Discussion:
Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one
(too old to reply)
Sharon
2010-05-06 02:55:55 UTC
Permalink
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
Course:

"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1


K.. I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper. If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.

To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all. So for all
intents and purposes, there is one mind. If you had a whole bunch of
computers with running the same program, you could say there was many
with the same program, but this does not make any of them unique or
outside of another, or in any way anything more then just one single
program.

There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind. What happens to one,
happens to all. If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me. I am literally you. One
Self.

Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time. In other words, while in dream world.

Let me explain further; there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake then
say a person with a miserable life or many illness.

Ok, let's know look at this statement again just to make clear:

"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"

With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another? A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND. The one mind that
dreamed it was many.

Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are. To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call the
Holy Spirit).

But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".

Another fallacy seems to be this. Say a "happy" person looks out into
the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think that
personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in it. And
just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever they "want"
to see. However, its not because that individual is making up the
world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are seeing an effect
of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled with unhappiness
(and some happy people and etc) THAT is making up the world you see
not the individual. It all equally as meaningless. Happy, unhappy,
sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all and all is equally a
dream. The Course says it's "YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.

So, in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all, can
waken.

Stepping off podium now. Haha. Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally. :D
Carrie
2010-05-06 16:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K.. I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper. If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all. So for all
intents and purposes, there is one mind. If you had a whole bunch of
computers with running the same program, you could say there was many
with the same program, but this does not make any of them unique or
outside of another, or in any way anything more then just one single
program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind. What happens to one,
happens to all. If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me. I am literally you. One
Self.
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time. In other words, while in dream world.
Let me explain further; there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake then
say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another? A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND. The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are. To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call the
Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this. Say a "happy" person looks out into
the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think that
personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in it. And
just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever they "want"
to see. However, its not because that individual is making up the
world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are seeing an effect
of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled with unhappiness
(and some happy people and etc) THAT is making up the world you see
not the individual. It all equally as meaningless. Happy, unhappy,
sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all and all is equally a
dream. The Course says it's "YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
So, in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all, can
waken.
Stepping off podium now. Haha. Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally. :D
I like to throw stuff around, too, see if a discussion starts. Sometimes
one does but NOT what I had in mind. Most of the time it gets ignored.

I think your quote, in a simple way (not sure we can comprehend it
totally, like the mind can't really know itself?) refers to "mass
consciousness". Like we create our own reality, but at the same time it all
blends and creates everything else (what seems to be) overall. I picture it
like a fluid and moving tapestry of zillions of colors and shapes all
blending together and shifting into one.
Sharon
2010-05-09 20:29:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K.. I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper.  If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all.  So for all
intents and purposes, there is one mind.   If you had a whole bunch of
computers with running the same program, you could say there was many
with the same program, but this does not make any of them unique or
outside of another, or in any way anything more then just one single
program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind.  What happens to one,
happens to all.  If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me.   I am literally you.  One
Self.
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time.  In other words,  while in dream world.
Let me explain further;  there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake then
say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another?  A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND.  The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are.   To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call the
Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this.  Say a "happy" person looks out into
the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think that
personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in it.  And
just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever they "want"
to see.   However, its not because that individual is making up the
world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are seeing an effect
of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled with unhappiness
(and some happy people and etc)  THAT is making up the world you see
not the individual.  It all equally as meaningless. Happy, unhappy,
sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all and all is equally a
dream.   The Course says it's "YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
So,  in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all,  can
waken.
Stepping off podium now.  Haha.  Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally.  :D
   I like to throw stuff around, too, see if a discussion starts. Sometimes
one does but NOT what I had in mind. Most of the time it gets ignored.
     I think your quote, in a simple way (not sure we can comprehend it
totally, like the mind can't really know itself?) refers to "mass
consciousness". Like we create our own reality, but at the same time it all
blends and creates everything else (what seems to be) overall. I picture it
