Discussion:
#1 Introduction to Miracles
(too old to reply)
HappyMike
2010-08-15 13:33:04 UTC
Permalink
I was just reading the Urtext for the second time since it became
public (I read it once back then) and it seems pretty interesting with
a little different slant on the material with Jesus' personal dialog.
I'm actually pulling this off of the I work Miracles website for us.
Not sure if its to much info to start a discussion but I thought we
could just see how it goes. I'm open to whatever works for us all. So
I thought we could read this and make any comments on things that come
up etc. Maybe the NG is calm enough now that we can talk about issues
that we are working in regards to this reading..?


INTRODUCTION TO MIRACLES

It is crucial to say first that this is a required course. Only the
time you take it is voluntary. Free will does not mean that you
establish the curriculum. It means only that you can elect what to
take when. It is just because you are not ready to do what you should
elect to do that time exists at all. (You will see miracles through
your hands through me. You should begin each day with the prayer "Help
me to perform whatever miracles you want of me today.")

1. The first thing to remember about miracles is that there is no
order of difficulty among them. One is not harder or bigger than
another. They are all the same.

2. Miracles do not matter. They are quite unimportant.

3. They occur naturally as an expression of love. The real miracle is
the love that inspires them. In this sense, everything that comes from
love is a miracle.

a. This explains the first point related to the lack of order. ALL
expressions of love are maximal.

b. This is why the "thing in itself" does not matter. The only
thing that matters is the Source, and this is far beyond human
evaluation.

(Questions and Answers relating to the first three points.) QUESTION
(Helen): Would you regard this communication as a kind of miracle?
ANSWER: There is nothing special or surprising about this at all. The
ONE thing that happened was the Universal Miracle which was the
experience of intense love that you have felt. (Don't get embarrassed
by the idea of love. Embarrassment is only a form of fear, and
actually a particularly dangerous form because it reflects
egocentricity. Do not feel guilty about the fact that you are doubting
this. Just re-read them and their truth will come to you. I love you,
and I am not afraid or embarrassed or doubtful. MY strength will
support you, so don't worry, and leave the rest to me. But when you
see Bill, be SURE you tell him how much he helped you through by
giving you the right message, and don't bother with worrying about how
you received it. That doesn't matter either. You were just afraid.)

(Helen fearful in taxi about a communication which related to Dave's
healing and Jonathan's hernia. She thought it would be safer to
dissociate the two. Instructions were: refer to point 1 and re-read
NOW.)

4. All miracles mean Life, and God is the giver of Life. He will
direct you VERY specifically.

(Plan ahead is good advice in this world, where you should and must
control and direct where you have accepted responsibility. But the
Universal Plan is in more appropriate hands. You will know all you
need to know. Make NO attempts to plan ahead in this respect.)

5. Miracles are habits, and should be involuntary. They should not be
under conscious control. Consciously selected miracles are usually
misguided, and this will make the talent useless.

6. Miracles are natural. When they do NOT occur something has gone
wrong.

7. Miracles are everyone's right, but purification is necessary first.

8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.

9. Miracles are a kind of exchange. Like all expressions of love,
which are ALWAYS miraculous in the true sense, the exchange reverses
the physical laws.

10. A miracle is a reversal of the physical order because it brings
more love to the giver AND the receiver. (A miracle is misunderstood
when it is regarded as a spectacle.)

11. The use of miracles as a spectacle to INDUCE belief is wrong. They
are really used for and by believers. (Helen has some fear about 11
and doubt about 9 and 10. Probably doubt induced by fear of 11).
(When you say, "If you want me to I will" please add "and if you DON'T
want me to I won't." This is the RIGHT use of inhibition. There has to
be SOME control over learning for channelizing purposes. Remember
retroactive inhibition which should be easy enough for you. Sometimes
the new learning is the more important, and HAS to inhibit the old.
It's a form of correction.)

12. Prayer is the medium of miracles. Prayer is the natural
communication of the Created with the Creator. Through prayer, love is
received, and through miracles love is expressed.

12a. Miracles are thought-creations. Thought can create lower-order or
higher-order realities. This is the basic distinction between
intellectualization and thinking. One creates the physical, and the
other the spiritual, and we believe in what we create.

13. A miracle is a beginning and an ending. It thus abolishes time. It
is always an affirmation of re-birth, which seems to go back, but
really goes forward. It undoes the past in the present, and thus
releases the future.

14. Miracles attest to truth. They are convincing because they arise
from conviction. Without conviction, they deteriorate into magic,
which is mindless, and therefore destructive, or rather, the
uncreative use of Mind.

15. Each day should be devoted to miracles. (God created time so that
man could use it creatively, and convince himself of his own ability
to create. Time is a teaching device, and a means to an end. It will
cease when it is no longer useful for facilitating learning.)
(SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS: Notes on this course have to be taken only
under good learning conditions. The same goes for review periods. I
will tell you when, but REMEMBER TO ASK.)

16. Miracles are teaching devices for demonstrating that it is more
blessed to give than to receive. They simultaneously increase the
reserve strength of the giver, and supply the lack of strength in the
receiver. BE VERY CAREFUL in interpreting this. INSTRUCTIONS: The
purpose of this course is integration. I told you that you will not be
able to use it right until you have taken it. As long as your
identification vacillates, (and Bill's is weak) you cannot accept the
gift that belongs to you. You are still vacillating between
recognizing the gift and throwing it away. Bill regards himself as too
weak to accept it. You do not yet know its healing power. After you
have passed the course, you will accept it and keep it and use it.
That is the final exam, which you will have no trouble in passing.
Midterm marks are not entered on the permanent record.

17. Miracles are the absence of the body. They are sudden shifts into
invisibility, away from lower order reality. That is why they heal.

18. A miracle is a service. It is the maximal service that one soul
can render another. It is a way of loving your neighbor as yourself.
The doer recognizes his own and his neighbor's inestimable value
simultaneously. (This is why no areas of hatred can be retained. If
you retain them, your own value is no longer inestimable, because you
are evaluating it as X or infinity minus that amount. This is
meaningless mathematically, which uses the term "inestimable" only in
the very literal sense. Pun intended especially for Bill, (who
originally did not get it.) Intended as a special sign of love.)

19. Miracles rest on the law and order of eternity, not of time.

20. Miracles are an industrial necessity. Industry depends on
cooperation, and cooperation depends on miracles. (see /acim_page_ 4)

21. Miracles are cobwebs of iron. They unite human frailty to the
strength of God. (Helen considered changing "iron" to "steel".
CORRECTION: No. Steel would NOT be a better word. Steel is very useful
but it would have to be tempered by fire. Iron is the raw material.
The point of miracles is that they replace fire, thus making it
unnecessary.) (continued below)

22. Miracles are natural expressions of total forgiveness. Through
miracles, man accepts God's forgiveness by extending it to others. The
second step is inherent in the first, because light cannot tolerate
darkness. Light dispels darkness automatically, by definition.
EXPLANATORY INSTRUCTIONS: Miracles are associated with fear only
because of the fallacy that darkness can hide. Man believes that what
he cannot see does not exist, and his physical eyes cannot see in the
dark. This is a very primitive solution, and has led to a denial of
the spiritual eye, which always depends on light. Remember the
Biblical injunction: "May I never forget that THINE eye is ever upon
me, beholding the evil and the good."

There are two stages, one lower and one higher, which are involved in
the escape from darkness:

1) The recognition that darkness CANNOT hide. This usually does entail
fear.

2) The recognition that there is nothing you WANT to hide, even if
you could. This brings escape from fear.

Corrections re point 21 (cobwebs of iron.) "This is upside down as
stated. The part about 'uniting human frailty with the strength of
God' is all right, but the explanation stops too soon. If iron is the
'raw material', cobwebs can't become the iron. That is only the way it
seems, because cobwebs are associated with the frailty and iron with
strength. If you look carefully at the phrasing, you will see it is
reversed (one point already tells you that miracles reverse the
physical or lower order laws.)

The raw material, iron, is heavy but crude, and stands for the body,
which is a crude creation. The cobweb concept is closer to how the
body SHOULD be regarded, e., as an airy and temporary home, which can
just be blown away with a slight breeze.

Point 21 should read: "A miracle reawakens the awareness that the
spirit, and not the body, is the altar of Truth. This is the
recognition that leads to the healing power of the miracle."

22a. A miracle rearranges the order of perception, and places the
levels in their true perspective. This heals at all levels, because
all sickness comes from confusing the levels.

(Tell Bill about the idea (which is still dim to Helen) that the
reason is not that you both distantiate, doubt, or cannot believe. It
is more of a reaction formation against a pull which you both
recognize is so intense that you are afraid that you will be uprooted.
But remember that a cobweb is really stronger than the iron, if you
see it properly. This fear is also why you couldn't get the point
straight.)

By the way, it is not true that you are both JUST SCRIBES. You might
remember that the Scribes were very wise and holy men and are even
sometimes spelled with a capital S. If you want to go further, you
might change the meaning of 'just' from 'merely' to 'honest', a term
used in the Bible in association with 'might' or 'strength.' Tell Bill
you couldn't make that pun if the original phrasing had been singular.
(Helen aside about liking 'assumption of failure' more.) ANSWER: It
was cuter, but this one MEANS more. The REAL reason you don't like it
is because it refers to you in a VERY lofty position. This makes you
nervous.)

CORRECTION: And don't lose sight of the emphasis on cooperation, or
the NOT SINGULAR. That point about "industrial necessity" should read
"corporate", referring to the body of Christ which is a way of
referring to the Church. But the Church of God is only the sum of the
souls he created, which IS the corporate body of Christ. Correct to
read: "A Miracle makes souls one in God", and leave in the next part
about cooperation.

FURTHER CORRECTION: "God" should read " Christ". The Father and the
Son are not identical, but you CAN say "Like Father, LIKE Son."

(Remind Bill to get another notebook. I don't give up as easily as HE
does. If I could get YOU to listen, which was a miracle in itself, I
can get him to register. He should appreciate this more than anyone
else, having had some trouble with this problem himself.)

"LORD HEAL ME" IS THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PRAYER. This also means "Lord
atone for me," because the only thing man should pray for is
forgiveness. He HAS everything else.

