

to

Post by Carrie

Post by Tomaso
provide your healing presence? LOL!
~ Yer funny.

Actually, it might look like they felt Jeanette needed

support and

Post by Carrie
backing up against you.
~ Carrie

Post by Tomaso
Be of Good Cheer,

Tom had offered Jeanette a reminder of our unhealed past. I
wanted to offer Jeanette a reminder of our forgiven present.
Anything else about their relationship is none of my business
and I do not have a *side* to be against in this matter.
ellen

Just as a spin off topic (in itself) and nothing relating to Tom and
Jeanette, personally, what if one person in a relationship feels "the past"
is over and done, and issues resolved, and the other doesn't?

And, is that possible?

If one person really had forgiven, resolved, let go and moved on, would
they be drawn into it again in the present?

Where would the responsibility be, to heal (work through, forgive, let
go, see it differently, etc)?

~ Carrie

[ellen]

Post by Carrie
Just as a spin off topic (in itself) and nothing relating

to Tom and

Post by Carrie
Jeanette, personally, what if one person in a relationship

feels "the past"

Post by Carrie
is over and done, and issues resolved, and the other doesn't?
And, is that possible?
If one person really had forgiven, resolved, let go and

moved on, would

Post by Carrie
they be drawn into it again in the present?
Where would the responsibility be, to heal (work through,

forgive, let

Post by Carrie
go, see it differently, etc)?
~ Carrie

There are any number of right-minded or wrong-minded reasons for
being "drawn into it again". When dealing with hypotheticals
the possibilities are endless.
Now is all there is. It is the only place where the answer
lies.

[Jeanette]

"happyslave" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:bp0l1s$1jlkhp$***@ID-157953.news.uni-berlin.de...

"Yes the unhealed mind driving a wedge of separation."

Now you see what I lived with for a year. And I am learning why I did so.

Tom will do anything to attempt to blast apart what people fine true for
themselves, and what serves the general good.

god forbid ellen and I have a good relationship, where we can offer each
other forgiveness, and respect for our very different lives, and
metaphysical perspective.

He can't stand outcomes of forgiveness and healing, unless of course, Carmen
is found to be the one who has offered and directed the miracle to do the
healing.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Tomaso
"Yes the unhealed mind driving a wedge of separation."
Now you see what I lived with for a year. And I am learning why I did so.
Tom will do anything to attempt to blast apart what people fine true for
themselves, and what serves the general good.
god forbid ellen and I have a good relationship, where we can offer each
other forgiveness, and respect for our very different lives, and
metaphysical perspective.
He can't stand outcomes of forgiveness and healing, unless of course, Carmen
is found to be the one who has offered and directed the miracle to do the
healing.
Jeanette

Nothing personal, but aren't you the one who keeps bringing it up and
wanting to "talk" about it in this way?

~ Carrie

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette
"I never had any first-hand experience with alcoholics or abuse survivors
before my involvement with this newsgroup, and I tended to believe what
Jeanette told me."
We spoke of 12 step groups and how people functioned with AA.
I certainly didn't expound on the psychology of alcoholics.
"~ Your relationship with Jeanette is of no interest to me, but if you
think that Jeanette really needs your defense, feel free to act out
your personal drama any way you like. I'll add you to the list of
newsgroup "victims." LOL."
Defense? ellen needs nothing from me.
What you need apparently is to attempt to tear down what ellen and I have
done, offer your judgments, and play ng "victim" games.
You obviously have no belief or faith in forgiving relationships, or find
apologies and amends mean anything. Your goal in relationship is to demean,
condemn, and control, in order to make your brother feel discounted and
unworthy. I should know.
Jeanette

One main point in all this... at the time this happened, Tom probably had
no idea how he "seemed to be" (which was probably okay with you at the time)
would later be discussed, and thrown out to make him wrong and a horrible,
no good person, on the internet.

I don't know for sure and how much, but in some way he trusted you. He
had you in his home, and in his life and talked to you, shared with you.

Regardless of what you now think he is, and "did" to you (or didn't) you-
as a person, are betraying a trust.

Whether you feel it's justified or not.