like a fluid and moving tapestry of zillions of colors and shapes all
blending  together and shifting into one.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks for your imput Carrie, and yes, I like to think of it as a
moving, living tapestry blending as One too. However, I'm not sure
about making your OWN reality, as you say, as far as the dream. It
seems this is one dream, and it just appears to be shared by many. We
are told this is an illusion, that we are really just one mind (or
every mind is one..as if in some sort of holographic way maybe).
Now, I do think we can make a choice as to which voice we listen to
within our holographic minds (for a lack of a better way of putting
it). But, we don't make or own individual dream world as people. We
only choose happiness or misery while we are experiencing it. But, I
am not really sure, and that's why I love this topic. As you say, it
may be impossible to figure out.
Carrie
2010-05-11 17:11:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharon
Post by Carrie
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" -
W-pI.161.4:1
K.. I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper. If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although
it appears that there are many minds, they still contain all. So
for all intents and purposes, there is one mind. If you had a whole
bunch of computers with running the same program, you could say
there was many with the same program, but this does not make any of
them unique or outside of another, or in any way anything more then
just one single program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with
minds that will awaken to Heaven before another mind. What happens
to one, happens to all. If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember
Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me. I am literally you. One
Self.
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our
"status" as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we
find ourselves in, in time. In other words, while in dream world.
Let me explain further; there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake
then say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that
one person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another? A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND. The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are. To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call
the Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this. Say a "happy" person looks out
into the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think
that personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in
it. And just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever
they "want" to see. However, its not because that individual is
making up the world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are
seeing an effect of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world
peopled with unhappiness (and some happy people and etc) THAT is
making up the world you see not the individual. It all equally as
meaningless. Happy, unhappy, sick or healthy, none of it means
anything at all and all is equally a dream. The Course says it's
"YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
So, in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all,
can waken.
Stepping off podium now. Haha. Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally. :D
I like to throw stuff around, too, see if a discussion starts.
Sometimes one does but NOT what I had in mind. Most of the time it
gets ignored.
I think your quote, in a simple way (not sure we can comprehend it
totally, like the mind can't really know itself?) refers to "mass
consciousness". Like we create our own reality, but at the same time
it all blends and creates everything else (what seems to be)
overall. I picture it like a fluid and moving tapestry of zillions
of colors and shapes all blending together and shifting into one.-
Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Thanks for your imput Carrie, and yes, I like to think of it as a
moving, living tapestry blending as One too. However, I'm not sure
about making your OWN reality, as you say, as far as the dream. It
seems this is one dream, and it just appears to be shared by many. We
are told this is an illusion, that we are really just one mind (or
every mind is one..as if in some sort of holographic way maybe).
Now, I do think we can make a choice as to which voice we listen to
within our holographic minds (for a lack of a better way of putting
it). But, we don't make or own individual dream world as people. We
only choose happiness or misery while we are experiencing it. But, I
am not really sure, and that's why I love this topic. As you say, it
may be impossible to figure out.
Making one's own reality, as in personal perception, choices, within the
context of the Whole? If we (each) don't create out own reality- I am am
referring to what see, feel, hear, PERCEIVE as "out there") who or what else
does? If the world is a manifestation of ego mind, ego mind isn't "one".
There's also lesson 251 that says "and which I choose to see I will
behold".
And, the line "seek not to change the world, but change your mind about
it" (and what you see will change)
It makes sense that if there is a "world" (in any sense) and we believe
we are part of it, separated ego minds, we must each be seeing it, and thus
creating it (for ourselves) in our own way. No matter how tiny this might
be.
Carrie
2010-05-06 16:34:19 UTC
Permalink
Another point, I once read something Edgar Cayce supposedly said to
someone who was complaining about the state of the world (how terrible
things seemed) (and Cayce was back in the 1930's) He said something like
"just be the best person YOU can be and live the best way YOU can and 'the
rest of the world' will take care of itself".
Little drops of water, little grains of sand make the ocean and land.
That sort of thing. Makes sense and I like things that make sense. Because
we probably can't REALLY understand and comprehend a lot of this, otherwise.
And maybe don't need to.
Pieter
2010-05-08 21:48:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K..
- Who is 'K', or what does it mean?
Post by Sharon
I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper. If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all. So for all
intents and purposes, there is one mind. If you had a whole bunch of
computers with running the same program, you could say there was many
with the same program, but this does not make any of them unique or
outside of another, or in any way anything more then just one single
program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind. What happens to one,
happens to all. If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me. I am literally you. One
Self.
When I identify with the ego thought system,
then I think I am what I am not. Then I am not
aware of my true nature, and do not know
that I am one in mind with all my brothers,
let alone that I am aware of my oneness with
my brothers and with God.
Post by Sharon
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time. In other words, while in dream world.
Let me explain further; there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake then
say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
- It is only the AWARENESS of
our true nature which must be restored.
(Part of) the Son did not change himself
by falling asleep. We still are completely
innocent and in Heaven.
We ARE the One Son, even when
we deny it. When *you* acknowledge
you are the One Son, that does not mean
that I and my neighbors automatically
acknowledge this as well. That is our own
responsibility and choice.