Now take this personally, and listen to Divine logic:

If, when you have been forgiven, you have everything else, and
If you have been forgiven,
Then you HAVE everything else.

This happens to be the simplest of all propositions.

IF P then Q
P
Therefore, Q

The real question is, is P true. If you will review the evidence, I
think you will find this inescapable. I went on very personal record
to this effect, and I am the only completely True Witness for God. You
have every right to examine MY credentials - in fact, I urge you to do
so. You haven't read the Bible in years.

SPECIAL EXPLANATORY NOTE: As soon as you (Helen and Bill) have entered
the second phase, you will be not only willing to enter into
communion, but will also understand peace and joy. Your commitment is
not yet total. That is why you still have more to learn than to teach.
When your equilibrium stabilizes, you can teach AS MUCH as you learn.
This will give you the proper sense of balance. Meanwhile, remember
that NO EFFORT IS WASTED. Unless you remember this, you cannot avail
yourself of MY efforts, which are limitless.

(Have a good day.) Since only eternity is real, why not use the
illusion of time constructively? You might remember that "underneath
are the Everlasting Arms."

BIBLICAL QUOTATION: " If you are ashamed of me before men, I will be
ashamed of you before God." (Helen's question of misquote.) is
interpreted as a threat ONLY as long you remain in the first step.
(see middle of p. 3 for steps.) What it REALLY means is that if you
are ashamed of me (or embarrassed by love), you will project and
therefore make it impossible for me to reach you. Make every effort
you can NOT to do this. I will help you as much as you will let me.

23. Miracles make time and tide wait for all men. They can heal the
sick and raise the dead because man himself made both death and taxes,
and can abolish both. Note: Tax also means "strain". (One definition
for miracles is: "That which, or one who, is of surpassing excellence
or merit.") (from Dictionary, third definition.) YOU are a miracle.
God creates only "that which, or one who, is of surpassing excellence
or merit". Man is capable of this kind of creation, too, being in the
image and likeness of his own Creator. Anything else is only his own
nightmare, and does not exist. Only the Creations of Light are real.

23a. Miracles are a part of an interlocking chain of forgiveness
which, when completed, is the Atonement. This process works all the
time and in all dimensions of time. (example given of Helen's report
rewrite for Esther: Esther had hurt something you loved, by writing a
report you regarded as very bad. You atoned for her by writing one in
her name that was very good. Actually, it was not your responsibility
professionally to do this, but because you DO love the Shield you
recognized that in this case, you ARE your brother's keeper. While you
did not cancel Esther's sin (later defined as "lack of love") you DID
cancel out its EFFECTS.

Someday I want to tell Esther that not only is she forgiven but that
the effects of all her sins are cancelled. This is what I have already
told you. When I can tell her, she will be afraid for a long time,
because she will remember many things, consciously or unconsciously,
including the Shield report, a lack of love which you cancelled out in
advance by a miracle of devotion.

I am in charge of the process of Atonement, which I undertook to
begin. My Atonement was for the canceling out of all sins (e., lack of
love) which human beings could not otherwise correct. That is what the
Biblical statement "underneath are the Everlasting Arms" means. (Helen
explanation: This means that He will backstop whenever human miracles
will not suffice for atonement purposes. However, it is perfectly
clear that when a person can atone by miracles, both giver and
receiver are atoning. It is better to atone this way because of the
mutual benefits involved.) "Inasmuch as you do it unto the least of
these, my children" really ends with "you do it unto yourself and
ME." The reason why YOU come before me is because I do not need
miracles for my own Atonement, but I stand at the end in case YOU fail
temporarily.

SPECIAL EXPLANATION: (In response to Helen request regarding possible
corrections.) Change the word "sin" to "absence of love". Sin is a
manmade word with threat connotations which he made up himself. No
REAL threat is involved anywhere. Just because "nature abhors a
vacuum," which is true enough, it does NOT follow that "a vacuum is
filled with hellfire." Nothing is gained by frightening yourself, and
it is very destructive. Miracles need freedom from fear. Part of their
Atonement value involves just that. Note that the word "atone" really
means "undo."

The purpose of the Atonement is to restore everything TO you. (That
is, to restore the awareness. Later clarification.) You had everything
when you were created, just as everyone did.

Having been restored to your original state, you naturally become part
of the Atonement yourself. You now share MY inability to tolerate the
lack of love in yourself and in everyone else, and MUST join the GREAT
CRUSADE to correct it. The slogan for this Crusade is "Listen, Learn,
and DO." This means:

Listen to MY Voice, Learn to undo the error, and DO something to
correct it.

The first two are not enough. The real members of MY party are ACTIVE
workers.

The power to work Miracles BELONGS to you. I will create the right
opportunities for you to do them. But you must be ready and willing to
do them, since you are already able to. Doing them will bring
conviction in the ability. I repeat that you will see Miracles through
your hands through MINE. Conviction really comes through
accomplishment. Remember that ability is the potential, Achievement is
its expression, and Atonement is the Purpose.

24. A miracle is a Universal Blessing from God through Me to all My
Brothers. EXPLANATION: You once said that souls cannot rest until
everyone has found salvation. This happens to be true. It is the
privilege of the forgiven to forgive. The Disciples were officially
and specifically told to heal others, as Physicians of the Lord. They
were also told to heal themselves, and were promised that I would
never leave them or forsake them. Atonement is the natural profession
of the Children of God, because they have professed Me.

(ASIDE: Tell Bill that that is what Professor really means. As an
Assoc. Prof., he must become associated with My strength. As an Asst.
Prof., you must assist both him and Me. The Children need both
strength and help. You cannot help until you are strong. The
Everlasting Arms are your strength, and the Wisdom of God is your
help.)

"Heaven and Earth shall pass away" means that they will not always
exist as separate states. My Word, which is the Resurrection and the
Light, shall not pass away, because Life is Eternal. YOU are the work
of God, and His Work is wholly loveable and wholly loving. This is how
man MUST think of himself in his heart, because this is what he IS.
Add: "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he."
HappyD
2010-08-15 14:27:20 UTC
Permalink
Seems to me like too much material at once. What do you guys think?
maybe I could post a little less so its no so overwhelming?

Here are some brief thought's I had about the material.


“(Questions and Answers relating to the first three points.) QUESTION
(Helen): Would you regard this communication as a kind of miracle?
ANSWER: There is nothing special or surprising about this at all. The
ONE thing that happened was the Universal Miracle which was the
experience of intense love that you have felt.”

* Interesting. I would regard this as a miracle and very surprising. I
wonder why Jesus does not? Maybe to make a point about God being the
source of miracles..?


“4. All miracles mean Life, and God is the giver of Life. He will
direct you VERY
specifically.
(Plan ahead is good advice in this world, where you should and must
control and direct where you have accepted responsibility. But the
Universal Plan is in more appropriate hands. You will know all you
need to know. Make NO attempts to plan ahead in this respect.)”
* 4 needs a little work by me. I always thought that we turn
everything over to the Holy Spirit. I know I need to make plans but I
know I must turn the outcome of those plans over. Example: My work
schedule is constantly changing but I must have one in order to
function. The more I try and control it the worse it gets. Its just
better to make it and then change it all the time because of all the
variable that I can’t seem to control.


“22. Miracles are natural expressions of total forgiveness. Through
miracles, man accepts God's forgiveness by extending it to others.
The
second step is inherent in the first, because light cannot tolerate
darkness. Light dispels darkness automatically, by definition.
EXPLANATORY INSTRUCTIONS: Miracles are associated with fear only
because of the fallacy that darkness can hide. Man believes that what
he cannot see does not exist, and his physical eyes cannot see in the
dark. This is a very primitive solution, and has led to a denial of
the spiritual eye, which always depends on light. Remember the
Biblical injunction: "May I never forget that THINE eye is ever upon
me, beholding the evil and the good."
“There are two stages, one lower and one higher, which are involved
in
the escape from
darkness:
1) The recognition that darkness CANNOT hide. This usually does
entail
fear. 2) The recognition that there is nothing you WANT to hide, even
if
you could. This brings escape from fear.”
* 22. I don’t totally understand this does anyone have any ideas on
how bringing darkness to the light and not hiding the darkness looks
in with an experience? Is it like a gay person coming out of the
closet or being honest with yourself or others etc.?







“(Remind Bill to get another notebook. I don't give up as easily as
HE
does. If I could get YOU to listen, which was a miracle in itself, I
can get him to register. He should appreciate this more than anyone
else, having had some trouble with this problem himself.)”

Here Jesus seems to be making a statement that conflicts with the
earlier statement that him talking to Helen was not anything special
nor a miracle. But I guess it took a miracle to get it to happen.




"LORD HEAL ME" IS THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PRAYER. This also means "Lord
atone for me," because the only thing man should pray for is
forgiveness. He HAS everything else.”

* This prayer is nice to know.


“Someday I want to tell Esther that not only is she forgiven but that
the effects of all her sins are cancelled. This is what I have
already
told you. When I can tell her, she will be afraid for a long time,
because she will remember many things, consciously or unconsciously,
including the Shield report, a lack of love which you cancelled out
in
advance by a miracle of devotion.”

* This seems like it could get kind of codependent after all my mother
has been cleaning up after my alcoholic brothers mess for years with
him needing money, bailed out of jail, covering for him with his lacks
of love messes and on-and-on. It never seemed to help.
Carrie
2010-08-15 16:08:16 UTC
Permalink
I was just coming back on here to suggest this. I like having you posting
something, to start, but it does seem like a lot at once. Though, on the
other hand, anyone reading it can see, and pick out what gets their
attention and they feel guided to comment on.
Going over the Urtext is, in a way, like our own "editing" of it, at this
time. Maybe at some point, it will mean and turn into something different
than the first few times it was edited (by other people)?
Like an on-going, flexible way. Basics, and what we, now in 2010 (illusion
time) have learned from experience and growth, now make of it.
I kept notebooks, way back when I started the course in 1991, I'd write
down quotes I liked, and sometimes what I thought they might mean, like my
own notes. Looking over these now, almost 20 years later, sometimes I think
"I was writing notes then I didn't really understand, to my future self".
I also remember thinking, at the time, I could never write a book, or
publish my notes, because of the course being copyrighted! (though I know,
it could have been submitted to Wapnick for approval and a percentage of
sales or whatever). Little did I imagine, at the time, how that was to
change. Not that I published a book of my notes, but that now I legally and
freely could.
Also, the idea I now believe (more than at that time) one person can share
beliefs and their "take" on this, but can't tell someone else what it means
and how they should believe it.
it says something like that at the beginning of Journey Beyond Words.
like you're not to learn it, the words, so you can tell them to your
brothers. But to learn it, and exerience it and live it.