Just something to think about. Does it really feel all that good to you?

~ Carrie

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

"~ "Sad and pathetic" was an exact quote of how Jeanette referred to"

Do attempt to make ellen and I angry with each other, Tom.

Feels good to you doesn't it?

"I suspect now that Jeanette was just a little jealous."

And do attempt to make me feel really bad, Tom.

Keep trying, Tom.

We're all eager to see your next ploy.

HONK!



Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by ellen

Post by Tomaso
~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that Ellen

is a

Post by Tomaso
pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?

Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship. It
contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven past
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She will
not take your bait on this one.
ellen

You can't feel the same way about Tom?

There's 2 workbook lessons that involve seeing (thinking of) one person
you believe you "love" and think is wonderful, and seeing (thinking of)
someone you hate, or annoys you (or you try and avoid) and seeing them both
the same.

Either the course is true or it isn't. I've just been in a discussion with
a long-time course student, who decides people are "abusive" (and mean
assholes) and we shouldn't allow people that that around us, or be part of
their lives. This person isn't on internet boards (LOL)

How does this realate to "my sinless brother is my guide to peace, my
sinful brother is my guide to pain and which I CHOOSE to see....?"

I know there is an "in the world" type of ACIM (like Raj seems to talk
about) and different levels, etc. But, if we can choose- and see people
different because of this, why not aim at that?

Of course, I can also see the person who believes there are mean,
abusive assholes in life we shouldn't tolerate and keep away from us
differently, too (LOL)

~ Carrie

[ellen]

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen

Post by Tomaso
~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that

Ellen

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen
is a

Post by Tomaso
pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?

Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship.

It

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen
contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven

past

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She

will

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen
not take your bait on this one.
ellen

You can't feel the same way about Tom?

Who says I can't? What does Love look like Carrie?

ellen

[Carrie]

Post by ellen

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen

Post by Tomaso
~ Ummm. . . you're the one who tried to convince me that

Ellen

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen
is a

Post by Tomaso
pathological lying alcoholic manipulative bitch, remember?

Nice try Tom. Jeanette and I have a forgiving relationship.

It

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen
contiues to grow and deepen. Dredging up the unforgiven

past

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen
can only serve as a reminder of the Love we now share. She

will

Post by Carrie

Post by ellen
not take your bait on this one.
ellen

You can't feel the same way about Tom?

Who says I can't? What does Love look like Carrie?
ellen

I guess it doesn't look like supporting one person against another.

But I know I give everything all and any meaning it has.

~ Carrie

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

"~ Ha, ha, ha. I've known Carmen for over 10 years, and we didn't even
know Ken existed until 1999. My relationship with Carmen is much
richer and deeper than you can even imagine. She is a fine woman."

I've lived many places and known many people. I've experience diversity of
cultures, and families from all kinds of economic structures.

I don't like Carmen and never did. I didn't like her before you asked me for
a relationship.

I find her belittling, condescending, and preachy, and I also find she
depends on a man in relationship for financial concerns so that we doesn't
have to take personal responsibility in her life.

As far as "richer and deeper," I've heard the chit chat over dinners, the
condemnation and giggles and chortles.

And as far as relationships go, I see no need for emotional or physical
distance, based upon the Course's teaching of special relationships.

I embrace the man in my life in all ways, and love him dearly. Never would I
base a relationship with him on co-dependency for finances or rides to work
or shared grievances.

You can herald what a fine woman Carmen is all that you like. I do have a
different opinion. I've met the woman, and listened to you speak about how
she is the way, the truth and the light.

I don't buy any of it.

Matter of fact when she used to write in the Urtext forum, many argued
against her interpretation of the Course, and found what she wrote to be
quite contrary to what Jesus teaches.