"As long as a single "slave" remains to walk
the earth, your release is not complete." T-1.VII.3:13
Post by Sharon
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another? A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND. The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
I would say: The mind that dreams
of separation thinks it is alone.
Post by Sharon
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are. To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call the
Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this. Say a "happy" person looks out into
the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think that
personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in it. And
just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever they "want"
to see. However, its not because that individual is making up the
world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are seeing an effect
of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled with unhappiness
(and some happy people and etc) THAT is making up the world you see
not the individual.
"THAT is making up the world you see not the individual":

This comes across to me as denying the Son
in one's brothers and in oneself. When one denies
that one's brothers are parts of the One Son
(irrespective if they think of themselves that they
live on themselves), one denies the Son as well,
since there is no difference between the part and
the whole.
Post by Sharon
It all equally as meaningless. Happy, unhappy,
sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all and all is equally a
dream. The Course says it's "YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
You can write 'you' in capitals, but that does not
change that 'you' is in everyone. Everyone *is*
(part of) the One Son.
Post by Sharon
So, in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all, can
waken.
Stepping off podium now. Haha. Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally. :D
Carrie
2010-05-08 23:41:40 UTC
Permalink
"K" in texting, chat, or such means Okay. I guess when people text they
don't like to write things outright if they don't have to. But "K" means,
well it's Okay- alright, all is well.
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K..
- Who is 'K', or what does it mean?
Post by Sharon
I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper. If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all. So for
all intents and purposes, there is one mind. If you had a whole
bunch of computers with running the same program, you could say
there was many with the same program, but this does not make any of
them unique or outside of another, or in any way anything more then
just one single program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind. What happens to one,
happens to all. If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me. I am literally you. One
Self.
When I identify with the ego thought system,
then I think I am what I am not. Then I am not
aware of my true nature, and do not know
that I am one in mind with all my brothers,
let alone that I am aware of my oneness with
my brothers and with God.
Post by Sharon
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time. In other words, while in dream world.
Let me explain further; there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake
then say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
- It is only the AWARENESS of
our true nature which must be restored.
(Part of) the Son did not change himself
by falling asleep. We still are completely
innocent and in Heaven.
We ARE the One Son, even when
we deny it. When *you* acknowledge
you are the One Son, that does not mean
that I and my neighbors automatically
acknowledge this as well. That is our own
responsibility and choice.
"As long as a single "slave" remains to walk
the earth, your release is not complete." T-1.VII.3:13
Post by Sharon
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another? A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND. The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
I would say: The mind that dreams
of separation thinks it is alone.
Post by Sharon
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are. To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call
the Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this. Say a "happy" person looks out
into the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think
that personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in
it. And just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever
they "want" to see. However, its not because that individual is
making up the world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are
seeing an effect of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled
with unhappiness (and some happy people and etc) THAT is making up
the world you see not the individual.
This comes across to me as denying the Son
in one's brothers and in oneself. When one denies
that one's brothers are parts of the One Son
(irrespective if they think of themselves that they
live on themselves), one denies the Son as well,
since there is no difference between the part and
the whole.
Post by Sharon
It all equally as meaningless. Happy, unhappy,
sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all and all is equally
a dream. The Course says it's "YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
You can write 'you' in capitals, but that does not
change that 'you' is in everyone. Everyone *is*
(part of) the One Son.
Post by Sharon
So, in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all,
can waken.
Stepping off podium now. Haha. Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally. :D
Pieter
2010-05-09 09:19:10 UTC
Permalink
 "K" in texting, chat, or such means Okay.  I guess when people text they
don't like to write things outright if they don't have to. But "K" means,
well it's Okay- alright, all is well.
- Thanks for explaining!
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K..
- Who is 'K', or what does it mean?
Carrie
2010-05-09 17:07:28 UTC
Permalink
It's like a whole new language is starting.
LIke in texting people tend to put "UR" for you are.
shortcuts I guess.
Must be confusing to those not used to it, trying to make sense of it the
way it looks.
I remember when I used to write letters (with a pen on paper) I would
sometimes put Tho or Thru
for though or through, etc. I remember if I wrote to someone in another
country, I'd always spell it out the correct way.
Post by Pieter
"K" in texting, chat, or such means Okay. I guess when people text
they don't like to write things outright if they don't have to. But
"K" means, well it's Okay- alright, all is well.
- Thanks for explaining!
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" -
W-pI.161.4:1
K..
- Who is 'K', or what does it mean?
Sharon
2010-05-09 20:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K..
- Who is 'K', or what does it mean?
Yea, as Carrie mentioned, it means "Okay"
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper.  If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all.  So for all
intents and purposes, there is one mind.   If you had a whole bunch of
computers with running the same program, you could say there was many
with the same program, but this does not make any of them unique or
outside of another, or in any way anything more then just one single
program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind.  What happens to one,
happens to all.  If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me.   I am literally you.  One
Self.
When I identify with the ego thought system,
then I think I am what I am not. Then I am not
aware of my true nature, and do not know
that I am one in mind with all my brothers,
let alone that I am aware of my oneness with
my brothers and with God.
Yes, I agree with that.
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time.  In other words,  while in dream world.
Let me explain further;  there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake then
say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
- It is only the AWARENESS of
our true nature which must be restored.
(Part of) the Son did not change himself
by falling asleep. We still are completely
innocent and in Heaven.
We ARE the One Son, even when
we deny it. When *you* acknowledge
you are the One Son, that does not mean
that I and my neighbors automatically
acknowledge this as well. That is our own
responsibility and choice.
I think it must be realized that it is impossible for the Son of God
to be asleep.
Post by Pieter
"As long as a single "slave" remains to walk
the earth, your release is not complete." T-1.VII.3:13
Sharon:

Because as long as the dreaming mind believes it is even one single
slave, it is still delusional.
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another?  A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND.  The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
I would say: The mind that dreams
of separation thinks it is alone.
How about the mind that dreams of many, has forgetten it's is really
One.
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are.   To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call the
Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this.  Say a "happy" person looks out into
the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think that
personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in it.  And
just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever they "want"
to see.   However, its not because that individual is making up the
world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are seeing an effect
of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled with unhappiness
(and some happy people and etc)  THAT is making up the world you see
not the individual.
This comes across to me as denying the Son
in one's brothers and in oneself. When one denies
that one's brothers are parts of the One Son
(irrespective if they think of themselves that they
live on themselves), one denies the Son as well,
since there is no difference between the part and
the whole.
We are all "parts" in the sense that in a dream, there are many
"parts" and "roles" but the dreamer is still one. This is not denying
the son that is dreaming the dream, only denying that we are the dream
or body/personalities.
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
It all equally as meaningless. Happy, unhappy,
sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all and all is equally a
dream.   The Course says it's "YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
You can write 'you' in capitals, but that does not
change that 'you' is in everyone. Everyone *is*
(part of) the One Son.
Again, as I said, "everyone" is the One Son, because we are all a
projection of the sleeping son, so he is "us"-- in that sense.
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
So,  in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all,  can
waken.
Stepping off podium now.  Haha.  Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally.  :D- Hide quoted text -
Thanks Pieter.. I will get to your other email in a little bit...

Sharon
Pieter
2010-05-10 16:18:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
- It is only the AWARENESS of
our true nature which must be restored.
(Part of) the Son did not change himself
by falling asleep. We still are completely
innocent and in Heaven.
We ARE the One Son, even when
we deny it. When *you* acknowledge
you are the One Son, that does not mean
that I and my neighbors automatically
acknowledge this as well. That is our own
responsibility and choice.
I think it must be realized that it is impossible for the Son of God
to be asleep.
The impossible did not happen;
we only think it did.
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another? A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND. The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
I would say: The mind that dreams
of separation thinks it is alone.
How about the mind that dreams of many, has forgetten it's is really
One.
- I wonder where the expression
"the mind that dreams of many"
does come from. I do not find it in ACIM.
Falling asleep is due to the belief in separation.
Then perception replaces knowledge.
What is perceived then is experienced
as apart from, and other than, the perceiver.