"HappyD" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:a0a61093-7977-4ebe-9d2f-***@z30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Seems to me like too much material at once. What do you guys think?
maybe I could post a little less so its no so overwhelming?

Here are some brief thought's I had about the material.


“(Questions and Answers relating to the first three points.) QUESTION
(Helen): Would you regard this communication as a kind of miracle?
ANSWER: There is nothing special or surprising about this at all. The
ONE thing that happened was the Universal Miracle which was the
experience of intense love that you have felt.”

* Interesting. I would regard this as a miracle and very surprising. I
wonder why Jesus does not? Maybe to make a point about God being the
source of miracles..?


“4. All miracles mean Life, and God is the giver of Life. He will
direct you VERY
specifically.
(Plan ahead is good advice in this world, where you should and must
control and direct where you have accepted responsibility. But the
Universal Plan is in more appropriate hands. You will know all you
need to know. Make NO attempts to plan ahead in this respect.)”
* 4 needs a little work by me. I always thought that we turn
everything over to the Holy Spirit. I know I need to make plans but I
know I must turn the outcome of those plans over. Example: My work
schedule is constantly changing but I must have one in order to
function. The more I try and control it the worse it gets. Its just
better to make it and then change it all the time because of all the
variable that I can’t seem to control.


“22. Miracles are natural expressions of total forgiveness. Through
miracles, man accepts God's forgiveness by extending it to others.
The
second step is inherent in the first, because light cannot tolerate
darkness. Light dispels darkness automatically, by definition.
EXPLANATORY INSTRUCTIONS: Miracles are associated with fear only
because of the fallacy that darkness can hide. Man believes that what
he cannot see does not exist, and his physical eyes cannot see in the
dark. This is a very primitive solution, and has led to a denial of
the spiritual eye, which always depends on light. Remember the
Biblical injunction: "May I never forget that THINE eye is ever upon
me, beholding the evil and the good."
“There are two stages, one lower and one higher, which are involved
in
the escape from
darkness:
1) The recognition that darkness CANNOT hide. This usually does
entail
fear. 2) The recognition that there is nothing you WANT to hide, even
if
you could. This brings escape from fear.”
* 22. I don’t totally understand this does anyone have any ideas on
how bringing darkness to the light and not hiding the darkness looks
in with an experience? Is it like a gay person coming out of the
closet or being honest with yourself or others etc.?







“(Remind Bill to get another notebook. I don't give up as easily as
HE
does. If I could get YOU to listen, which was a miracle in itself, I
can get him to register. He should appreciate this more than anyone
else, having had some trouble with this problem himself.)”

Here Jesus seems to be making a statement that conflicts with the
earlier statement that him talking to Helen was not anything special
nor a miracle. But I guess it took a miracle to get it to happen.




"LORD HEAL ME" IS THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PRAYER. This also means "Lord
atone for me," because the only thing man should pray for is
forgiveness. He HAS everything else.”

* This prayer is nice to know.


“Someday I want to tell Esther that not only is she forgiven but that
the effects of all her sins are cancelled. This is what I have
already
told you. When I can tell her, she will be afraid for a long time,
because she will remember many things, consciously or unconsciously,
including the Shield report, a lack of love which you cancelled out
in
advance by a miracle of devotion.”

* This seems like it could get kind of codependent after all my mother
has been cleaning up after my alcoholic brothers mess for years with
him needing money, bailed out of jail, covering for him with his lacks
of love messes and on-and-on. It never seemed to help.
r***@tahoe.blue
2010-10-12 14:18:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carrie
“(Questions and Answers relating to the first three points.) QUESTION
(Helen): Would you regard this communication as a kind of miracle?
ANSWER: There is nothing special or surprising about this at all. The
ONE thing that happened was the Universal Miracle which was the
experience of intense love that you have felt.”
* Interesting. I would regard this as a miracle and very surprising. I
wonder why Jesus does not? Maybe to make a point about God being the
source of miracles..?
Good morning.

Perhaps this was discussed further down the thread, but God is not the
source of miracles, as miracles are reparative, and God would know no
need of repair. Another way of saying this would be: you need your
forgiveness, not God's.

Richard
Sidney Lambe
2010-10-23 01:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
Post by Carrie
“(Questions and Answers relating to the first three points.)
QUESTION (Helen): Would you regard this communication as a kind
of miracle? ANSWER: There is nothing special or surprising
about this at all. The ONE thing that happened was the
Universal Miracle which was the experience of intense love that
you have felt.”
* Interesting. I would regard this as a miracle and very
surprising. I wonder why Jesus does not? Maybe to make a point
about God being the source of miracles..?
Good morning.
Perhaps this was discussed further down the thread, but God is
not the source of miracles,
God is the source of everything.
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
as miracles are reparative, and God would know no need of
repair.
Everything is a miracle. Everything is something created from
no-thing by an act of Intent/Will.

God knows any need that any of Its parts feel. And _everything_
is a part of God.
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
Another way of saying this would be: you need your forgiveness,
not God's.
Right conclusion, wrong justification.
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
Richard
Sid
--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
r***@tahoe.blue
2010-10-26 14:09:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sidney Lambe
God knows any need that any of Its parts feel. And _everything_
is a part of God.
If God knows me in pain, and in need of a miracle, God knows
imperfection, making the error real.

Sorry, Sid, I'll not be dragging God into the illusion.

R
Sidney Lambe
2010-10-26 13:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
Post by Sidney Lambe
God knows any need that any of Its parts feel. And _everything_
is a part of God.
If God knows me in pain, and in need of a miracle, God knows
imperfection, making the error real.
You are blaming something on God that is your own fault.
God delegates. It gives us the ability to make our own reality
and says 'go for it'.
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
Sorry, Sid, I'll not be dragging God into the illusion.
So you are one of these fools who think that the nature of
reality is whatever they want it to be.

You can't dismiss that which you are a living part of. And
will be forever.

You can only delude yourself.

Sid
--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
r***@tahoe.blue
2010-10-28 14:50:22 UTC
Permalink
On 26 Oct 2010 15:28:59 +0200, Sidney Lambe
Post by Sidney Lambe
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
Sorry, Sid, I'll not be dragging God into the illusion.
So you are one of these fools who think that the nature of
reality is whatever they want it to be.
No, but I am one of those fools who thought he was discussing the
Course. My bad.

R
Sidney Lambe
2010-10-28 14:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
On 26 Oct 2010 15:28:59 +0200, Sidney Lambe
Post by Sidney Lambe
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
Sorry, Sid, I'll not be dragging God into the illusion.
So you are one of these fools who think that the nature of
reality is whatever they want it to be.
No, but I am one of those fools who thought he was discussing
the Course. My bad.
R
I discuss from the vantage of my best understanding of the true
nature of reality, not for or against yet another book with
proponents who claim that it is the sole repository of The Whole
Truth.

Like all such books, it has some Truth and some Falsehood. Because
it was produced by people who weren't developed enough to see past
their own egos.

Sid
--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
r***@tahoe.blue
2010-10-29 15:11:57 UTC
Permalink
On 28 Oct 2010 16:04:53 +0200, Sidney Lambe
Post by Sidney Lambe
I discuss from the vantage of my best understanding of the true
nature of reality, not for or against yet another book with
proponents who claim that it is the sole repository of The Whole
Truth.
This ignores the fact that the Course says of itself that it is NOT
the a repository of ( fill in the blank), and certainly not the "Whole
Truth," whatever that may be. If you want to take issue with
"proponents," that's something else entirely.

But, why would you come to discuss the nature of true reality from the
vantage of your "best understanding" on a newsgroup for discussion of
ACIM? Did you just pick this group out of a hat?

R
Sidney Lambe
2010-10-29 14:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@tahoe.blue
On 28 Oct 2010 16:04:53 +0200, Sidney Lambe
Post by Sidney Lambe
I discuss from the vantage of my best understanding of the true
nature of reality, not for or against yet another book with
proponents who claim that it is the sole repository of The Whole
Truth.
This ignores the fact that the Course says of itself that it is NOT
the a repository of ( fill in the blank), and certainly not the "Whole
Truth," whatever that may be. If you want to take issue with
"proponents," that's something else entirely.
But, why would you come to discuss the nature of true reality from the
vantage of your "best understanding" on a newsgroup for discussion of
ACIM? Did you just pick this group out of a hat?
R
Any discussion group worth considering offers both pro and con
opinions of the subject under discussion.

There's nothing in the name of this one that says it is reserved
for pro ACIM opinions only.

In order for people to truly understand it, objective and fair
criticism is necessary.

Sid
--
We are magickal beings and it's all Good.
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
Carrie
2010-08-15 15:59:25 UTC
Permalink
"HappyMike" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:49bb0d0a-0ed0-4153-b2ae-***@u31g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
I was just reading the Urtext for the second time since it became
public (I read it once back then) and it seems pretty interesting with
a little different slant on the material with Jesus' personal dialog.
I'm actually pulling this off of the I work Miracles website for us.
Not sure if its to much info to start a discussion but I thought we
could just see how it goes. I'm open to whatever works for us all. So
I thought we could read this and make any comments on things that come
up etc. Maybe the NG is calm enough now that we can talk about issues
that we are working in regards to this reading..?


INTRODUCTION TO MIRACLES

It is crucial to say first that this is a required course. Only the
time you take it is voluntary. Free will does not mean that you
establish the curriculum. It means only that you can elect what to
take when. It is just because you are not ready to do what you should
elect to do that time exists at all. (You will see miracles through
your hands through me. You should begin each day with the prayer "Help
me to perform whatever miracles you want of me today.")