AND I certainly wouldn't be in love with a man, and then make love triangles
based upon some contorted notion that that is how to become closer together.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette
"~ Ha, ha, ha. I've known Carmen for over 10 years, and we didn't even
know Ken existed until 1999. My relationship with Carmen is much
richer and deeper than you can even imagine. She is a fine woman."
I've lived many places and known many people. I've experience diversity of
cultures, and families from all kinds of economic structures.
I don't like Carmen and never did. I didn't like her before you asked me for
a relationship.
I find her belittling, condescending, and preachy, and I also find she
depends on a man in relationship for financial concerns so that we doesn't
have to take personal responsibility in her life.
As far as "richer and deeper," I've heard the chit chat over dinners, the
condemnation and giggles and chortles.
And as far as relationships go, I see no need for emotional or physical
distance, based upon the Course's teaching of special relationships.
I embrace the man in my life in all ways, and love him dearly. Never would I
base a relationship with him on co-dependency for finances or rides to work
or shared grievances.
You can herald what a fine woman Carmen is all that you like. I do have a
different opinion. I've met the woman, and listened to you speak about how
she is the way, the truth and the light.
I don't buy any of it.
Matter of fact when she used to write in the Urtext forum, many argued
against her interpretation of the Course, and found what she wrote to be
quite contrary to what Jesus teaches.
AND I certainly wouldn't be in love with a man, and then make love triangles
based upon some contorted notion that that is how to become closer together.
Jeanette

Isn't this where you are to forgive (and see it differently) and
change YOUR mind about it (them)?

~ Carrie

[Jeanette]

"Tomaso" <***@aso.moc> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

"~ You're talk is empty."

I won't lie for you or anyone.

And I would take an oath to God, that what I speak is true.


Jeanette

[Carrie]

Post by Jeanette
jeanette "Interestingly enough, when I began to have a forgiving
attitude with Alan, and Mike

When are you going to try this with Tom?

I guess Timothy Nash is another of his names?

You knew he was posting under fake names when you were with him?

Why did he delete my posts from his board?

I never could figure that out. He's never explain why. Just that it was
his board.

I guess it was because it was me and I didn't try using fake names (LOL)

~ Carrie




and began writing to those who found Ken

Post by Jeanette
of value in their life, Tom disapproved."
~ Not true. That's another figment of your imagination. I was quite
relieved when you gave up your vendetta against Mike. You were
looking quite foolish.
Not true. And I don't care. You complained I offered Mike forgiveness, and
none for you. You were the one who jumped up out of bed in order to delete
Mike's messages from your discussion site.
And you continue with your grievance. I offer you: Tasmaniacs.
You were not happy with any of my relationships with those who found Ken of
value. A great part of your relationship with Carmen is your shared
grievance with Ken and the Foundation.
Jeanette " . . . Gene would defend anything . . . Tom [does]
based solely upon this nonverbal pact."
~ A bare-faced assertion without any basis in fact.
It's true. And well evidenced on the ng, and stated by many besides myself.
You seem to think people are blind, deaf, and dumb, as to what you, Gene,
and John, are doing and have done. Honk! Honk!
Jeanette "And I think Mike is right. Tom fears that I am a direct
witness of what he has done."
~ Uh . . . no. Sorry to deflate your egoistic fantasy of being
fearsome. Mike was fishing, and you took the bait.
~ If you think you've got something, the phone number for the FBI
field office in Louisville is 502-583-3941.
What, and be like you?
Jeanette

[Jeanette]

Post by Jeanette
jeanette "Interestingly enough, when I began to have a forgiving
attitude with Alan, and Mike

"When are you going to try this with Tom?"

I did try. I suggested a forgiving relationship. I advised an honest one. I
asked him what I was doing in his life, on many occasions and in many ways,
when I knew he was deeply in love with Carmen.

He isn't interested in discussion of his life, with me or anyone, as long as
he gets what he wants.

Right now the man in my life, and myself, are using these dialogues as a
therapeutic means for me to understand the relationship, and why I
consented.

It has been helpful for me, and also for others, who have feared speaking
the truth of their lives.

"I guess Timothy Nash is another of his names?"

There are many others. This is one.

"You knew he was posting under fake names when you were with him?"

Oh sure.

"Why did he delete my posts from his board?"

Tom's focus seems to be about elimination. He eliminates people,
opportunities for love, until now his world is so small it revolves around a
single woman, and his only social engagements are with those who are in
alignment with what Carmen teaches. He has stated here he only socializes
now with "Course students," and you can be sure those "Course students," are
those who bow to Carmen.