- My point is that we are not being dreamed.
I am responsible for my own dreaming, which
does not differ from the dreaming of the world:

"The gap between reality and dreams lies not between the
dreaming of the world and what you dream in secret. They
are one. The dreaming of the world is but a part of your
own dream you gave away, and saw as if it were its start
and ending, both. Yet was it started by your secret dream,
which you do not perceive although it caused the part you
see and do not doubt is real." T-27.VII.11:4-7

To state that I am but one of many that
are being dreamed by a certain "one dreamer",
would, imo, obscure the fact that

"I *am* responsible for what I see.
I choose the feelings I experience, and I decide
upon the goal I would achieve.
And everything that seems to happen to me
I ask for, and receive as I have asked."
T-21.II.2:3-5
Sharon
2010-05-10 20:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
I think it must be realized that it is impossible for the Son of God
to be asleep.
The impossible did not happen;
we only think it did.
Yes, the impossible did not happen. :)
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another?  A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND.  The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
I would say: The mind that dreams
of separation thinks it is alone.
How about the mind that dreams of many, has forgetten it's is really
One.
- I wonder where the expression
"the mind that dreams of many"
does come from. I do not find it in ACIM.
Falling asleep is due to the belief in separation.
Then perception replaces knowledge.
What is perceived then is experienced
as apart from, and other than, the perceiver.
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" If every mind
contains all minds.. for all intents and purposes, it's one mind
dreaming it's many (bodies and personalities). Every body may contain
a "mind that contains all minds" (don't know) but that still doesn't
get around it being one mind. If one part of the mind remembered
Heaven, how could the whole not?
Post by Pieter
- My point is that we are not being dreamed.
I am responsible for my own dreaming, which
Are you saying the figures in the dream are not being dreamt?
"Figures", as in people that appear to walk the streets.. all that?

Yes, you are responsible. If you had a sleeping dream that you were
something you weren't, wouldn't the figure in the dream be, in
essence, you? Of course, because you are the dreamer. And yes, it
would matter what you, in the dream choose to think, if you wanted to
wake up from the dream.
Post by Pieter
"The gap between reality and dreams lies not between the
dreaming of the world and what you dream in secret. They
are one. The dreaming of the world is but a part of your
own dream you gave away, and saw as if it were its start
and ending, both. Yet was it started by your secret dream,
which you do not perceive although it caused the part you
see and do not doubt is real." T-27.VII.11:4-7
To state that I am but one of many that
are being dreamed by a certain "one dreamer",
would, imo, obscure the fact that
I disagree. It actually is pointing out that you only think you dream
in secret, a dream that has "a start and and ending" (as in a life
span) but this is false. What you think are you own private dreams
and the dream you see are one, because it was really started by a
dream that "you do not perceive" although it CAUSED the part you see
and do not doubt is real (your body/personailty). It all fits, imo.
Post by Pieter
"I *am* responsible for what I see.
I choose the feelings I experience, and I decide
upon the goal I would achieve.
And everything that seems to happen to me
I ask for, and receive as I have asked."
T-21.II.2:3-5- Hide quoted text -
Yes, because you, as a person, can choose which part of the mind to
align yourself with - the part that reflects insanity or truth. But
that does make each person (billions of them) separate dreamers. There
is only one, and it's a split mind (dreaming). How could there be
more.. when we are told that in reality.. there is only one Son that
shares one mind with God?
Pieter
2010-05-11 22:34:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
I think it must be realized that it is impossible for the Son of God
to be asleep.
The impossible did not happen;
we only think it did.
Yes, the impossible did not happen. :)
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another? A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND. The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
I would say: The mind that dreams
of separation thinks it is alone.
How about the mind that dreams of many, has forgetten it's is really
One.
- I wonder where the expression
"the mind that dreams of many"
does come from. I do not find it in ACIM.
Falling asleep is due to the belief in separation.
Then perception replaces knowledge.
What is perceived then is experienced
as apart from, and other than, the perceiver.
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" If every mind
contains all minds.. for all intents and purposes, it's one mind
dreaming it's many (bodies and personalities). Every body may contain
a "mind that contains all minds" (don't know) but that still doesn't
get around it being one mind. If one part of the mind remembered
Heaven, how could the whole not?
Post by Pieter
- My point is that we are not being dreamed.
I am responsible for my own dreaming, which
Are you saying the figures in the dream are not being dreamt?
"Figures", as in people that appear to walk the streets.. all that?
When I see my brother as a body,
I have ignored his reality, and made of him
what he is not, namely a dream figure in my dream.
Post by Sharon
Yes, you are responsible. If you had a sleeping dream that you were
something you weren't, wouldn't the figure in the dream be, in
essence, you? Of course, because you are the dreamer. And yes, it
would matter what you, in the dream choose to think, if you wanted to
wake up from the dream.
In dreams we have at night it is extra clear
that the figures we see in them are in our own minds.
Though when we sleep we think we meet others,
outside of ourselves.
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
"The gap between reality and dreams lies not between the
dreaming of the world and what you dream in secret. They
are one. The dreaming of the world is but a part of your
own dream you gave away, and saw as if it were its start
and ending, both. Yet was it started by your secret dream,
which you do not perceive although it caused the part you
see and do not doubt is real." T-27.VII.11:4-7
To state that I am but one of many that
are being dreamed by a certain "one dreamer",
would, imo, obscure the fact that
I disagree. It actually is pointing out that you only think you dream
in secret, a dream that has "a start and an ending" (as in a life
span) but this is false. What you think are you own private dreams
and the dream you see are one, because it was really started by a
dream that "you do not perceive" although it CAUSED the part you see
and do not doubt is real (your body/personality). It all fits, imo.
I agree with you here!
We are not being dreamed by the dream of the world:
it is our OWN dream we gave away.
We are not born into this world against our will.
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
"I *am* responsible for what I see.
I choose the feelings I experience, and I decide
upon the goal I would achieve.
And everything that seems to happen to me
I ask for, and receive as I have asked."
T-21.II.2:3-5- Hide quoted text -
Yes, because you, as a person, can choose which part of the mind to
align yourself with - the part that reflects insanity or truth. But
that does make each person (billions of them) separate dreamers.
Not really. We THINK we are separate dreamers,
and because of that have to take personal responsibility
for what happens to us. Only thus is the bridge being
build between me and my brother (and God); between
me and what I thought was separate from me.
Post by Sharon
There
is only one, and it's a split mind (dreaming). How could there be
more.. when we are told that in reality.. there is only one Son that
shares one mind with God?
That is what we have to awaken to.
eluq
2010-05-12 01:57:31 UTC
Permalink
Hi Pieter and Sharon and . . . good discussion thnx

Is a dreamer responsible for the dream? If not maybe the dream comparison
to the separation scenario isn't an accurate comparison. Can you be
responsible if you are unaware? If you've really forgotten something can
you be responsible for what you've forgotten?

