I just wrote this post somewhere else and liked it.

[george]

John-he will understand the difference between changing cause and re-
interpreting effects.

Reinterpreting effects CHANGES the cause because the mind IS the cause
and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why it is essential
to change the cause BY reinterpreting the effects or ANY thought out
of accord with love and ask the Holy Spirit for a different way to see
whatever or whomever. A way that IS in accord with love. That choice
to see through loves eyes is always available no matter the form or
how seemingly evil something appears as. That choice is always
available because of the cause, God which is love.

If I screw up and see what isn't actually there, hate, evil, conflict
I want to accept the Atonement. All the Atonement is, is the
reinterpretation of the evil effect I've mistakenly chosen to see. In
this way because the mind chooses to see love instead of hate in the
same event, the CAUSE has been changed. The cause being my mind.

If I'm unwilling to accept the Atonement and it's loving perceptions
of everyone and everything and cling to my insanity of how horrible
the world is, I can never be saved from its effects BECAUSE I'm
unwilling to change the CAUSE. The cause being me and the effects
being how I choose to see the world.

This is why I'm doing it to myself by my choices in how to interpret
the effects I see.

[george]

 John-he will understand the difference between changing cause and re-
interpreting effects.
Reinterpreting effects CHANGES the cause because the mind IS the cause
and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why it is essential
to change the cause BY reinterpreting the effects or ANY thought out
of accord with love and ask the Holy Spirit for a different way to see
whatever or whomever. A way that IS in accord with love. That choice
to see through loves eyes is always available no matter the form or
how seemingly evil something appears as. That choice is always
available because of the cause, God which is love.
If I screw up and see what isn't actually there, hate, evil, conflict
I want to accept the Atonement. All the Atonement is, is the
reinterpretation of the evil effect I've mistakenly chosen to see. In
this way because the mind chooses to see love instead of hate in the
same event, the CAUSE has been changed. The cause being my mind.
If I'm unwilling to accept the Atonement and it's loving perceptions
of everyone and everything and cling to my insanity of how horrible
the world is, I can never be saved from its effects BECAUSE I'm
unwilling to change the CAUSE. The cause being me and the effects
being how I choose to see the world.
This is why I'm doing it to myself by my choices in how to interpret
the effects I see.

More of the discussion

John- Interpretation/re-interpretation within the condition of
perception can only be at the effect level.

The reinterpretation is done in the MIND by the changing of it from
hate to love. This is the acceptance of the Atonement and because of
this acceptance the effect is now whatever was seen as hateful before
is now seen as loving. The cause is the mind, the effect is whatever
has been seen as hateful is now loving and yet it is the same event.

John-Change the cause and the effect must change. This is the miracle.

The change of the mind to WANTING to accept love instead of fear is
the cause. The mind or me is the ALWAYS the cause of what I see. I
choose to accept the Atonement, so I WANT love instead of fear or
hate. Because of this change of mind, acceptance of the Atonement, a
miracle DOES happen, what once was seen as a reason to hate and
condemn is now seen as a reason to love and accept. It's the exact
same event but looked at through loving eyes instead of fearful ones.
What once was mistakenly seen as reason to hate has now been correctly
reinterpreted as a reason to love.
The reinterpretation or change of perception is of paramount
importance because without it, the cause has not been changed so the
effect CAN'T change.

John-1) The correction was not done by you and consistent with your
flawed understanding of how the correction must be done and how it
must look.

This is absolutely true because all love comes from God, all the
acceptance of the Atonement is, is aligning my thoughts with Gods
loving ones. In reality all things ARE loving. All things DO work
together for good and the acceptance of the Atonement is just this
understanding. It all flows from God to me.

John-2) Correction at the causal level is incremental. It is slow but
sure healing of the mind. Miracle by miracle. Correction at the level
of effect is often articulated as all or nothing, all correction now.

This has been true in my life as well. In the beginning, 30 years ago
when I first read ACIM and started to apply it, it was hard to see
that the guy that cut me off just didn't see me instead of that he is
a jerk as I had always thought before. As time has gone by and I kept
APPLYING ACIM in my daily life by accepting the Atonement and having
my perceptions reinterpreted it has become more obvious to me that
this works all the time in every instance of my life. Now when someone
comes into my house like 2 years ago and walks out with $20,000 I
understand it can ONLY be an opportunity to give. It's not a reason
for upset but a reason to rejoice that God gave me this gift or
opportunity to help someone in need. To the EGO this IS insanity, but
to my Spirit it REJOICES at the peaceful loving perception it has sent
me and welcomes it and love with both arms. I sure like the feeling of
love better then the hateful condemnation I had at first when I
arrived home. This alone, tells me I'm heading in the right direction
and made the right choice of how I want to perceive the event.