This is why I don't and won't ever teach the Course, nor attempt to start a
Church. It's an endeavor which creates a cult of a sorts, where every one
else is determined that they don't "get it," as Carmen says to people on the
time.

"I never could figure that out. He's never explain why. Just that it was
his board."

Anything in Tom's way, he gets rid of.

I am case in point.

I doubt Carmen was co-moderator. I was there when Tom initiated and made the
board. And I was there when he got out of bed in the middle of the night,
thinking of Australia time, and noted to me when he came back how many of
Mike's posts he deleted. And this is true.

He used me, he got closer to Carmen, and he trashed me. Then he appeared as
Goose to attempt to emotionally hurt me. That's just how Tom is.

And I allowed it well knowing what was going on. Poor choices. I paid the
price.

Seems, thank Heavens, God had loving hands waiting for me.

If he needs you for some specific reason, he'll be very nice to you, when
he's done, he'll be gone.

As I note the specifics of the relationship here, my intention is simply to
stand for what I know is true, and to heal what needs to be healed in my
life. Nothing more.


Jeanette

[www.dr4baxs.com]

carrie: "When are you going to try this with Tom?"

jeanette: I did try. I suggested a forgiving relationship. >>>

sv: forgiveness is an inside job. it does not require the willingness of
another person. Sheryl

[James]

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
carrie: "When are you going to try this with Tom?"
jeanette: I did try. I suggested a forgiving relationship.
sv: forgiveness is an inside job. it does not require the

willingness of

Post by www.dr4baxs.com
another person. Sheryl

James: Jeanette, Tom appears to have made it quite clear
that he does not want ANY relationship with you. Forgive Tom
and Carmen and move on.

[ACIM Files]

Post by Jeanette
I did try. I suggested a forgiving relationship. I advised an honest one. I
asked him what I was doing in his life, on many occasions and in many ways,
when I knew he was deeply in love with Carmen.
He isn't interested in discussion of his life, with me or anyone, as long as
he gets what he wants.
Right now the man in my life, and myself, are using these dialogues as a
therapeutic means for me to understand the relationship, and why I
consented.

Men are sure to cheat on women (physically and or emotionally) who insist on
being dominant or know it all's. Even with a wimpy, whipped, American man
you don't have a chance against a real woman. It's just a matter of time
till he throws you back in the pond. When will they learn...

[James]

On 13-Nov-2003, "Jeanette"

Post by Jeanette
I did try. I suggested a forgiving relationship. I

advised an honest one.

Post by Jeanette
I
asked him what I was doing in his life, on many

occasions and in many

Post by Jeanette
ways,
when I knew he was deeply in love with Carmen.
He isn't interested in discussion of his life, with me

or anyone, as long

Post by Jeanette
as
he gets what he wants.
Right now the man in my life, and myself, are using

these dialogues as a

Post by Jeanette
therapeutic means for me to understand the relationship,

and why I

Post by Jeanette
consented.

James: You are discussing in detail with your current lover
a 2 week fling that happened more than a year ago? It may
just be my perception but sounds a little bizarre to me.

Men are sure to cheat on women (physically and or

emotionally) who insist on

being dominant or know it all's. Even with a wimpy,

whipped, American man

you don't have a chance against a real woman. It's just a

matter of time

till he throws you back in the pond. When will they

learn...

[ellen]

Post by James
James: You are discussing in detail with your current lover
a 2 week fling that happened more than a year ago? It may
just be my perception but sounds a little bizarre to me.

The relationship in all it's stages was very much longer than 2
weeks.
You are either *clark-kent* or you listen to him way too much.
LOL

ellen

[Mike Down Under]

Post by Jeanette
~ If you think you've got something, the phone number for the FBI
field office in Louisville is 502-583-3941.

Just leave their email address here and they will likely get their mail box
jammed full of evidence about your crooked routine!

No doubt the Great White Teacher has it all down anyway. LOL He may not
dare to post here very often but I haven't the slightest doubt that he reads
everything in case someone is rude to Ken or in case some evidence to get
even floats to the surface.

Mike Down Under