(I'll state this as fact but we all know the many limitations) Somehow even
all of this perceiving, consciousness, time, space and matter has to be held
in a mind that is not subject to these ideas. There is a mind being this.
Most likely since it has been asked and answered there is a mind being this
by remembering the separation idea. At Oneness there can only be BEING.
Ultimately there can only be a mind being this though it may just be a
fantasy of that mind and it was resolved in the instant it was thought.

But then it seems to get even more complicated, at least from my little
toadstool perspective. It seems mind can think on its own or separate from
spirit. Below is a lengthy compilation of C quotes that mol supports the
independence of mind from spirit but yet can't really be separate.

"What can they seem to be but empty sounds; pretty, perhaps, correct in
sentiment, yet fundamentally not understood nor understandable. The mind
that taught itself to think specifically can no longer grasp abstraction in
the sense that it is all-encompassing." Guess I'm bumping into that
statement kind of hard.

jon




Holiness can never be really hidden in darkness, but you can deceive
yourself about it. This deception makes you fearful because you realize in
your heart it is a deception, and you exert enormous efforts to establish
its reality. The miracle sets reality where it belongs. Reality belongs
only to spirit, and the miracle acknowledges only truth. It thus dispels
illusions about yourself, and puts you in communion with yourself and God.
The miracle joins in the Atonement by placing the mind in the service of the
Holy Spirit. This establishes the proper function of the mind and corrects
its errors, which are merely lacks of love. Your mind can be possessed by
illusions, but spirit is eternally free. If a mind perceives without love,
it perceives an empty shell and is unaware of the spirit within. But the
Atonement restores spirit to its proper place. The mind that serves spirit
is invulnerable.



Whatever is true is eternal, and cannot change or be changed. Spirit is
therefore unalterable because it is already perfect, but the mind can elect
what it chooses to serve. The only limit put on its choice is that it
cannot serve two masters. If it elects to do so, the mind can become the
medium by which spirit creates along the line of its own creation. If it
does not freely elect to do so, it retains its creative potential but places
itself under tyrannous rather than Authoritative control. As a result it
imprisons, because such are the dictates of tyrants. To change your mind
means to place it at the disposal of true Authority.



Only the mind can create because spirit has already been created, and the
body is a learning device for the mind.



Before miracle workers are ready to undertake their function in this world,
it is essential that they fully understand the fear of release. Otherwise
they may unwittingly foster the belief that release is imprisonment, a
belief that is already very prevalent. This misperception arises in turn
from the belief that harm can be limited to the body. That is because of
the underlying fear that the mind can hurt itself. None of these errors is
meaningful, because the miscreations of the mind do not really exist. This
recognition is a far better protective device than any form of level
confusion, because it introduces correction at the level of the error. It
is essential to remember that only the mind can create, and that correction
belongs at the thought level. To amplify an earlier statement, spirit is
already perfect and therefore does not require correction. The body does
not exist except as a learning device for the mind. This learning device is
not subject to errors of its own, because it cannot create. It is obvious,
then, that inducing the mind to give up its miscreations is the only
application of creative ability that is truly meaningful.



It should be emphasized again that the body does not learn any more than it
creates. As a learning device it merely follows the learner, but if it is
falsely endowed with self-initiative, it becomes a serious obstruction to
the very learning it should facilitate. Only the mind is capable of
illumination. Spirit is already illuminated and the body in itself is too
dense. The mind, however, can bring its illumination to the body by
recognizing that it is not the learner, and is therefore unamenable to
learning. The body is, however, easily brought into alignment with a mind
that has learned to look beyond it toward the light.

Corrective learning always begins with the awakening of spirit, and the
turning away from the belief in physical sight. This often entails fear,
because you are afraid of what your spiritual sight will show you.



Perception always involves some misuse of mind, because it brings the mind
into areas of uncertainty. The mind is very active. When it chooses to be
separated it chooses to perceive. Until then it wills only to know.
Afterwards it can only choose ambiguously, and the only way out of ambiguity
is clear perception. The mind returns to its proper function only when it
wills to know. This places it in the service of spirit, where perception is
changed. The mind chooses to divide itself when it chooses to make its own
levels. But it could not entirely separate itself from spirit, because it
is from spirit that it derives its whole power to make or create. Even in
miscreation the mind is affirming its Source, or it would merely cease to
be. This is impossible, because the mind belongs to spirit which God
created and which is therefore eternal.



The ability to perceive made the body possible, because you must perceive
something and with something. That is why perception involves an exchange
or translation, which knowledge does not need. The interpretative function
of perception, a distorted form of creation, then permits you to interpret
the body as yourself in an attempt to escape from the conflict you have
induced. Spirit, which knows, could not be reconciled with this loss of
power, because it is incapable of darkness. This makes spirit almost
inaccessible to the mind and entirely inaccessible to the body. Thereafter,
spirit is perceived as a threat, because light abolishes darkness merely by
showing you it is not there. Truth will always overcome error in this way.
This cannot be an active process of correction because, as I have already
emphasized, knowledge does not do anything. It can be perceived as an
attacker, but it cannot attack. What you perceive as its attack is your own
vague recognition that knowledge can always be remembered, never having been
destroyed.