John-2) Re-interpretation at the level of effect is like painting lip
stick on pig and calling it lovely. The question is not whether the
pig is lovely or ugly but why is the mind manifesting a pig at all?

It makes no difference if I paint the pig with lipstick and call it
lovely. The choice is and has always been, do I WANT it to be lovely.
IOW what I want, I manifest by my mind. If I WANT hate I will see it
BECAUSE I want it. If I WANT love I will see it BECAUSE I want it. I'm
the cause, the love or the hate I CHOOSE is the cause of the effects I
see. The EFFECT is ONLY how I have ALREADY chosen to see the event. If
I've chosen insanely to actually want hate and fear then God gives me
the CHOICE to accept the Atonement and see whatever is was
differently, in the truthful loving way.

If I'm not WILLING to accept the reinterpretation to a loving
perception then I'm not willing to change my mind and I'm choosing to
act insanely.

Only an insane person chooses hate, when love is available. Been
there, done that, now I know better as my sanity is returning. The
Spiritual road is a journey not a destination and to me is a fun ride.

[george]

Post by george

 John-he will understand the difference between changing cause and re-
interpreting effects.
Reinterpreting effects CHANGES the cause because the mind IS the cause
and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why it is essential
to change the cause BY reinterpreting the effects or ANY thought out
of accord with love and ask the Holy Spirit for a different way to see
whatever or whomever. A way that IS in accord with love. That choice
to see through loves eyes is always available no matter the form or
how seemingly evil something appears as. That choice is always
available because of the cause, God which is love.
If I screw up and see what isn't actually there, hate, evil, conflict
I want to accept the Atonement. All the Atonement is, is the
reinterpretation of the evil effect I've mistakenly chosen to see. In
this way because the mind chooses to see love instead of hate in the
same event, the CAUSE has been changed. The cause being my mind.
If I'm unwilling to accept the Atonement and it's loving perceptions
of everyone and everything and cling to my insanity of how horrible
the world is, I can never be saved from its effects BECAUSE I'm
unwilling to change the CAUSE. The cause being me and the effects
being how I choose to see the world.
This is why I'm doing it to myself by my choices in how to interpret
the effects I see.

More of the discussion
John- Interpretation/re-interpretation within the condition of
perception can only be at the effect level.
The reinterpretation is done in the MIND by the changing of it from
hate to love. This is the acceptance of the Atonement and because of
this acceptance the effect is now whatever was seen as hateful before
is now seen as loving. The cause is the mind, the effect is whatever
has been seen as hateful is now loving and yet it is the same event.
John-Change the cause and the effect must change. This is the miracle.
The change of the mind to WANTING to accept love instead of fear is
the cause. The mind or me is the ALWAYS the cause of what I see. I
choose to accept the Atonement, so I WANT love instead of fear or
hate. Because of this change of mind, acceptance of the Atonement, a
miracle DOES happen, what once was seen as a reason to hate and
condemn is now seen as a reason to love and accept. It's the exact
same event but looked at through loving eyes instead of fearful ones.
What once was mistakenly seen as reason to hate has now been correctly
reinterpreted as a reason to love.
The reinterpretation or change of perception is of paramount
importance because without it, the cause has not been changed so the
effect CAN'T change.
John-1) The correction was not done by you and consistent with your
flawed understanding of how the correction must be done and how it
must look.
This is absolutely true because all love comes from God, all the
acceptance of the Atonement is, is aligning my thoughts with Gods
loving ones. In reality all things ARE loving. All things DO work
together for good and the acceptance of the Atonement is just this
understanding. It all flows from God to me.
John-2) Correction at the causal level is incremental. It is slow but
sure healing of the mind. Miracle by miracle. Correction at the level
of effect is often articulated as all or nothing, all correction now.
This has been true in my life as well. In the beginning, 30 years ago
when I first read ACIM and started to apply it, it was hard to see
that the guy that cut me off just didn't see me instead of that he is
a jerk as I had always thought before. As time has gone by and I kept
APPLYING ACIM in my daily life by accepting the Atonement and having
my perceptions reinterpreted it has become more obvious to me that
this works all the time in every instance of my life. Now when someone
comes into my house like 2 years ago and walks out with $20,000 I
understand it can ONLY be an opportunity to give. It's not a reason
for upset but a reason to rejoice that God gave me this gift or
opportunity to help someone in need. To the EGO this IS insanity, but
to my Spirit it REJOICES at the peaceful loving perception it has sent
me and welcomes it and love with both arms. I sure like the feeling of
love better then the hateful condemnation I had at first when I
arrived home. This alone, tells me I'm heading in the right direction
and made the right choice of how I want to perceive the event.
John-2) Re-interpretation at the level of effect is like painting lip
stick on pig and calling it lovely. The question is not whether the
pig is lovely or ugly but why is the mind manifesting a pig at all?
It makes no difference if I paint the pig with lipstick and call it
lovely. The choice is and has always been, do I WANT it to be lovely.
IOW what I want, I manifest by my mind. If I WANT hate I will see it
BECAUSE I want it. If I WANT love I will see it BECAUSE I want it. I'm
the cause, the love or the hate I CHOOSE is the cause of the effects I
see. The EFFECT is ONLY how I have ALREADY chosen to see the event. If
I've chosen insanely to actually want hate and fear then God gives me
the CHOICE to accept the Atonement and see whatever is was
differently, in the truthful loving way.
If I'm not WILLING to accept the reinterpretation to a loving
perception then I'm not willing to change my mind and I'm choosing to
act insanely.
Only an insane person chooses hate, when love is available. Been
there, done that, now I know better as my sanity is returning. The
Spiritual road is a journey not a destination and to me is a fun ride.