1. The first thing to remember about miracles is that there is no
order of difficulty among them. One is not harder or bigger than
another. They are all the same.

2. Miracles do not matter. They are quite unimportant.

3. They occur naturally as an expression of love. The real miracle is
the love that inspires them. In this sense, everything that comes from
love is a miracle.

a. This explains the first point related to the lack of order. ALL
expressions of love are maximal.

b. This is why the "thing in itself" does not matter. The only
thing that matters is the Source, and this is far beyond human
evaluation.

(Questions and Answers relating to the first three points.) QUESTION
(Helen): Would you regard this communication as a kind of miracle?
ANSWER: There is nothing special or surprising about this at all. The
ONE thing that happened was the Universal Miracle which was the
experience of intense love that you have felt. (Don't get embarrassed
by the idea of love. Embarrassment is only a form of fear, and
actually a particularly dangerous form because it reflects
egocentricity. Do not feel guilty about the fact that you are doubting
this. Just re-read them and their truth will come to you. I love you,
and I am not afraid or embarrassed or doubtful. MY strength will
support you, so don't worry, and leave the rest to me. But when you
see Bill, be SURE you tell him how much he helped you through by
giving you the right message, and don't bother with worrying about how
you received it. That doesn't matter either. You were just afraid.)

(Helen fearful in taxi about a communication which related to Dave's
healing and Jonathan's hernia. She thought it would be safer to
dissociate the two. Instructions were: refer to point 1 and re-read
NOW.)

4. All miracles mean Life, and God is the giver of Life. He will
direct you VERY specifically.

(Plan ahead is good advice in this world, where you should and must
control and direct where you have accepted responsibility. But the
Universal Plan is in more appropriate hands. You will know all you
need to know. Make NO attempts to plan ahead in this respect.)

5. Miracles are habits, and should be involuntary. They should not be
under conscious control. Consciously selected miracles are usually
misguided, and this will make the talent useless.

6. Miracles are natural. When they do NOT occur something has gone
wrong.

7. Miracles are everyone's right, but purification is necessary first.

8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.

9. Miracles are a kind of exchange. Like all expressions of love,
which are ALWAYS miraculous in the true sense, the exchange reverses
the physical laws.

10. A miracle is a reversal of the physical order because it brings
more love to the giver AND the receiver. (A miracle is misunderstood
when it is regarded as a spectacle.)

11. The use of miracles as a spectacle to INDUCE belief is wrong. They
are really used for and by believers. (Helen has some fear about 11
and doubt about 9 and 10. Probably doubt induced by fear of 11).
(When you say, "If you want me to I will" please add "and if you DON'T
want me to I won't." This is the RIGHT use of inhibition. There has to
be SOME control over learning for channelizing purposes. Remember
retroactive inhibition which should be easy enough for you. Sometimes
the new learning is the more important, and HAS to inhibit the old.
It's a form of correction.)

12. Prayer is the medium of miracles. Prayer is the natural
communication of the Created with the Creator. Through prayer, love is
received, and through miracles love is expressed.

12a. Miracles are thought-creations. Thought can create lower-order or
higher-order realities. This is the basic distinction between
intellectualization and thinking. One creates the physical, and the
other the spiritual, and we believe in what we create.

13. A miracle is a beginning and an ending. It thus abolishes time. It
is always an affirmation of re-birth, which seems to go back, but
really goes forward. It undoes the past in the present, and thus
releases the future.

14. Miracles attest to truth. They are convincing because they arise
from conviction. Without conviction, they deteriorate into magic,
which is mindless, and therefore destructive, or rather, the
uncreative use of Mind.

15. Each day should be devoted to miracles. (God created time so that
man could use it creatively, and convince himself of his own ability
to create. Time is a teaching device, and a means to an end. It will
cease when it is no longer useful for facilitating learning.)
(SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS: Notes on this course have to be taken only
under good learning conditions. The same goes for review periods. I
will tell you when, but REMEMBER TO ASK.)

16. Miracles are teaching devices for demonstrating that it is more
blessed to give than to receive. They simultaneously increase the
reserve strength of the giver, and supply the lack of strength in the
receiver. BE VERY CAREFUL in interpreting this. INSTRUCTIONS: The
purpose of this course is integration. I told you that you will not be
able to use it right until you have taken it. As long as your
identification vacillates, (and Bill's is weak) you cannot accept the
gift that belongs to you. You are still vacillating between
recognizing the gift and throwing it away. Bill regards himself as too
weak to accept it. You do not yet know its healing power. After you
have passed the course, you will accept it and keep it and use it.
That is the final exam, which you will have no trouble in passing.
Midterm marks are not entered on the permanent record.

17. Miracles are the absence of the body. They are sudden shifts into
invisibility, away from lower order reality. That is why they heal.

18. A miracle is a service. It is the maximal service that one soul
can render another. It is a way of loving your neighbor as yourself.
The doer recognizes his own and his neighbor's inestimable value
simultaneously. (This is why no areas of hatred can be retained. If
you retain them, your own value is no longer inestimable, because you
are evaluating it as X or infinity minus that amount. This is
meaningless mathematically, which uses the term "inestimable" only in
the very literal sense. Pun intended especially for Bill, (who
originally did not get it.) Intended as a special sign of love.)

19. Miracles rest on the law and order of eternity, not of time.

20. Miracles are an industrial necessity. Industry depends on
cooperation, and cooperation depends on miracles. (see /acim_page_ 4)

21. Miracles are cobwebs of iron. They unite human frailty to the
strength of God. (Helen considered changing "iron" to "steel".
CORRECTION: No. Steel would NOT be a better word. Steel is very useful
but it would have to be tempered by fire. Iron is the raw material.
The point of miracles is that they replace fire, thus making it
unnecessary.) (continued below)

22. Miracles are natural expressions of total forgiveness. Through
miracles, man accepts God's forgiveness by extending it to others. The
second step is inherent in the first, because light cannot tolerate
darkness. Light dispels darkness automatically, by definition.
EXPLANATORY INSTRUCTIONS: Miracles are associated with fear only
because of the fallacy that darkness can hide. Man believes that what
he cannot see does not exist, and his physical eyes cannot see in the
dark. This is a very primitive solution, and has led to a denial of
the spiritual eye, which always depends on light. Remember the
Biblical injunction: "May I never forget that THINE eye is ever upon
me, beholding the evil and the good."

There are two stages, one lower and one higher, which are involved in
the escape from darkness:

1) The recognition that darkness CANNOT hide. This usually does entail
fear.

2) The recognition that there is nothing you WANT to hide, even if
you could. This brings escape from fear.

Corrections re point 21 (cobwebs of iron.) "This is upside down as
stated. The part about 'uniting human frailty with the strength of
God' is all right, but the explanation stops too soon. If iron is the
'raw material', cobwebs can't become the iron. That is only the way it
seems, because cobwebs are associated with the frailty and iron with
strength. If you look carefully at the phrasing, you will see it is
reversed (one point already tells you that miracles reverse the
physical or lower order laws.)

The raw material, iron, is heavy but crude, and stands for the body,
which is a crude creation. The cobweb concept is closer to how the
body SHOULD be regarded, e., as an airy and temporary home, which can
just be blown away with a slight breeze.

Point 21 should read: "A miracle reawakens the awareness that the
spirit, and not the body, is the altar of Truth. This is the
recognition that leads to the healing power of the miracle."

22a. A miracle rearranges the order of perception, and places the
levels in their true perspective. This heals at all levels, because
all sickness comes from confusing the levels.

(Tell Bill about the idea (which is still dim to Helen) that the
reason is not that you both distantiate, doubt, or cannot believe. It
is more of a reaction formation against a pull which you both
recognize is so intense that you are afraid that you will be uprooted.
But remember that a cobweb is really stronger than the iron, if you
see it properly. This fear is also why you couldn't get the point
straight.)

By the way, it is not true that you are both JUST SCRIBES. You might
remember that the Scribes were very wise and holy men and are even
sometimes spelled with a capital S. If you want to go further, you
might change the meaning of 'just' from 'merely' to 'honest', a term
used in the Bible in association with 'might' or 'strength.' Tell Bill
you couldn't make that pun if the original phrasing had been singular.
(Helen aside about liking 'assumption of failure' more.) ANSWER: It
was cuter, but this one MEANS more. The REAL reason you don't like it
is because it refers to you in a VERY lofty position. This makes you
nervous.)

CORRECTION: And don't lose sight of the emphasis on cooperation, or
the NOT SINGULAR. That point about "industrial necessity" should read
"corporate", referring to the body of Christ which is a way of
referring to the Church. But the Church of God is only the sum of the
souls he created, which IS the corporate body of Christ. Correct to
read: "A Miracle makes souls one in God", and leave in the next part
about cooperation.

FURTHER CORRECTION: "God" should read " Christ". The Father and the
Son are not identical, but you CAN say "Like Father, LIKE Son."

(Remind Bill to get another notebook. I don't give up as easily as HE
does. If I could get YOU to listen, which was a miracle in itself, I
can get him to register. He should appreciate this more than anyone
else, having had some trouble with this problem himself.)

"LORD HEAL ME" IS THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PRAYER. This also means "Lord
atone for me," because the only thing man should pray for is
forgiveness. He HAS everything else.

Now take this personally, and listen to Divine logic:

If, when you have been forgiven, you have everything else, and
If you have been forgiven,
Then you HAVE everything else.

This happens to be the simplest of all propositions.

IF P then Q
P
Therefore, Q

The real question is, is P true. If you will review the evidence, I
think you will find this inescapable. I went on very personal record
to this effect, and I am the only completely True Witness for God. You
have every right to examine MY credentials - in fact, I urge you to do
so. You haven't read the Bible in years.

SPECIAL EXPLANATORY NOTE: As soon as you (Helen and Bill) have entered
the second phase, you will be not only willing to enter into
communion, but will also understand peace and joy. Your commitment is
not yet total. That is why you still have more to learn than to teach.
When your equilibrium stabilizes, you can teach AS MUCH as you learn.
This will give you the proper sense of balance. Meanwhile, remember
that NO EFFORT IS WASTED. Unless you remember this, you cannot avail
yourself of MY efforts, which are limitless.