God and His creations remain in surety, and therefore know that
no miscreation exists. Truth cannot deal with errors that you want. I was
a man who remembered spirit and its knowledge. As a man I did not attempt
to counteract error with knowledge, but to correct error from the bottom up.
I demonstrated both the powerlessness of the body and the power of the mind.
By uniting my will with that of my Creator, I naturally remembered spirit
and its real purpose. I cannot unite your will with God's for you, but I
can erase all misperceptions from your mind if you will bring it under my
guidance. Only your misperceptions stand in your way. Without them your
choice is certain. Sane perception induces sane choosing. I cannot choose
for you, but I can help you make your own right choice. "Many are called
but few are chosen" should be, "All are called but few choose to listen."
Therefore, they do not choose right. The "chosen ones" are merely those who
choose right sooner. Right minds can do this now, and they will find rest
unto their souls. God knows you only in peace, and this is your reality.



Eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge is a symbolic expression for
usurping the ability for self-creating. This is the only sense in which God
and His creations are not co-creators. The belief that they are is implicit
in the "self-concept," or the tendency of the self to make an image of
itself. Images are perceived, not known. Knowledge cannot deceive, but
perception can. You can perceive yourself as self-creating, but you cannot
do more than believe it. You cannot make it true. And, as I said before,
when you finally perceive correctly you can only be glad that you cannot.
Until then, however, the belief that you can is the foundation stone in your
thought system, and all your defenses are used to attack ideas that might
bring it to light. You still believe you are an image of your own making.
Your mind is split with the Holy Spirit on this point, and there is no
resolution while you believe the one thing that is literally inconceivable.
That is why you cannot create and are filled with fear about what you make.

The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very
fearful, and this belief is the "devil." It is powerful, active,
destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies
His Fatherhood. Look at your life and see what the devil has made.



I do not attack your ego. I do work with your higher mind, the home of the
Holy Spirit, whether you are asleep or awake, just as your ego does with
your lower mind, which is its home. I am your vigilance in this, because
you are too confused to recognize your own hope. I am not mistaken. Your
mind will elect to join with mine, and together we are invincible.



I have repeatedly emphasized that one level of the mind is not
understandable to another



The separation is merely another term for a split mind.



Ideas of the spirit do not leave the mind that thinks them, nor can they
conflict with each other. However, ideas of the ego can conflict because
they occur at different levels and also include opposite thoughts at the
same level. It is impossible to share opposing thoughts. You can share only
the thoughts that are of God and that He keeps for you. And of such is the
Kingdom of Heaven. The rest remains with you until the Holy Spirit has
reinterpreted them in the light of the Kingdom, making them, too, worthy of
being shared. When they have been sufficiently purified He lets you give
them away. The decision to share them is their purification.



The Holy Spirit, like the ego, is a decision. Together they constitute all
the alternatives the mind can accept and obey. The Holy Spirit and the ego
are the only choices open to you. God created one, and so you cannot
eradicate it. You made the other, and so you can. Only what God creates is
irreversible and unchangeable. What you made can always be changed because,
when you do not think like God, you are not really thinking at all.
Delusional ideas are not real thoughts, although you can believe in them.
But you are wrong. The function of thought comes from God and is in God.
As part of His Thought, you cannot think apart from Him.



God commended His Spirit to you, and asks that you commend yours to Him. He
wills to keep it in perfect peace, because you are of one mind and spirit
with Him. Excluding yourself from the Atonement is the ego's last-ditch
defense of its own existence. It reflects both the ego's need to separate,
and your willingness to side with its separateness. This willingness means
that you do not want to be healed.



Thoughts begin in the mind of the thinker, from which they reach outward.
This is as true of God's Thinking as it is of yours. Because your mind is
split, you can perceive as well as think. Yet perception cannot escape the
basic laws of mind. You perceive from your mind and project your
perceptions outward. Although perception of any kind is unreal, you made it
and the Holy Spirit can therefore use it well. He can inspire perception
and lead it toward God. This convergence seems to be far in the future only
because your mind is not in perfect alignment with the idea, and therefore
does not want it now.

The Holy Spirit uses time, but does not believe in it. Coming
from God He uses everything for good, but He does not believe in what is not
true. Since the Holy Spirit is in your mind, your mind can also believe
only what is true. The Holy Spirit can speak only for this, because He
speaks for God. He tells you to return your whole mind to God, because it
has never left Him. If it has never left Him, you need only perceive it as
it is to be returned. The full awareness of the Atonement, then, is the
recognition that the separation never occurred. The ego cannot prevail
against this because it is an explicit statement that the ego never
occurred.



The ego cannot hear the Holy Spirit, but it does believe that part of the
mind that made it is against it. It interprets this as a justification for
attacking its maker. It believes that the best defense is attack, and wants
you to believe it. Unless you do believe it you will not side with it, and
the ego feels badly in need of allies, though not of brothers. Perceiving
something alien to itself in your mind, the ego turns to the body as its
ally, because the body is not part of you. This makes the body the ego's
friend. It is an alliance frankly based on separation. If you side with
this alliance you will be afraid, because you are siding with an alliance of
fear.

The ego uses the body to conspire against your mind, and because
the ego realizes that its "enemy" can end them both merely by recognizing
they are not part of you, they join in the attack together. This is perhaps
the strangest perception of all, if you consider what it really involves.
The ego, which is not real, attempts to persuade the mind, which is real,
that the mind is the ego's learning device; and further, that the body is
more real than the mind is. No one in his right mind could possibly believe
this, and no one in his right mind does believe it.



