HappyD
2011-01-30 18:28:25 UTC
Scientific theories are "proven", at least partially, based on their
predictive value. If a theory has high predictive value then it is
more likely to be correct. In this spirit, I am going to place a
"theory" in front of this group. Though this "theory" was proposed by
"an energy essence personallity" named Seth who was "channeled" by a
woman named Jane Roberts, I am only offering it as a theory to be
tested by its predictive value. According to Seth's theory, Jesus did
not get a stand in for the crucifixion but rather tried to dissuade a
"volunteer". Here are Seth's words on this subject:
Here is a portion of what Seth had to say about Jesus:
-Now: For your edification:
Christ, the historical Christ, was not crucified. - You will have to
give me time here. (Pause.)
He had no intention of dying in that manner; but others felt that to
fulfill the prophecies in all ways, a crucifixion was a necessity.
Christ did not take part in it (Pause.) There was a conspiracy in
which Judas: played a role an attempt to make a martyr out of Christ.
The man chosen was drugged-hence the necessity of helping him carry
the cross (see Luke:23) and he was told that he was the Christ. He
believed that he was. He was one of deluded, but he also himself
believed that he, not the historical Christ, was to fulfill the
prophecies.
Mary came because she was, full of sorrow for the man who believed he
was her son. Out of compassion she was present. The group responsible
wanted it to appear that one particular portion of the Jews had
crucified Christ, and never dreamed that the whole Jewish people would
be "blamed."
(Pause at 10.00.) This is difficult to explain even for me to
unravel. The tomb was empty because the same group carted the body
away. Mary Magdalene did see Christ, however, immediately after (see
Matthew 28). (Long, pause.) Christ was a great psychic. He caused the
wounds to appear then upon His own body, and appeared both physically
and in out-of-body states to His followers. He tried however, to
explain what had happened and His position but those who were not in
on the conspiracy would not understand, and misread His statements.
Peter three times denied the Lord (Matthew 26), saying he did not know
Him because he knew that that person was not Christ.
The plea, "Peter, why hast thou forsaken me?" came from the man who
believed he was Christ-the drugged version. Judas pointed out that
man. He knew of the conspiracy, and feared that the real Christ would
be captured. Therefore he handed over to the authorities a man known
to be self-styled messiah--to save, not destroy, the life of the
historical Christ.
(10..05. Jane's pace had speeded up considerably now.)
Symbolically, however, the crucifixion idea itself embodied deep
dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche, and so the crucifixion per
se became far greater reality then the actual physical events that
occurred at the time.
Only the deluded are in danger of, or capable of, such self sacrifice,
you see, or find it necessary. Only those still bound up in ideas of
crime and punishment would be attracted to that kind of religious
drama, and find within it deep echoes of their own subjective,
feelings.
Christ knew however, clairvoyantly, that these events in one way or
another would occur, and the probable dramas that could result. The
man involved could not be swerved from his subjective decision. He
would be sacrificed to make the old Jewish prophecies come true, and
he could not be dissuaded.
(10:10.) In the Last Supper when Christ said, "This is my body, and
this is my blood," He meant to show that the spirit was within all
matter, interconnected, and yet apart--that His own spirit was
independent of His body, and also in His own way to hint that He
should no longer be identified with His body. For He knew the dead
body would not be His own.
This was all misunderstood. Christ then changed His mode of behavior,
appearing quite often in out-of-body states to His followers. (See
John 20, 21; Matthew 28, Luke 24.) Before, he had not done this to
that degree. He tried to tell them however that He was not dead, and
they chose to take Him symbolically. (A one-minute pause.) His
physical presence was no longer necessary, and was an embarrassment
under the circumstances. He simply willed Himself out of it. Now you
may take your break.
("Thank you. It's very interesting.") (10:17. "Wow," Jane said after
she came out of trance, "nobody'll like that.
From "Seth Speaks" (session 560 November, 23 1970)
Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God
and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose
history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ - hence
many discrepancies in your records. These were all males because at
that time of your development, you would not have accepted a female
counterpart.
These individuals were part of one entity. You could not but
imagine God as a father. It would never have occurred to you to
imagine a god in any other than human terms. Earth components. These
three figures worked out a drama, highly symbolic, propelled by
concentrated energy of great force.