More-

George-Reinterpreting effects CHANGES the cause because the mind IS
the cause and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why it is
essential to change the cause BY reinterpreting the effects or ANY
thought out of accord with love and ask the Holy Spirit for a
different way to see whatever or whomever. A way that IS in accord
with love.

John-You got it ass backwards, George.

Your right I should have said it like this.

Reinterpreting effects is a RESULT of changing the cause because the
mind IS the cause and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why
it is essential to change the cause and see the results by the
acceptance of a reinterpreted effects.

[Mike]

Post by george

Post by george

 John-he will understand the difference between changing cause and re-
interpreting effects.
Reinterpreting effects CHANGES the cause because the mind IS the cause
and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why it is essential
to change the cause BY reinterpreting the effects or ANY thought out
of accord with love and ask the Holy Spirit for a different way to see
whatever or whomever. A way that IS in accord with love. That choice
to see through loves eyes is always available no matter the form or
how seemingly evil something appears as. That choice is always
available because of the cause, God which is love.
If I screw up and see what isn't actually there, hate, evil, conflict
I want to accept the Atonement. All the Atonement is, is the
reinterpretation of the evil effect I've mistakenly chosen to see. In
this way because the mind chooses to see love instead of hate in the
same event, the CAUSE has been changed. The cause being my mind.
If I'm unwilling to accept the Atonement and it's loving perceptions
of everyone and everything and cling to my insanity of how horrible
the world is, I can never be saved from its effects BECAUSE I'm
unwilling to change the CAUSE. The cause being me and the effects
being how I choose to see the world.
This is why I'm doing it to myself by my choices in how to interpret
the effects I see.