God does not teach. To teach is to imply a lack, which God knows is not
there. God is not conflicted. Teaching aims at change, but God created
only the changeless. The separation was not a loss of perfection, but a
failure in communication. A harsh and strident form of communication arose
as the ego's voice. It could not shatter the peace of God, but it could
shatter yours. God did not blot it out, because to eradicate it would be to
attack it. Being questioned, He did not question. He merely gave the
Answer. His Answer is your Teacher.



We have said that without projection there can be no anger, but it is also
true that without extension there can be no love. These reflect a
fundamental law of the mind, and therefore one that always operates. It is
the law by which you create and were created. It is the law that unifies
the Kingdom, and keeps it in the Mind of God. To the ego, the law is
perceived as a means of getting rid of something it does not want. To the
Holy Spirit, it is the fundamental law of sharing, by which you give what
you value in order to keep it in your mind. To the Holy Spirit it is the
law of extension. To the ego it is the law of deprivation. It therefore
produces abundance or scarcity, depending on how you choose to apply it.
This choice is up to you, but it is not up to you to decide whether or not
you will utilize the law. Every mind must project or extend, because that
is how it lives, and every mind is life.

The ego's use of projection must be fully understood before the
inevitable association between projection and anger can be finally undone.
The ego always tries to preserve conflict. It is very ingenious in devising
ways that seem to diminish conflict, because it does not want you to find
conflict so intolerable that you will insist on giving it up. The ego
therefore tries to persuade you that it can free you of conflict, lest you
give the ego up and free yourself. Using its own warped version of the laws
of God, the ego utilizes the power of the mind only to defeat the mind's
real purpose. It projects conflict from your mind to other minds, in an
attempt to persuade you that you have gotten rid of the problem.



Save him from his illusions that you may accept the magnitude of your Father
in peace and joy. But exempt no one from your love, or you will be hiding a
dark place in your mind where the Holy Spirit is not welcome. And thus you
will exempt yourself from His healing power, for by not offering total love
you will not be healed completely. Healing must be as complete as fear, for
love cannot enter where there is one spot of fear to mar its welcome.

You who prefer separation to sanity cannot obtain it in your
right mind. You were at peace until you asked for special favor. And God
did not give it for the request was alien to Him, and you could not ask this
of a Father Who truly loved His Son. Therefore you made of Him an unloving
father, demanding of Him what only such a father could give. And the peace
of God's Son was shattered, for he no longer understood his Father. He
feared what he had made, but still more did he fear his real Father, having
attacked his own glorious equality with Him.

In peace he needed nothing and asked for nothing. In war he
demanded everything and found nothing. For how could the gentleness of love
respond to his demands, except by departing in peace and returning to the
Father? If the Son did not wish to remain in peace, he could not remain at
all. For a darkened mind cannot live in the light, and it must seek a place
of darkness where it can believe it is where it is not. God did not allow
this to happen. Yet you demanded that it happen, and therefore believed
that it was so.

To "single out" is to "make alone," and thus make lonely. God
did not do this to you. Could He set you apart, knowing that your peace
lies in His Oneness? He denied you only your request for pain, for
suffering is not of His creation. Having given you creation, He could not
take it from you. He could but answer your insane request with a sane
answer that would abide with you in your insanity. And this He did. No one
who hears His answer but will give up insanity. For His answer is the
reference point beyond illusions, from which you can look back on them and
see them as insane. But seek this place and you will find it, for Love is
in you and will lead you there.



Spirit makes use of mind as means to find its Self expression. And the mind
which serves the spirit is at peace and filled with joy. Its power comes
from spirit, and it is fulfilling happily its function here. Yet mind can
also see itself divorced from spirit, and perceive itself within a body it
confuses with itself. Without its function then it has no peace, and
happiness is alien to its thoughts.

Yet mind apart from spirit cannot think. It has denied its
Source of strength, and sees itself as helpless, limited and weak.
Dissociated from its function now, it thinks it is alone and separate,
attacked by armies massed against itself and hiding in the body's frail
support. Now must it reconcile unlike with like, for this is what it thinks
that it is for.
Sharon
2010-05-12 08:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi Pieter and Sharon and . . .  good discussion thnx
Hi Jon.. glad you could join us. :) I'm going to print what you
wrote (and quoted from the C), read it, and get back to you on this
later. Thanks and good to see you here :)

Sharon
Is a dreamer responsible for the dream?  If not maybe the dream comparison
to the separation scenario isn't an accurate comparison.  Can you be
responsible if you are unaware?  If you've really forgotten something can
you be responsible for what you've forgotten?
(I'll state this as fact but we all know the many limitations)  Somehow even
all of this perceiving, consciousness, time, space and matter has to be held
in a mind that is not subject to these ideas.  There is a mind being this.
Most likely since it has been asked and answered there is a mind being this
by remembering the separation idea.  At Oneness there can only be BEING.
Ultimately there can only be a mind being this though it may just be a
fantasy of that mind and it was resolved in the instant it was thought.
But then it seems to get even more complicated, at least from my little
toadstool perspective.  It seems mind can think on its own or separate from
spirit.  Below is a lengthy compilation of C quotes that mol supports the
independence of mind from spirit but yet can't really be separate.
"What can they seem to be but empty sounds; pretty, perhaps, correct in
sentiment, yet fundamentally not understood nor understandable. The mind
that taught itself to think specifically can no longer grasp abstraction in
the sense that it is all-encompassing."   Guess I'm bumping into that
statement kind of hard.
jon
Pieter
2010-06-13 13:47:45 UTC
Permalink
Hi jon,

Here is a very belated answer,
which I still always wanted to give.
It is only now that it is achieved.
I hope you are still around, and interested;
see below.