(Have a good day.) Since only eternity is real, why not use the
illusion of time constructively? You might remember that "underneath
are the Everlasting Arms."

BIBLICAL QUOTATION: " If you are ashamed of me before men, I will be
ashamed of you before God." (Helen's question of misquote.) is
interpreted as a threat ONLY as long you remain in the first step.
(see middle of p. 3 for steps.) What it REALLY means is that if you
are ashamed of me (or embarrassed by love), you will project and
therefore make it impossible for me to reach you. Make every effort
you can NOT to do this. I will help you as much as you will let me.

23. Miracles make time and tide wait for all men. They can heal the
sick and raise the dead because man himself made both death and taxes,
and can abolish both. Note: Tax also means "strain". (One definition
for miracles is: "That which, or one who, is of surpassing excellence
or merit.") (from Dictionary, third definition.) YOU are a miracle.
God creates only "that which, or one who, is of surpassing excellence
or merit". Man is capable of this kind of creation, too, being in the
image and likeness of his own Creator. Anything else is only his own
nightmare, and does not exist. Only the Creations of Light are real.

23a. Miracles are a part of an interlocking chain of forgiveness
which, when completed, is the Atonement. This process works all the
time and in all dimensions of time. (example given of Helen's report
rewrite for Esther: Esther had hurt something you loved, by writing a
report you regarded as very bad. You atoned for her by writing one in
her name that was very good. Actually, it was not your responsibility
professionally to do this, but because you DO love the Shield you
recognized that in this case, you ARE your brother's keeper. While you
did not cancel Esther's sin (later defined as "lack of love") you DID
cancel out its EFFECTS.

Someday I want to tell Esther that not only is she forgiven but that
the effects of all her sins are cancelled. This is what I have already
told you. When I can tell her, she will be afraid for a long time,
because she will remember many things, consciously or unconsciously,
including the Shield report, a lack of love which you cancelled out in
advance by a miracle of devotion.

I am in charge of the process of Atonement, which I undertook to
begin. My Atonement was for the canceling out of all sins (e., lack of
love) which human beings could not otherwise correct. That is what the
Biblical statement "underneath are the Everlasting Arms" means. (Helen
explanation: This means that He will backstop whenever human miracles
will not suffice for atonement purposes. However, it is perfectly
clear that when a person can atone by miracles, both giver and
receiver are atoning. It is better to atone this way because of the
mutual benefits involved.) "Inasmuch as you do it unto the least of
these, my children" really ends with "you do it unto yourself and
ME." The reason why YOU come before me is because I do not need
miracles for my own Atonement, but I stand at the end in case YOU fail
temporarily.

SPECIAL EXPLANATION: (In response to Helen request regarding possible
corrections.) Change the word "sin" to "absence of love". Sin is a
manmade word with threat connotations which he made up himself. No
REAL threat is involved anywhere. Just because "nature abhors a
vacuum," which is true enough, it does NOT follow that "a vacuum is
filled with hellfire." Nothing is gained by frightening yourself, and
it is very destructive. Miracles need freedom from fear. Part of their
Atonement value involves just that. Note that the word "atone" really
means "undo."

The purpose of the Atonement is to restore everything TO you. (That
is, to restore the awareness. Later clarification.) You had everything
when you were created, just as everyone did.

Having been restored to your original state, you naturally become part
of the Atonement yourself. You now share MY inability to tolerate the
lack of love in yourself and in everyone else, and MUST join the GREAT
CRUSADE to correct it. The slogan for this Crusade is "Listen, Learn,
and DO." This means:

Listen to MY Voice, Learn to undo the error, and DO something to
correct it.

The first two are not enough. The real members of MY party are ACTIVE
workers.

The power to work Miracles BELONGS to you. I will create the right
opportunities for you to do them. But you must be ready and willing to
do them, since you are already able to. Doing them will bring
conviction in the ability. I repeat that you will see Miracles through
your hands through MINE. Conviction really comes through
accomplishment. Remember that ability is the potential, Achievement is
its expression, and Atonement is the Purpose.

24. A miracle is a Universal Blessing from God through Me to all My
Brothers. EXPLANATION: You once said that souls cannot rest until
everyone has found salvation. This happens to be true. It is the
privilege of the forgiven to forgive. The Disciples were officially
and specifically told to heal others, as Physicians of the Lord. They
were also told to heal themselves, and were promised that I would
never leave them or forsake them. Atonement is the natural profession
of the Children of God, because they have professed Me.

(ASIDE: Tell Bill that that is what Professor really means. As an
Assoc. Prof., he must become associated with My strength. As an Asst.
Prof., you must assist both him and Me. The Children need both
strength and help. You cannot help until you are strong. The
Everlasting Arms are your strength, and the Wisdom of God is your
help.)

"Heaven and Earth shall pass away" means that they will not always
exist as separate states. My Word, which is the Resurrection and the
Light, shall not pass away, because Life is Eternal. YOU are the work
of God, and His Work is wholly loveable and wholly loving. This is how
man MUST think of himself in his heart, because this is what he IS.
Add: "As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he."

There's a lot in this to think about and discuss. My first thoughts
(maybe more later)...
About the Urtext itself. First time I saw it, it was the pdf version of
it, with the old typewriter print and crossing out and notes in the margin.
Aside from what it said, I felt a feeling of, I guess closeness might be a
good word, for lack of a better one, to Jesus, and those involved in this
first, early srcibing. Like it trying to be given and coming through, and
being taken down (and revised and corrected at times). To get it the way it
was wanted to be.

At first I thought the paragraph about planning ahead contradicted what
the edited version of the course says...

W-135.11. A healed mind does not plan. 2 It carries out the plans that
it receives through listening to wisdom that is not its own. 3 It waits
until it has been taught what should be done, and then proceeds to do it. 4
It does not depend upon itself for anything except its adequacy to fulfill
the plans assigned to it. 5 It is secure in certainty that obstacles can not
impede its progress to accomplishment of any goal that serves the greater
plan established for the good of everyone

But, it (Urtext) goes on to explain what it means, and basically says the
same thing. Maybe evenmore clear, because in the world we do have to plan in
a way. What time to meet someone, something that has be done by a certain
date, etc.