(Long pause at 9:52.) The EVENTS as they are recorded,
however, did not occur in history. The crucifixion of Christ was a
psychic, but not a physical event. Ideas of almost unimaginable
magnitude were played out.
(Pause at 9:55.) Judas, for example, was not a man in your
terms. He was - like all the other Disciples - a blessed, created
"fragment personality," formed by the Christ personality. He
REPRESENTED the self-betrayer. He dramatized a portion of each
individual's personality that focuses upon physical reality in a
grasping manner, and denies the inner self out of greed.
Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that
belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the
inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the
one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly
personality - the inner self - and twelve main characteristics
connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the
Disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically
oriented characteristics, each drawn outward toward daily reality on
the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self.
The Disciples, therefore, were given physical reality by the
inner self, as all of your earthly characteristics come out of your
inner nature. This was a living parable, made flesh among you - a
cosmic play worked out for your behalf, couched in terms that you
could understand.
The lessons were made plain, as all the ideas behind them were
personified. If you will forgive the term, this was like a local
morality play, put on in your corner of the universe. This does not
mean it was less real than you previously supposed. In fact, the
implications of what is said here should clearly hint at the more
powerful aspects of godhood.
The three Christ personalities were born upon your planet, and
indeed became flesh among you. None of these was crucified. The twelve
Disciples were materializations from the energies of these three
personalities - their combined energies. They were then fully endowed
with individuality, however, but their main task was to clearly
manifest within themselves certain abilities inherent within all men.
The same kinds of dramas in different ways have been given,
and while the drama is always different, it is always the same. This
does not mean that a Christ has appeared within each system of
reality. It means that the idea of Cod has manifested within each
system in a way that is comprehensible to the inhabitants.
This drama continues to exist. It does not belong, for
example, to your past. Only you have placed it there. This does not
mean that it always REOCCURS. The drama, then was far from
meaningless, and the spirit of Christ, in your terms, is legitimate.
It is the probable God-drama that you choose to perceive. There were
others that were perceived, but not by you, and there are other such
dramas existing now.
Now: Whether or not the Crucifixion occurred physically, it
was a psychic event, and exist as do all the other events connected
with the drama.
Many were physical but some were not. The psychic event
affected your world quite as much as the physical one, as is obvious,
The whole drama occurred as a result of mankind's need. It was created
as a result of that need, grew out of it, but it did not originate
within your system of reality.
Other religions were based upon different dramas, in which
ideas were acted out in a way that was comprehensible to various
cultures. Unfortunately, the differences between the dramas often led
to misunderstandings, and these were used as excuses for wars. These
dramas are also privately worked out in the dream state. The God-
personified figures first were introduced to man in the dream state,
and the way then prepared.=20
In visions and inspirations, men knew that the Christ drama
would be enacted and hence recognized it for what it was when it
occurred physically. Its power and strength then returned to the dream
universe. It had increased its vigor and intensity through the
physical materialization. In private dream, men then related to the
main figures in the drama, and in the dream state they recognized its
true import.
Now: God is more than the sum of all the probable systems of
reality He has created, and yet He is within each one of these,
without exception. He is therefore within each man and woman. He is
also within each spider, shadow, and frog, and this is what man does
not like to admit.
God can only be experienced, and you experience Him whether or
not you realize it, through your own existence. He is not male or
female, however, and I use the term only for convenience's sake. In
the most inescapable truth, He is not human in your terms at all, nor
in your terms is He a personality. Your IDEAS of personality are too
limited to contain the multitudinous facets of His multidimensional
existence.
On the other hand, He is human, in that He is a portion of
each individual; and within the vastness of His experience He holds an
"IDEA-SHAPE" of Himself as human, to which you can relate. He
literally was made flesh to dwell among you, for He forms your flesh
in that He is responsible for the energy that gives vitality and
validity to your private multidimensional self, which in turn forms
your image in accordance with your own ideas.
The private multidimensional self, or the soul, has then an
eternal validity. It is upheld, supported, maintained by the energy,
the inconceivable vitality, of All That Is.