More of the discussion
John- Interpretation/re-interpretation within the condition of
perception can only be at the effect level.
The reinterpretation is done in the MIND by the changing of it from
hate to love. This is the acceptance of the Atonement and because of
this acceptance the effect is now whatever was seen as hateful before
is now seen as loving. The cause is the mind, the effect is whatever
has been seen as hateful is now loving and yet it is the same event.
John-Change the cause and the effect must change. This is the miracle.
The change of the mind to WANTING to accept love instead of fear is
the cause. The mind or me is the ALWAYS the cause of what I see. I
choose to accept the Atonement, so I WANT love instead of fear or
hate. Because of this change of mind, acceptance of the Atonement, a
miracle DOES happen, what once was seen as a reason to hate and
condemn is now seen as a reason to love and accept. It's the exact
same event but looked at through loving eyes instead of fearful ones.
What once was mistakenly seen as reason to hate has now been correctly
reinterpreted as a reason to love.
The reinterpretation or change of perception is of paramount
importance because without it, the cause has not been changed so the
effect CAN'T change.
John-1) The correction was not done by you and consistent with your
flawed understanding of how the correction must be done and how it
must look.
This is absolutely true because all love comes from God, all the
acceptance of the Atonement is, is aligning my thoughts with Gods
loving ones. In reality all things ARE loving. All things DO work
together for good and the acceptance of the Atonement is just this
understanding. It all flows from God to me.
John-2) Correction at the causal level is incremental. It is slow but
sure healing of the mind. Miracle by miracle. Correction at the level
of effect is often articulated as all or nothing, all correction now.
This has been true in my life as well. In the beginning, 30 years ago
when I first read ACIM and started to apply it, it was hard to see
that the guy that cut me off just didn't see me instead of that he is
a jerk as I had always thought before. As time has gone by and I kept
APPLYING ACIM in my daily life by accepting the Atonement and having
my perceptions reinterpreted it has become more obvious to me that
this works all the time in every instance of my life. Now when someone
comes into my house like 2 years ago and walks out with $20,000 I
understand it can ONLY be an opportunity to give. It's not a reason
for upset but a reason to rejoice that God gave me this gift or
opportunity to help someone in need. To the EGO this IS insanity, but
to my Spirit it REJOICES at the peaceful loving perception it has sent
me and welcomes it and love with both arms. I sure like the feeling of
love better then the hateful condemnation I had at first when I
arrived home. This alone, tells me I'm heading in the right direction
and made the right choice of how I want to perceive the event.
John-2) Re-interpretation at the level of effect is like painting lip
stick on pig and calling it lovely. The question is not whether the
pig is lovely or ugly but why is the mind manifesting a pig at all?
It makes no difference if I paint the pig with lipstick and call it
lovely. The choice is and has always been, do I WANT it to be lovely.
IOW what I want, I manifest by my mind. If I WANT hate I will see it
BECAUSE I want it. If I WANT love I will see it BECAUSE I want it. I'm
the cause, the love or the hate I CHOOSE is the cause of the effects I
see. The EFFECT is ONLY how I have ALREADY chosen to see the event. If
I've chosen insanely to actually want hate and fear then God gives me
the CHOICE to accept the Atonement and see whatever is was
differently, in the truthful loving way.
If I'm not WILLING to accept the reinterpretation to a loving
perception then I'm not willing to change my mind and I'm choosing to
act insanely.
Only an insane person chooses hate, when love is available. Been
there, done that, now I know better as my sanity is returning. The
Spiritual road is a journey not a destination and to me is a fun ride.

More-
George-Reinterpreting effects CHANGES the cause because the mind IS
the cause and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why it is
essential to change the cause BY reinterpreting the effects or ANY
thought out of accord with love and ask the Holy Spirit for a
different way to see whatever or whomever. A way that IS in accord
with love.
John-You got it ass backwards, George.
Your right I should have said it like this.
Reinterpreting effects is a RESULT of changing the cause because the
mind IS the cause and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why
it is essential to change the cause and see the results by the
acceptance of a reinterpreted effects.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I won't say your reasoning is convoluted, but it seems to me
you are making something simple all too complicated. You do
understand that Atonement, salvation and forgiveness are the
same, right? Then consider the Course's words: "To forgive is
merely to remember only the loving thoughts you gave in the
past, and those that were given. All the rest must be forgotten."

And that is the whole deal; that is the practical application of
the Course.

[eluq]

Hi George, good conversation albeit with yourself. Your below
explanation/definition is right on imo.

The changing of cause is the puzzler from this perspective. It seems to me
we as bodies are the effect so from this perspective it is very challenging
for a thought to change the mind thinking it! But there is an absolute key
point that gets overlooked because it seems so simple (and I think it
basically what you are saying) the effect cannot think but it does have one
capablility - it can say yes or no, i.e., true or not true. It doesn't seem
like much but it is the story of salvation to accept and approach knowing
that what you perceive is not true (which is how i intrepret forgiveness).
Perception is used to distort reality, it is not true -- we as body selves
can choose to accept this and upon choosing this allows the HS or the
thoughts of truth to be ABLE to enter the mind and dispel them like darkness
dispelled. By disbelieving or saying no to the thoughts we perceive we mol
give permission to HS or higher mind or God thoughts to express but it
hinges on the permission or the allowing which is the releasing of the
validity of the false thoughts perception provides.




Your right I should have said it like this.

Reinterpreting effects is a RESULT of changing the cause because the
mind IS the cause and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why
it is essential to change the cause and see the results by the
acceptance of a reinterpreted effects.

[mr bill]

Post by george

Post by george

 John-he will understand the difference between changing cause and re-
interpreting effects.
Reinterpreting effects CHANGES the cause because the mind IS the cause
and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why it is essential
to change the cause BY reinterpreting the effects or ANY thought out
of accord with love and ask the Holy Spirit for a different way to see
whatever or whomever. A way that IS in accord with love. That choice
to see through loves eyes is always available no matter the form or
how seemingly evil something appears as. That choice is always
available because of the cause, God which is love.
If I screw up and see what isn't actually there, hate, evil, conflict
I want to accept the Atonement. All the Atonement is, is the
reinterpretation of the evil effect I've mistakenly chosen to see. In
this way because the mind chooses to see love instead of hate in the
same event, the CAUSE has been changed. The cause being my mind.
If I'm unwilling to accept the Atonement and it's loving perceptions
of everyone and everything and cling to my insanity of how horrible
the world is, I can never be saved from its effects BECAUSE I'm
unwilling to change the CAUSE. The cause being me and the effects
being how I choose to see the world.
This is why I'm doing it to myself by my choices in how to interpret
the effects I see.