Just my first thoughts on this.
HappyD
2010-08-15 17:18:41 UTC
Permalink
OK I'm going to post less material next time. I'll try and include the
right amount we can discuss and when we 're all ready we can move on.
How does that sound?
Post by HappyMike
I was just reading the Urtext for the second time since it became
public (I read it once back then) and it seems pretty interesting with
a little different slant on the material  with Jesus' personal dialog.
I'm actually pulling this off of the I work Miracles website for us.
Not sure if its to much info to start a discussion but I thought we
could just see how it goes. I'm open to whatever works for us all. So
I thought we could read this and make any comments on things that come
up etc. Maybe the NG is calm enough now that we can talk about issues
that we are working in regards to this reading..?
INTRODUCTION TO MIRACLES
It is crucial to say first that this is a required course. Only the
time you take it is voluntary. Free will does not mean that you
establish the curriculum. It means only that you can elect what to
take when. It is just because you are not ready to do what you should
elect to do that time exists at all. (You will see miracles through
your hands through me. You should begin each day with the prayer "Help
me to perform whatever miracles you want of me today.")
1.  The first thing to remember about miracles is that there is no
order of difficulty among them. One is not harder or bigger than
another. They are all the same.
2.   Miracles do not matter. They are quite unimportant.
3.  They occur naturally as an expression of love. The real miracle is
the love that inspires them. In this sense, everything that comes from
love is a miracle.
a. This explains the first point related to the lack of order. ALL
expressions of love are maximal.
     b. This is why the "thing in itself" does not matter. The only
thing that matters is the Source, and this is far beyond human
evaluation.
(Questions and Answers relating to the first three points.) QUESTION
(Helen): Would you regard this communication as a kind of miracle?
ANSWER: There is nothing special or surprising about this at all. The
ONE thing that happened was the Universal Miracle which was the
experience of intense love that you have felt. (Don't get embarrassed
by the idea of love. Embarrassment is only a form of fear, and
actually a particularly dangerous form because it reflects
egocentricity. Do not feel guilty about the fact that you are doubting
this. Just re-read them and their truth will come to you. I love you,
and I am not afraid or embarrassed or doubtful. MY strength will
support you, so don't worry, and leave the rest to me. But when you
see Bill, be SURE you tell him how much he helped you through by
giving you the right message, and don't bother with worrying about how
you received it. That doesn't matter either. You were just afraid.)
(Helen fearful in taxi about a communication which related to Dave's
healing and Jonathan's hernia. She thought it would be safer to
dissociate the two. Instructions were: refer to point 1 and re-read
NOW.)
4. All miracles mean Life, and God is the giver of Life. He will
direct you VERY specifically.
(Plan ahead is good advice in this world, where you should and must
control and direct where you have accepted responsibility. But the
Universal Plan is in more appropriate hands. You will know all you
need to know. Make NO attempts to plan ahead in this respect.)
5. Miracles are habits, and should be involuntary. They should not be
under conscious control. Consciously selected miracles are usually
misguided, and this will make the talent useless.
6. Miracles are natural. When they do NOT occur something has gone
wrong.
7. Miracles are everyone's right, but purification is necessary first.
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
9. Miracles are a kind of exchange. Like all expressions of love,
which are ALWAYS miraculous in the true sense, the exchange reverses
the physical laws.
10. A miracle is a reversal of the physical order because it brings
more love to the giver AND the receiver. (A miracle is misunderstood
when it is regarded as a spectacle.)
11. The use of miracles as a spectacle to INDUCE belief is wrong. They
are really used for and by believers. (Helen has some fear about 11
and doubt about 9 and 10. Probably doubt induced by fear of 11).
(When you say, "If you want me to I will" please add "and if you DON'T
want me to I won't." This is the RIGHT use of inhibition. There has to
be SOME control over learning for channelizing purposes. Remember
retroactive inhibition which should be easy enough for you. Sometimes
the new learning is the more important, and HAS to inhibit the old.
It's a form of correction.)
12. Prayer is the medium of miracles. Prayer is the natural
communication of the Created with the Creator. Through prayer, love is
received, and through miracles love is expressed.
12a. Miracles are thought-creations. Thought can create lower-order or
higher-order realities. This is the basic distinction between
intellectualization and thinking. One creates the physical, and the
other the spiritual, and we believe in what we create.
13. A miracle is a beginning and an ending. It thus abolishes time. It
is always an affirmation of re-birth, which seems to go back, but
really goes forward. It undoes the past in the present, and thus
releases the future.
14. Miracles attest to truth. They are convincing because they arise
from conviction. Without conviction, they deteriorate into magic,
which is mindless, and therefore destructive, or rather, the
uncreative use of Mind.
15. Each day should be devoted to miracles. (God created time so that
man could use it creatively, and convince himself of his own ability
to create. Time is a teaching device, and a means to an end. It will
cease when it is no longer useful for facilitating learning.)
(SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS: Notes on this course have to be taken only
under good learning conditions. The same goes for review periods. I
will tell you when, but REMEMBER TO ASK.)
16. Miracles are teaching devices for demonstrating that it is more
blessed to give than to receive. They simultaneously increase the
reserve strength of the giver, and supply the lack of strength in the
receiver. BE VERY CAREFUL in interpreting this.  INSTRUCTIONS: The
purpose of this course is integration. I told you that you will not be
able to use it right until you have taken it. As long as your
identification vacillates, (and Bill's is weak) you cannot accept the
gift that belongs to you. You are still vacillating between
recognizing the gift and throwing it away. Bill regards himself as too
weak to accept it. You do not yet know its healing power. After you
have passed the course, you will accept it and keep it and use it.
That is the final exam, which you will have no trouble in passing.
Midterm marks are not entered on the permanent record.
17. Miracles are the absence of the body. They are sudden shifts into
invisibility, away from lower order reality. That is why they heal.
18. A miracle is a service. It is the maximal service that one soul
can render another. It is a way of loving your neighbor as yourself.
The doer recognizes his own and his neighbor's inestimable value
simultaneously.  (This is why no areas of hatred can be retained. If
you retain them, your own value is no longer inestimable, because you
are evaluating it as X or infinity minus that amount. This is
meaningless mathematically, which uses the term "inestimable" only in
the very literal sense. Pun intended especially for Bill, (who
originally did not get it.) Intended as a special sign of love.)
19. Miracles rest on the law and order of eternity, not of time.
20. Miracles are an industrial necessity. Industry depends on
cooperation, and cooperation depends on miracles. (see /acim_page_ 4)
21. Miracles are cobwebs of iron. They unite human frailty to the
strength of God.     (Helen considered changing "iron" to "steel".
CORRECTION: No. Steel would NOT be a better word. Steel is very useful
but it would have to be tempered by fire. Iron is the raw material.
The point of miracles is that they replace fire, thus making it
unnecessary.) (continued below)
22. Miracles are natural expressions of total forgiveness. Through
miracles, man accepts God's forgiveness by extending it to others. The
second step is inherent in the first, because light cannot tolerate
darkness. Light dispels darkness automatically, by definition.
EXPLANATORY INSTRUCTIONS: Miracles are associated with fear only
because of the fallacy that darkness can hide. Man believes that what
he cannot see does not exist, and his physical eyes cannot see in the
dark. This is a very primitive solution, and has led to a denial of
the spiritual eye, which always depends on light. Remember the
Biblical injunction: "May I never forget that THINE eye is ever upon
me, beholding the evil and the good."
There are two stages, one lower and one higher, which are involved in
1) The recognition that darkness CANNOT hide. This usually does entail
fear.
2)  The recognition that there is nothing you WANT to hide, even if
you could. This brings escape from fear.
Corrections re point 21 (cobwebs of iron.) "This is upside down as
stated. The part about 'uniting human frailty with the strength of
God' is all right, but the explanation stops too soon. If iron is the
'raw material', cobwebs can't become the iron. That is only the way it
seems, because cobwebs are associated with the frailty and iron with
strength. If you look carefully at the phrasing, you will see it is
reversed (one point already tells you that miracles reverse the
physical or lower order laws.)
The raw material, iron, is heavy but crude, and stands for the body,
which is a crude creation. The cobweb concept is closer to how the
body SHOULD be regarded, e., as an airy and  temporary home, which can
just be blown away with a slight breeze.
...
read more »
Carrie
2010-08-15 17:51:32 UTC
Permalink
We can always try it and see.
Whatever it evolves into.
You asked before what version, and I didn't know, but kind of like the
Urtext. It's so basic, not like it was edited after (and still is by those
so inclined). We can read it fresh and come to our own conclusions (or, as
the course says, ask one's Inner Teacher).


"HappyD" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d6d8d0ed-91b2-4018-9897-***@k1g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
OK I'm going to post less material next time. I'll try and include the
right amount we can discuss and when we 're all ready we can move on.
How does that sound?
Post by HappyMike
I was just reading the Urtext for the second time since it became
public (I read it once back then) and it seems pretty interesting with
a little different slant on the material with Jesus' personal dialog.
I'm actually pulling this off of the I work Miracles website for us.
Not sure if its to much info to start a discussion but I thought we
could just see how it goes. I'm open to whatever works for us all. So
I thought we could read this and make any comments on things that come
up etc. Maybe the NG is calm enough now that we can talk about issues
that we are working in regards to this reading..?
INTRODUCTION TO MIRACLES
It is crucial to say first that this is a required course. Only the
time you take it is voluntary. Free will does not mean that you
establish the curriculum. It means only that you can elect what to
take when. It is just because you are not ready to do what you should
elect to do that time exists at all. (You will see miracles through
your hands through me. You should begin each day with the prayer "Help
me to perform whatever miracles you want of me today.")
1. The first thing to remember about miracles is that there is no
order of difficulty among them. One is not harder or bigger than
another. They are all the same.
2. Miracles do not matter. They are quite unimportant.
3. They occur naturally as an expression of love. The real miracle is
the love that inspires them. In this sense, everything that comes from
love is a miracle.
a. This explains the first point related to the lack of order. ALL
expressions of love are maximal.
b. This is why the "thing in itself" does not matter. The only
thing that matters is the Source, and this is far beyond human
evaluation.
(Questions and Answers relating to the first three points.) QUESTION
(Helen): Would you regard this communication as a kind of miracle?
ANSWER: There is nothing special or surprising about this at all. The
ONE thing that happened was the Universal Miracle which was the
experience of intense love that you have felt. (Don't get embarrassed
by the idea of love. Embarrassment is only a form of fear, and
actually a particularly dangerous form because it reflects
egocentricity. Do not feel guilty about the fact that you are doubting
this. Just re-read them and their truth will come to you. I love you,
and I am not afraid or embarrassed or doubtful. MY strength will
support you, so don't worry, and leave the rest to me. But when you
see Bill, be SURE you tell him how much he helped you through by
giving you the right message, and don't bother with worrying about how
you received it. That doesn't matter either. You were just afraid.)
(Helen fearful in taxi about a communication which related to Dave's
healing and Jonathan's hernia. She thought it would be safer to
dissociate the two. Instructions were: refer to point 1 and re-read
NOW.)
4. All miracles mean Life, and God is the giver of Life. He will
direct you VERY specifically.
(Plan ahead is good advice in this world, where you should and must
control and direct where you have accepted responsibility. But the
Universal Plan is in more appropriate hands. You will know all you
need to know. Make NO attempts to plan ahead in this respect.)
5. Miracles are habits, and should be involuntary. They should not be
under conscious control. Consciously selected miracles are usually
misguided, and this will make the talent useless.
6. Miracles are natural. When they do NOT occur something has gone
wrong.
7. Miracles are everyone's right, but purification is necessary first.
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
9. Miracles are a kind of exchange. Like all expressions of love,
which are ALWAYS miraculous in the true sense, the exchange reverses
the physical laws.
10. A miracle is a reversal of the physical order because it brings
more love to the giver AND the receiver. (A miracle is misunderstood
when it is regarded as a spectacle.)
11. The use of miracles as a spectacle to INDUCE belief is wrong. They
are really used for and by believers. (Helen has some fear about 11
and doubt about 9 and 10. Probably doubt induced by fear of 11).
(When you say, "If you want me to I will" please add "and if you DON'T
want me to I won't." This is the RIGHT use of inhibition. There has to
be SOME control over learning for channelizing purposes. Remember
retroactive inhibition which should be easy enough for you. Sometimes
the new learning is the more important, and HAS to inhibit the old.
It's a form of correction.)
12. Prayer is the medium of miracles. Prayer is the natural
communication of the Created with the Creator. Through prayer, love is
received, and through miracles love is expressed.
12a. Miracles are thought-creations. Thought can create lower-order or
higher-order realities. This is the basic distinction between
intellectualization and thinking. One creates the physical, and the
other the spiritual, and we believe in what we create.
13. A miracle is a beginning and an ending. It thus abolishes time. It
is always an affirmation of re-birth, which seems to go back, but
really goes forward. It undoes the past in the present, and thus
releases the future.
14. Miracles attest to truth. They are convincing because they arise
from conviction. Without conviction, they deteriorate into magic,
which is mindless, and therefore destructive, or rather, the
uncreative use of Mind.
15. Each day should be devoted to miracles. (God created time so that
man could use it creatively, and convince himself of his own ability
to create. Time is a teaching device, and a means to an end. It will
cease when it is no longer useful for facilitating learning.)
(SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS: Notes on this course have to be taken only
under good learning conditions. The same goes for review periods. I
will tell you when, but REMEMBER TO ASK.)
16. Miracles are teaching devices for demonstrating that it is more
blessed to give than to receive. They simultaneously increase the
reserve strength of the giver, and supply the lack of strength in the
receiver. BE VERY CAREFUL in interpreting this. INSTRUCTIONS: The
purpose of this course is integration. I told you that you will not be
able to use it right until you have taken it. As long as your
identification vacillates, (and Bill's is weak) you cannot accept the
gift that belongs to you. You are still vacillating between
recognizing the gift and throwing it away. Bill regards himself as too
weak to accept it. You do not yet know its healing power. After you
have passed the course, you will accept it and keep it and use it.
That is the final exam, which you will have no trouble in passing.
Midterm marks are not entered on the permanent record.
17. Miracles are the absence of the body. They are sudden shifts into
invisibility, away from lower order reality. That is why they heal.
18. A miracle is a service. It is the maximal service that one soul
can render another. It is a way of loving your neighbor as yourself.
The doer recognizes his own and his neighbor's inestimable value
simultaneously. (This is why no areas of hatred can be retained. If
you retain them, your own value is no longer inestimable, because you
are evaluating it as X or infinity minus that amount. This is
meaningless mathematically, which uses the term "inestimable" only in
the very literal sense. Pun intended especially for Bill, (who
originally did not get it.) Intended as a special sign of love.)
19. Miracles rest on the law and order of eternity, not of time.
20. Miracles are an industrial necessity. Industry depends on
cooperation, and cooperation depends on miracles. (see /acim_page_ 4)
21. Miracles are cobwebs of iron. They unite human frailty to the
strength of God. (Helen considered changing "iron" to "steel".
CORRECTION: No. Steel would NOT be a better word. Steel is very useful
but it would have to be tempered by fire. Iron is the raw material.
The point of miracles is that they replace fire, thus making it
unnecessary.) (continued below)
22. Miracles are natural expressions of total forgiveness. Through
miracles, man accepts God's forgiveness by extending it to others. The
second step is inherent in the first, because light cannot tolerate
darkness. Light dispels darkness automatically, by definition.
EXPLANATORY INSTRUCTIONS: Miracles are associated with fear only
because of the fallacy that darkness can hide. Man believes that what
he cannot see does not exist, and his physical eyes cannot see in the
dark. This is a very primitive solution, and has led to a denial of
the spiritual eye, which always depends on light. Remember the
Biblical injunction: "May I never forget that THINE eye is ever upon
me, beholding the evil and the good."
There are two stages, one lower and one higher, which are involved in
1) The recognition that darkness CANNOT hide. This usually does entail
fear.
2) The recognition that there is nothing you WANT to hide, even if
you could. This brings escape from fear.
Corrections re point 21 (cobwebs of iron.) "This is upside down as
stated. The part about 'uniting human frailty with the strength of
God' is all right, but the explanation stops too soon. If iron is the
'raw material', cobwebs can't become the iron. That is only the way it
seems, because cobwebs are associated with the frailty and iron with
strength. If you look carefully at the phrasing, you will see it is
reversed (one point already tells you that miracles reverse the
physical or lower order laws.)
The raw material, iron, is heavy but crude, and stands for the body,
which is a crude creation. The cobweb concept is closer to how the
body SHOULD be regarded, e., as an airy and temporary home, which can
just be blown away with a slight breeze.
...
read more »
Deborah
2010-08-15 18:16:09 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version. The
meaning is quite different.