It cannot be destroyed then, this inner self of yours, nor can
it be diminished. It shares in those abilities that are inherent
within All That Is. It must, therefore, create as it is created, for
this is the great giving that is behind all dimensions of existence,
the spilling-over from the fountain of All That Is.
Now we will end our session.
__________________________________________
Reference to Paul is in Seth Speaks - Session 586
In that session, he talks of the three men whose lives became confused
in history and merged and who became known as Christ. He said the
entity was born once as John the Baptist, one as the personality that
most stories of Christ refer to and once as Paul. When Paul reemerges
historically, he will carry within Him the characteristics of all
three personalities.
You really need to read the whole session, as it is too long to print,
but it's very interesting. Seth said, " Paul was to implement the
spiritual ideas of Christ in physical terms, however he grew the
seeds of an organization that would smother the ideas. He lingered
after Christ, as John the Baptist came before. Together the three
spanned some time period......John and the historical Christ each
performed their roles and were satisfied that they had done so. Paul
alone was left at the end unsatisfied and so it is about his
personality that the future Christ will form. .....the entity of which
these personalities are part, that entity, which you may call the
Christ entity, was aware of these issues. The earthly personalities
were not aware of them, although in periods of trance and exaltation,
much was made known to them..."
He went on to say that the third personality of Christ (Paul) will
indeed be known as a great psychic, for it is He who will teach
humanity to use those inner senses that alone make true spirituality
possible. Slayers and victims will change roles as reincarnational
memories rise to the surface of consciousness. Through the
development of these abilities, the sacredness of all life will be
intimately recognized and appreciated.
Seth said, "one man had already been born in India, in a small
province near Calcutta, but his ministry will seem to remain
comparatively local for his lifetime.
Another will be born in Africa, a black man whose main work will be
done in Indonesia. The expectations were set long ago in your terms,
and will be fed by new prophets until the third personality of Christ
does indeed emerge. He will lead man behind the symbolism upon which
religion has relied and will emphasize individual spiritual
experience, the expansiveness of soul, and teach man to recognize the
multitudinous aspects of his own reality.."
predictive value. If a theory has high predictive value then it is
more likely to be correct. In this spirit, I am going to place a
"theory" in front of this group. Though this "theory" was proposed by
"an energy essence personallity" named Seth who was "channeled" by a
woman named Jane Roberts, I am only offering it as a theory to be
tested by its predictive value. According to Seth's theory, Jesus did
not get a stand in for the crucifixion but rather tried to dissuade a
"volunteer". Here are Seth's words on this subject:
Here is a portion of what Seth had to say about Jesus:
-Now: For your edification:
Christ, the historical Christ, was not crucified. - You will have to
give me time here. (Pause.)
He had no intention of dying in that manner; but others felt that to
fulfill the prophecies in all ways, a crucifixion was a necessity.
Christ did not take part in it (Pause.) There was a conspiracy in
which Judas: played a role an attempt to make a martyr out of Christ.
The man chosen was drugged-hence the necessity of helping him carry
the cross (see Luke:23) and he was told that he was the Christ. He
believed that he was. He was one of deluded, but he also himself
believed that he, not the historical Christ, was to fulfill the
prophecies.
Mary came because she was, full of sorrow for the man who believed he
was her son. Out of compassion she was present. The group responsible
wanted it to appear that one particular portion of the Jews had
crucified Christ, and never dreamed that the whole Jewish people would
be "blamed."
(Pause at 10.00.) This is difficult to explain even for me to
unravel. The tomb was empty because the same group carted the body
away. Mary Magdalene did see Christ, however, immediately after (see
Matthew 28). (Long, pause.) Christ was a great psychic. He caused the
wounds to appear then upon His own body, and appeared both physically
and in out-of-body states to His followers. He tried however, to
explain what had happened and His position but those who were not in
on the conspiracy would not understand, and misread His statements.
Peter three times denied the Lord (Matthew 26), saying he did not know
Him because he knew that that person was not Christ.
The plea, "Peter, why hast thou forsaken me?" came from the man who
believed he was Christ-the drugged version. Judas pointed out that
man. He knew of the conspiracy, and feared that the real Christ would
be captured. Therefore he handed over to the authorities a man known
to be self-styled messiah--to save, not destroy, the life of the
historical Christ.
(10..05. Jane's pace had speeded up considerably now.)