More of the discussion
John- Interpretation/re-interpretation within the condition of
perception can only be at the effect level.
The reinterpretation is done in the MIND by the changing of it from
hate to love. This is the acceptance of the Atonement and because of
this acceptance the effect is now whatever was seen as hateful before
is now seen as loving. The cause is the mind, the effect is whatever
has been seen as hateful is now loving and yet it is the same event.
John-Change the cause and the effect must change. This is the miracle.
The change of the mind to WANTING to accept love instead of fear is
the cause. The mind or me is the ALWAYS the cause of what I see. I
choose to accept the Atonement, so I WANT love instead of fear or
hate. Because of this change of mind, acceptance of the Atonement, a
miracle DOES happen, what once was seen as a reason to hate and
condemn is now seen as a reason to love and accept. It's the exact
same event but looked at through loving eyes instead of fearful ones.
What once was mistakenly seen as reason to hate has now been correctly
reinterpreted as a reason to love.
The reinterpretation or change of perception is of paramount
importance because without it, the cause has not been changed so the
effect CAN'T change.
John-1) The correction was not done by you and consistent with your
flawed understanding of how the correction must be done and how it
must look.
This is absolutely true because all love comes from God, all the
acceptance of the Atonement is, is aligning my thoughts with Gods
loving ones. In reality all things ARE loving. All things DO work
together for good and the acceptance of the Atonement is just this
understanding. It all flows from God to me.
John-2) Correction at the causal level is incremental. It is slow but
sure healing of the mind. Miracle by miracle. Correction at the level
of effect is often articulated as all or nothing, all correction now.
This has been true in my life as well. In the beginning, 30 years ago
when I first read ACIM and started to apply it, it was hard to see
that the guy that cut me off just didn't see me instead of that he is
a jerk as I had always thought before. As time has gone by and I kept
APPLYING ACIM in my daily life by accepting the Atonement and having
my perceptions reinterpreted it has become more obvious to me that
this works all the time in every instance of my life. Now when someone
comes into my house like 2 years ago and walks out with $20,000 I
understand it can ONLY be an opportunity to give. It's not a reason
for upset but a reason to rejoice that God gave me this gift or
opportunity to help someone in need. To the EGO this IS insanity, but
to my Spirit it REJOICES at the peaceful loving perception it has sent
me and welcomes it and love with both arms. I sure like the feeling of
love better then the hateful condemnation I had at first when I
arrived home. This alone, tells me I'm heading in the right direction
and made the right choice of how I want to perceive the event.
John-2) Re-interpretation at the level of effect is like painting lip
stick on pig and calling it lovely. The question is not whether the
pig is lovely or ugly but why is the mind manifesting a pig at all?
It makes no difference if I paint the pig with lipstick and call it
lovely. The choice is and has always been, do I WANT it to be lovely.
IOW what I want, I manifest by my mind. If I WANT hate I will see it
BECAUSE I want it. If I WANT love I will see it BECAUSE I want it. I'm
the cause, the love or the hate I CHOOSE is the cause of the effects I
see. The EFFECT is ONLY how I have ALREADY chosen to see the event. If
I've chosen insanely to actually want hate and fear then God gives me
the CHOICE to accept the Atonement and see whatever is was
differently, in the truthful loving way.
If I'm not WILLING to accept the reinterpretation to a loving
perception then I'm not willing to change my mind and I'm choosing to
act insanely.
Only an insane person chooses hate, when love is available. Been
there, done that, now I know better as my sanity is returning. The
Spiritual road is a journey not a destination and to me is a fun ride.

More-
George-Reinterpreting effects CHANGES the cause because the mind IS
the cause and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why it is
essential to change the cause BY reinterpreting the effects or ANY
thought out of accord with love and ask the Holy Spirit for a
different way to see whatever or whomever. A way that IS in accord
with love.
John-You got it ass backwards, George.
Your right I should have said it like this.
Reinterpreting effects is a RESULT of changing the cause because the
mind IS the cause and the way it interprets IS the effects. That's why
it is essential to change the cause and see the results by the
acceptance of a reinterpreted effects.

you spend a lot of time staring fondly in the mirror
dontcha george?
:)