Deborah (BC)
Carrie
2010-08-15 18:36:29 UTC
Permalink
"Deborah" <***@anywhere.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version. The
meaning is quite different.

Yes, you are right.
And just making slight changes can change the meaning. Though, maybe at
the time that was how it was supposed to be, in order to be understood and
accepted at that time.



Deborah (BC)
HappyD
2010-08-15 20:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version.  The
meaning is quite different.
   Yes, you are right.
    And just making slight changes can change the meaning. Though, maybe at
the time that was how it was supposed to be, in order to be understood and
accepted at that time.
Deborah (BC)
It does seem more true in my experience that we all help each other
interchangeably.
HappyD
2010-08-16 02:35:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version.  The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.
Deborah
2010-08-16 02:55:58 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 19:35:42 -0700 (PDT), HappyD
Post by HappyD
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version.  The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.
I see the suggestion of superiority in the first quote. Maybe I'm
inserting it myself.

Deborah (BC)
HappyD
2010-08-16 07:07:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 19:35:42 -0700 (PDT), HappyD
Post by HappyD
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version.  The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.
I see the suggestion of superiority in the first quote.  Maybe I'm
inserting it myself.
Deborah (BC)
Ya its amazing what meaning we can insert into things. I'm becoming
more aware of. I'm trying to give more latitude to posters since so
much can be misinterpreted especially in 2D formate like writing. It
really seems like a good exercise for me.
Carrie
2010-08-16 13:37:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 19:35:42 -0700 (PDT), HappyD
Post by HappyD
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version. The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.
I see the suggestion of superiority in the first quote. Maybe I'm
inserting it myself.
Deborah (BC)
Ya its amazing what meaning we can insert into things. I'm becoming
more aware of. I'm trying to give more latitude to posters since so
much can be misinterpreted especially in 2D formate like writing. It
really seems like a good exercise for me.

I've always thought, and sometimes said, this newsgroup (espeically) is
wonderful for practicing. Remembering. Just the idea that (in theory) one
can write something and not SEND it (think about it differently) and maybe
learn something about oneself from the communications here. We learn about
ourself in relationship with others. Sometimes I've been aware of something
I feel I've learned from this newsgroup, and discussion boards in general
(in a good way) spilling over into my offline life.
Carrie
2010-08-16 13:35:02 UTC
Permalink
"Deborah" <***@anywhere.com> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 19:35:42 -0700 (PDT), HappyD
Post by HappyD
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version. The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.
I see the suggestion of superiority in the first quote. Maybe I'm
inserting it myself.

Isn't this what the course says, as in "I give everything all and any
meaning it has for me?"
I know I do this myself, too. I give something a meaning and can change
my mind, see it in another way, and "change" whatever it is I think I'm
seeing.
Problem seems to be, do I want it differently? LOL


Deborah (BC)
Carrie
2010-08-16 13:33:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version. The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.

The word "temporarily" indicates it's not anything lasting?

Speaking of words, many years ago, I had some booklets by Circle of
Atonement. Robert Perry and Alan Watson. I didn't have much patience with
their writings, because to me, they took a clear and simple concept and
picked it apart, went all around in circles with it, and left the reader
confused about it. lik "huh...?" I know, some people seem to love this.

One booklet (quite long and complex) was written on the line "a healed
mind doesn't plan". In one place it spoke of the development of trust, and
said "this is something that will take a very long time" (I am writing this
from memory, just as an example) To me that didn't sound correct and I
looked it up in my course book and it says "may take a very long time".

Will take and may take are slightely different things. May take seems
to be more hopeful. Aside from that, the overall line about "time" is vague
and relative. What is time? And what is a long time? Starting from when?
10 years, a million years, and why even use the word "time" if it's part of
the illusion?

But, it MAY take a long time (in the context of the illusion) or could
take a long time, also implies it might not take a long time.
It's just a possibility.
Saying it WILL take a long time, is slightly different.

I once tried to read all the way through Gary Renard's book
"Dissapearance of the Universee" (people kept sending it to me, Gary himself
sent me the first one. Like if I really read it, I might see it in a
different/better way?) and kept coming to things, on every page, somethings
every paragrapah that (to me) were not course related.. I don't even try to
do this, it's like a filter in my mind that checks things out and "does this
relate in some way?"

I find many books and teachers that do fit and relate. I don't know
why there wouldn't be, the universe/illusion is constantly expanding and
growing and sharing (all one Mind) the course wouldn't come out and then
everything stop.
HappyD
2010-08-16 14:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by HappyD
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version. The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.
 The word "temporarily" indicates it's not anything lasting?
 Speaking of words, many years ago, I had some booklets by Circle of
Atonement. Robert Perry and Alan Watson.  I didn't have much patience with
their writings, because to me, they took a clear and simple concept and
picked it apart, went all around in circles with it, and left the reader
confused about it. lik "huh...?" I know, some people seem to love this.
    One booklet (quite long and complex) was written on the line "a healed
mind doesn't plan". In one place it spoke of the development of trust, and
said "this is something that will take a very long time" (I am writing this
from memory, just as an example) To me that didn't sound correct and I
looked it up in my course book and it says "may take a very long time".
     Will take and may take are slightely different things. May take seems
to be more hopeful. Aside from that, the overall line about "time" is vague
and relative. What is time?  And what is a long time? Starting from when?
10 years, a million years, and why even use the word "time" if it's part of
the illusion?
      But, it MAY take a long time (in the context of the illusion) or could
take a long time, also implies it might not take a long time.
      It's just a possibility.
      Saying it WILL take a long time, is slightly different.
       I once tried to read all the way through Gary Renard's book
"Dissapearance of the Universee" (people kept sending it to me, Gary himself
sent me the first one. Like if I really read it, I might see it in a
different/better way?) and kept coming to things, on every page, somethings
every paragrapah that (to me) were  not course related.. I don't even try to
do this, it's like a filter in my mind that checks things out and "does this
relate in some way?"
      I find many books and teachers that do fit and relate.  I don't know
why there wouldn't be, the universe/illusion is constantly expanding and
growing and sharing (all one Mind) the course wouldn't come out and then
everything stop.
HD:

I agree its a real good lesson to read these other books with somewhat
of a grain of salt. Like with you JBW really helped to open up my
understanding of the Course because it would just come out and say
things that I thought about the Course but weren't sure about or
needed spelled out for me. But I must remember that is is still - not
the Course - and so I have to make sure I don't conflate the two. The
one thing that JBW helped me with was when it explained how we are all
making up this illusion out of our joy. For some reason that
completely took the idea of victimhood right out of the equation.
Whether I was seeing any struggle or pain in my self or others It
helped my realize that we where just making it up out of our own
desire. Like, all playing the game of separation, for example I'll go
over hear and have cancer and you build up a fortune and then loose
everything etc.
Carrie
2010-08-16 16:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by HappyD
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version. The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.
The word "temporarily" indicates it's not anything lasting?
Speaking of words, many years ago, I had some booklets by Circle of
Atonement. Robert Perry and Alan Watson. I didn't have much patience with
their writings, because to me, they took a clear and simple concept and
picked it apart, went all around in circles with it, and left the reader
confused about it. lik "huh...?" I know, some people seem to love this.
One booklet (quite long and complex) was written on the line "a healed
mind doesn't plan". In one place it spoke of the development of trust, and
said "this is something that will take a very long time" (I am writing this
from memory, just as an example) To me that didn't sound correct and I
looked it up in my course book and it says "may take a very long time".
Will take and may take are slightely different things. May take seems
to be more hopeful. Aside from that, the overall line about "time" is vague
and relative. What is time? And what is a long time? Starting from when?
10 years, a million years, and why even use the word "time" if it's part of
the illusion?
But, it MAY take a long time (in the context of the illusion) or could
take a long time, also implies it might not take a long time.
It's just a possibility.
Saying it WILL take a long time, is slightly different.
I once tried to read all the way through Gary Renard's book
"Dissapearance of the Universee" (people kept sending it to me, Gary himself
sent me the first one. Like if I really read it, I might see it in a
different/better way?) and kept coming to things, on every page, somethings
every paragrapah that (to me) were not course related.. I don't even try
to
do this, it's like a filter in my mind that checks things out and "does this
relate in some way?"
I find many books and teachers that do fit and relate. I don't know
why there wouldn't be, the universe/illusion is constantly expanding and
growing and sharing (all one Mind) the course wouldn't come out and then
everything stop.
HD:

I agree its a real good lesson to read these other books with somewhat
of a grain of salt. Like with you JBW really helped to open up my
understanding of the Course because it would just come out and say
things that I thought about the Course but weren't sure about or
needed spelled out for me. But I must remember that is is still - not
the Course - and so I have to make sure I don't conflate the two. The
one thing that JBW helped me with was when it explained how we are all
making up this illusion out of our joy. For some reason that
completely took the idea of victimhood right out of the equation.
Whether I was seeing any struggle or pain in my self or others It
helped my realize that we where just making it up out of our own
desire. Like, all playing the game of separation, for example I'll go
over hear and have cancer and you build up a fortune and then loose
everything etc.


Yes, it seems easy to understand when you just think about it. But the
pull into the illusion is strong. We tend to forget.
I once read somewhere (not the course) about doing an exercise, where
you "see yourself" in your life. like from an overall view, sitting at the
computer typing, in the room, etc. It's kind of a strange feeling when you
can do it. Like seeing "yourself" in the setting, and thinking "I am
creating this for me, the me I think of in this body, situation, etc". And,
who and what is doing the "seeing"?
Like who are we talking to, the running throughs in our minds.
If it's true (and it makes more sense than anything else) we are
Spiritual Beings, having a physcial experience (in what seems real, form)
but some, or maybe most of "us" is in Spirit/Energy, seems like we could
then create for "me" something in a better way.
If our true Reality is Joy and we are connected with Source (know our
True Source) through the feelings of Joy, that seems pretty clear and
simple.
HappyD
2010-08-16 18:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by HappyD
Post by HappyD
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version. The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.
The word "temporarily" indicates it's not anything lasting?
Speaking of words, many years ago, I had some booklets by Circle of
Atonement. Robert Perry and Alan Watson. I didn't have much patience with
their writings, because to me, they took a clear and simple concept and
picked it apart, went all around in circles with it, and left the reader
confused about it. lik "huh...?" I know, some people seem to love this.
One booklet (quite long and complex) was written on the line "a healed
mind doesn't plan". In one place it spoke of the development of trust, and
said "this is something that will take a very long time" (I am writing this
from memory, just as an example) To me that didn't sound correct and I
looked it up in my course book and it says "may take a very long time".
Will take and may take are slightely different things. May take seems
to be more hopeful. Aside from that, the overall line about "time" is vague
and relative. What is time? And what is a long time? Starting from when?
10 years, a million years, and why even use the word "time" if it's part of
the illusion?
But, it MAY take a long time (in the context of the illusion) or could
take a long time, also implies it might not take a long time.
It's just a possibility.
Saying it WILL take a long time, is slightly different.
I once tried to read all the way through Gary Renard's book
"Dissapearance of the Universee" (people kept sending it to me, Gary himself
sent me the first one. Like if I really read it, I might see it in a
different/better way?) and kept coming to things, on every page, somethings
every paragrapah that (to me) were not course related.. I don't even try
to
do this, it's like a filter in my mind that checks things out and "does this
relate in some way?"
I find many books and teachers that do fit and relate. I don't know
why there wouldn't be, the universe/illusion is constantly expanding and
growing and sharing (all one Mind) the course wouldn't come out and then
everything stop.
I agree its a real good lesson to read these other books with somewhat
of a grain of salt. Like with you JBW really helped to open up my
understanding of the Course because it would just come out and say
things that I thought about the Course but weren't sure about or
needed spelled out for me. But I must remember that is is still - not
the Course - and so I have to make sure I don't conflate the two. The
one thing that JBW helped me with was when it explained how we are all
making up this illusion out of our joy. For some reason that
completely took the idea of victimhood  right out of the equation.
Whether I was seeing any struggle or pain in my self or others It
helped my realize that we where just making it up out of our own
desire. Like, all  playing the game of separation, for example I'll go
over hear and have cancer and you build up a fortune and then loose
everything etc.
   Yes, it seems easy to understand when you just think about it. But the
pull into the illusion is strong. We tend to forget.
    I once read somewhere (not the course) about doing an exercise, where
you "see yourself" in your life. like from an overall view, sitting at the
computer typing, in the room, etc. It's kind of a strange feeling when you
can do it. Like seeing "yourself" in the setting, and thinking "I am
creating this for me, the me I think of in this body, situation, etc". And,
who and what is doing the "seeing"?
   Like who are we talking to, the running throughs in our minds.
    If it's true (and it makes more sense than anything else) we are
Spiritual Beings, having a physcial experience (in what seems real, form)
but some, or maybe most of "us" is in Spirit/Energy, seems like we could
then create for "me" something in a better way.
    If our true Reality is Joy and we are connected with Source (know our
True Source) through the feelings of Joy, that seems pretty clear and
simple.
HD:
I'm rereading a book titled Busting Loose of the Money Game. The book
is pure Course and very useful B Loose meeting are being held in a
couple places here where I live. You might want to check it out if
your inclined, its very high level Course type material.
Carrie
2010-08-16 21:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by HappyD
Post by HappyD
Post by Deborah
On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 06:33:04 -0700 (PDT), HappyMike
Post by HappyMike
8. Miracles are a form of healing. They supply a lack, and are
performed by those who have more for those who have less.
I wonder how this got changed to "those who temporarily have more for
those who temporarily have less" per the official version. The
meaning is quite different.
Deborah (BC)
What kind of change do you see? I see very little.
The word "temporarily" indicates it's not anything lasting?
Speaking of words, many years ago, I had some booklets by Circle of
Atonement. Robert Perry and Alan Watson. I didn't have much patience with
their writings, because to me, they took a clear and simple concept and
picked it apart, went all around in circles with it, and left the reader
confused about it. lik "huh...?" I know, some people seem to love this.
One booklet (quite long and complex) was written on the line "a healed
mind doesn't plan". In one place it spoke of the development of trust, and
said "this is something that will take a very long time" (I am writing this
from memory, just as an example) To me that didn't sound correct and I
looked it up in my course book and it says "may take a very long time".
Will take and may take are slightely different things. May take seems
to be more hopeful. Aside from that, the overall line about "time" is vague
and relative. What is time? And what is a long time? Starting from when?
10 years, a million years, and why even use the word "time" if it's part of
the illusion?
But, it MAY take a long time (in the context of the illusion) or could
take a long time, also implies it might not take a long time.
It's just a possibility.
Saying it WILL take a long time, is slightly different.
I once tried to read all the way through Gary Renard's book
"Dissapearance of the Universee" (people kept sending it to me, Gary himself
sent me the first one. Like if I really read it, I might see it in a
different/better way?) and kept coming to things, on every page, somethings
every paragrapah that (to me) were not course related.. I don't even try
to
do this, it's like a filter in my mind that checks things out and "does this
relate in some way?"
I find many books and teachers that do fit and relate. I don't know
why there wouldn't be, the universe/illusion is constantly expanding and
growing and sharing (all one Mind) the course wouldn't come out and then
everything stop.
I agree its a real good lesson to read these other books with somewhat
of a grain of salt. Like with you JBW really helped to open up my
understanding of the Course because it would just come out and say
things that I thought about the Course but weren't sure about or
needed spelled out for me. But I must remember that is is still - not
the Course - and so I have to make sure I don't conflate the two. The
one thing that JBW helped me with was when it explained how we are all
making up this illusion out of our joy. For some reason that
completely took the idea of victimhood right out of the equation.
Whether I was seeing any struggle or pain in my self or others It
helped my realize that we where just making it up out of our own
desire. Like, all playing the game of separation, for example I'll go
over hear and have cancer and you build up a fortune and then loose
everything etc.
Yes, it seems easy to understand when you just think about it. But the
pull into the illusion is strong. We tend to forget.
I once read somewhere (not the course) about doing an exercise, where
you "see yourself" in your life. like from an overall view, sitting at the
computer typing, in the room, etc. It's kind of a strange feeling when you
can do it. Like seeing "yourself" in the setting, and thinking "I am
creating this for me, the me I think of in this body, situation, etc". And,
who and what is doing the "seeing"?
Like who are we talking to, the running throughs in our minds.
If it's true (and it makes more sense than anything else) we are
Spiritual Beings, having a physcial experience (in what seems real, form)
but some, or maybe most of "us" is in Spirit/Energy, seems like we could
then create for "me" something in a better way.
If our true Reality is Joy and we are connected with Source (know our
True Source) through the feelings of Joy, that seems pretty clear and
simple.
HD:
I'm rereading a book titled Busting Loose of the Money Game. The book
is pure Course and very useful B Loose meeting are being held in a
couple places here where I live. You might want to check it out if
your inclined, its very high level Course type material.

Thanks. The title sounds familiar.
It sounds sort of like what others say, Arnold Patent for one. He says
"money doesn't lead, it follows". if you feel you don't have enough money
and blocks in that area, something else is going on.
Sometimes, though, it seems like my whole life has been books, and tapes
and teachers and "maybe this is THE ONE" and this time I'll really get it
and live it.
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