Symbolically, however, the crucifixion idea itself embodied deep
dilemmas and meanings of the human psyche, and so the crucifixion per
se became far greater reality then the actual physical events that
occurred at the time.
Only the deluded are in danger of, or capable of, such self sacrifice,
you see, or find it necessary. Only those still bound up in ideas of
crime and punishment would be attracted to that kind of religious
drama, and find within it deep echoes of their own subjective,
feelings.
Christ knew however, clairvoyantly, that these events in one way or
another would occur, and the probable dramas that could result. The
man involved could not be swerved from his subjective decision. He
would be sacrificed to make the old Jewish prophecies come true, and
he could not be dissuaded.
(10:10.) In the Last Supper when Christ said, "This is my body, and
this is my blood," He meant to show that the spirit was within all
matter, interconnected, and yet apart--that His own spirit was
independent of His body, and also in His own way to hint that He
should no longer be identified with His body. For He knew the dead
body would not be His own.
This was all misunderstood. Christ then changed His mode of behavior,
appearing quite often in out-of-body states to His followers. (See
John 20, 21; Matthew 28, Luke 24.) Before, he had not done this to
that degree. He tried to tell them however that He was not dead, and
they chose to take Him symbolically. (A one-minute pause.) His
physical presence was no longer necessary, and was an embarrassment
under the circumstances. He simply willed Himself out of it. Now you
may take your break.
("Thank you. It's very interesting.") (10:17. "Wow," Jane said after
she came out of trance, "nobody'll like that.
From "Seth Speaks" (session 560 November, 23 1970)
Your Christ figure represents, symbolically, your idea of God
and his relationships. There were three separate individuals whose
history blended, and they became known collectively as Christ - hence
many discrepancies in your records. These were all males because at
that time of your development, you would not have accepted a female
counterpart.
These individuals were part of one entity. You could not but
imagine God as a father. It would never have occurred to you to
imagine a god in any other than human terms. Earth components. These
three figures worked out a drama, highly symbolic, propelled by
concentrated energy of great force.
(Long pause at 9:52.) The EVENTS as they are recorded,
however, did not occur in history. The crucifixion of Christ was a
psychic, but not a physical event. Ideas of almost unimaginable
magnitude were played out.
(Pause at 9:55.) Judas, for example, was not a man in your
terms. He was - like all the other Disciples - a blessed, created
"fragment personality," formed by the Christ personality. He
REPRESENTED the self-betrayer. He dramatized a portion of each
individual's personality that focuses upon physical reality in a
grasping manner, and denies the inner self out of greed.
Each of the twelve represented qualities of personality that
belong to one individual, and Christ as you know him represented the
inner self. The twelve, therefore, plus Christ as you know him (the
one figure composed of the three) represented an individual earthly
personality - the inner self - and twelve main characteristics
connected with the egotistical self. As Christ was surrounded by the
Disciples, so the inner self is surrounded by these physically
oriented characteristics, each drawn outward toward daily reality on
the one hand, and yet orbiting the inner self.
The Disciples, therefore, were given physical reality by the
inner self, as all of your earthly characteristics come out of your
inner nature. This was a living parable, made flesh among you - a
cosmic play worked out for your behalf, couched in terms that you
could understand.
The lessons were made plain, as all the ideas behind them were
personified. If you will forgive the term, this was like a local
morality play, put on in your corner of the universe. This does not
mean it was less real than you previously supposed. In fact, the
implications of what is said here should clearly hint at the more
powerful aspects of godhood.
The three Christ personalities were born upon your planet, and
indeed became flesh among you. None of these was crucified. The twelve
Disciples were materializations from the energies of these three
personalities - their combined energies. They were then fully endowed
with individuality, however, but their main task was to clearly
manifest within themselves certain abilities inherent within all men.
The same kinds of dramas in different ways have been given,
and while the drama is always different, it is always the same. This
does not mean that a Christ has appeared within each system of
reality. It means that the idea of Cod has manifested within each
system in a way that is comprehensible to the inhabitants.
This drama continues to exist. It does not belong, for
example, to your past. Only you have placed it there. This does not
mean that it always REOCCURS. The drama, then was far from
meaningless, and the spirit of Christ, in your terms, is legitimate.
It is the probable God-drama that you choose to perceive. There were
others that were perceived, but not by you, and there are other such
dramas existing now.
Now: Whether or not the Crucifixion occurred physically, it
was a psychic event, and exist as do all the other events connected
with the drama.
Many were physical but some were not. The psychic event
affected your world quite as much as the physical one, as is obvious,
The whole drama occurred as a result of mankind's need. It was created
as a result of that need, grew out of it, but it did not originate
within your system of reality.
Other religions were based upon different dramas, in which
ideas were acted out in a way that was comprehensible to various
cultures. Unfortunately, the differences between the dramas often led
to misunderstandings, and these were used as excuses for wars. These
dramas are also privately worked out in the dream state. The God-
personified figures first were introduced to man in the dream state,
and the way then prepared.=20
In visions and inspirations, men knew that the Christ drama
would be enacted and hence recognized it for what it was when it
occurred physically. Its power and strength then returned to the dream
universe. It had increased its vigor and intensity through the
physical materialization. In private dream, men then related to the
main figures in the drama, and in the dream state they recognized its
true import.
Now: God is more than the sum of all the probable systems of
reality He has created, and yet He is within each one of these,
without exception. He is therefore within each man and woman. He is
also within each spider, shadow, and frog, and this is what man does
not like to admit.
God can only be experienced, and you experience Him whether or
not you realize it, through your own existence. He is not male or
female, however, and I use the term only for convenience's sake. In
the most inescapable truth, He is not human in your terms at all, nor
in your terms is He a personality. Your IDEAS of personality are too
limited to contain the multitudinous facets of His multidimensional
existence.
On the other hand, He is human, in that He is a portion of
each individual; and within the vastness of His experience He holds an
"IDEA-SHAPE" of Himself as human, to which you can relate. He
literally was made flesh to dwell among you, for He forms your flesh
in that He is responsible for the energy that gives vitality and
validity to your private multidimensional self, which in turn forms
your image in accordance with your own ideas.
The private multidimensional self, or the soul, has then an
eternal validity. It is upheld, supported, maintained by the energy,
the inconceivable vitality, of All That Is.
It cannot be destroyed then, this inner self of yours, nor can
it be diminished. It shares in those abilities that are inherent
within All That Is. It must, therefore, create as it is created, for
this is the great giving that is behind all dimensions of existence,
the spilling-over from the fountain of All That Is.
Now we will end our session.
__________________________________________
Reference to Paul is in Seth Speaks - Session 586
In that session, he talks of the three men whose lives became confused
in history and merged and who became known as Christ. He said the
entity was born once as John the Baptist, one as the personality that
most stories of Christ refer to and once as Paul. When Paul reemerges
historically, he will carry within Him the characteristics of all
three personalities.
You really need to read the whole session, as it is too long to print,
but it's very interesting. Seth said, " Paul was to implement the
spiritual ideas of Christ in physical terms, however he grew the
seeds of an organization that would smother the ideas. He lingered
after Christ, as John the Baptist came before. Together the three
spanned some time period......John and the historical Christ each
performed their roles and were satisfied that they had done so. Paul
alone was left at the end unsatisfied and so it is about his
personality that the future Christ will form. .....the entity of which
these personalities are part, that entity, which you may call the
Christ entity, was aware of these issues. The earthly personalities
were not aware of them, although in periods of trance and exaltation,
much was made known to them..."
He went on to say that the third personality of Christ (Paul) will
indeed be known as a great psychic, for it is He who will teach
humanity to use those inner senses that alone make true spirituality
possible. Slayers and victims will change roles as reincarnational
memories rise to the surface of consciousness. Through the
development of these abilities, the sacredness of all life will be
intimately recognized and appreciated.
Seth said, "one man had already been born in India, in a small
province near Calcutta, but his ministry will seem to remain
comparatively local for his lifetime.
Another will be born in Africa, a black man whose main work will be
done in Indonesia. The expectations were set long ago in your terms,
and will be fed by new prophets until the third personality of Christ
does indeed emerge. He will lead man behind the symbolism upon which
religion has relied and will emphasize individual spiritual
experience, the expansiveness of soul, and teach man to recognize the
multitudinous aspects of his own reality.."