Pieter.
Hi Pieter and Sharon and . . . good discussion thnx
Is a dreamer responsible for the dream?
- Of course a dreamer is.
If not maybe the dream comparison
to the separation scenario isn't an accurate comparison. Can you be
responsible if you are unaware?
If I separate myself from reality and
(in my own eyes at least) make myself
completely independent from it, having
nothing to do with it, then how could I
any longer remember what it is?
ACIM is right that if I separate myself from
reality and then call the state I find myself in
"reality" (- this state ACIM calls dreaming),
I cannot return to reality on my own.
Yet it was my own decision and responsibility
to separate myself from reality.
If you've really forgotten something can
you be responsible for what you've forgotten?
When you take responsibility *for the forgetting*,
then remembering is made possible.
What must be remembered is one's true nature.
(Example: the lunatic must remember he is not
Napoleon, in order to be sane again; regain
his senses.)
(I'll state this as fact but we all know the many limitations) Somehow
even
all of this perceiving, consciousness, time, space and matter has to be held
in a mind that is not subject to these ideas. There is a mind being this.
Most likely since it has been asked and answered there is a mind being this
by remembering the separation idea. At Oneness there can only be BEING.
Ultimately there can only be a mind being this though it may just be a
fantasy of that mind and it was resolved in the instant it was thought.
But then it seems to get even more complicated, at least from my little
toadstool perspective. It seems mind can think on its own or separate from
spirit. Below is a lengthy compilation of C quotes that mol supports the
independence of mind from spirit but yet can't really be separate.
"What can they seem to be but empty sounds; pretty, perhaps, correct in
sentiment, yet fundamentally not understood nor understandable. The mind
that taught itself to think specifically can no longer grasp abstraction in
the sense that it is all-encompassing." Guess I'm bumping into that
statement kind of hard.
jon
Sharon
2010-05-12 08:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter
 > - My point is that we are not being dreamed.
Post by Pieter
I am responsible for my own dreaming, which
Are you saying the figures in the dream are not being dreamt?
"Figures", as in people that appear to walk the streets.. all that?
When I see my brother as a body,
I have ignored his reality, and made of him
what he is not, namely a dream figure in my dream.
Interesting, however noone in this conversation is claiming that our
true Identity as the one Son of God is of that of a body. I'm saying
that you, as Pieter (body/personality) can be more or less a puppet
(your word - not mind) to the split mind (or, for the matter, it could
be used as a service to the Holy Spirit as well). Now, if you think
the Son of God is Pieter's body and/or personality (or part of the Son
of God) then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Now, I would
agree that we each carry an essence of spirit that carries a
remembrance of our real Identity (for a lack of a better way of
putting it)... and this can be recognized by our brother. But, I
don't think our body, personality or memories that we had here while
on earth (what makes us human) are part of Heaven or our Identity.
Post by Pieter
Yes, you are responsible.  If you had a sleeping dream that you were
something you weren't, wouldn't the figure in the dream be, in
essence, you?  Of course, because you are the dreamer.  And yes, it
would matter what you, in the dream choose to think,  if you wanted to
wake up from the dream.
In dreams we have at night it is extra clear
that the figures we see in them are in our own minds.
Though when we sleep we think we meet others,
outside of ourselves.
Exactly. It appears there are many outside of the dreamer's, and so
therefore it takes the blame and guilt (for causing the separation)
and puts it out into the world (dream) rather than on the dreamer.
Post by Pieter
Post by Pieter
"The gap between reality and dreams lies not between the
dreaming of the world and what you dream in secret. They
are one. The dreaming of the world is but a part of your
own dream you gave away, and saw as if it were its start
and ending, both. Yet was it started by your secret dream,
which you do not perceive although it caused the part you
see and do not doubt is real." T-27.VII.11:4-7
To state that I am but one of many that
are being dreamed by a certain "one dreamer",
would, imo, obscure the fact that
I disagree.  It actually is pointing out that you only think you dream
in secret, a dream that has "a start and an ending" (as in a life
span) but this is false.  What you think are you own private dreams
and the dream you see are one, because it was really started by a
dream that "you do not perceive" although it CAUSED the part you see
and do not doubt is real (your body/personality).  It all fits, imo.
I agree with you here!
it is our OWN dream we gave away.
We are not born into this world against our will.
OK, cool :) And that's a great point .. we are not born against our
will..because the choice was made as the dreamer.
Post by Pieter
Post by Pieter
"I *am* responsible for what I see.
I choose the feelings I experience, and I decide
upon the goal I would achieve.
And everything that seems to happen to me
I ask for, and receive as I have asked."
T-21.II.2:3-5- Hide quoted text -
Yes, because you, as a person, can choose which part of the mind to
align yourself with - the part that reflects insanity or truth.  But
that does make each person (billions of them) separate dreamers.
Not really. We THINK we are separate dreamers,
and because of that have to take personal responsibility
for what happens to us. Only thus is the bridge being
build between me and my brother (and God); between
me and what I thought was separate from me.
I had a typo in my prior post.. I meant to say "But, that does NOT
make each person billions of separate dreamers. So, yes, I agree, we
only think we are separate, and yes, we have to take personal
responsibility by becoming miracle mindedness. I understand and
agree that we are not separate in Reality, and we need to be healed of
the belief we hold about our oneness in Christ. That's not the
issue. The issue is, is that it appears that you think that you (as
Pieter's personality and memory of Pieter) have something to do with
your part in the Sonship. All the years that I have known you, I have
never been sure if you really believe this or not. Maybe you don't..
and I have misunderstood you.



Sharon
Pieter
2010-05-13 20:28:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
- My point is that we are not being dreamed.
I am responsible for my own dreaming, which
Are you saying the figures in the dream are not being dreamt?
"Figures", as in people that appear to walk the streets.. all that?
When I see my brother as a body,
I have ignored his reality, and made of him
what he is not, namely a dream figure in my dream.
Interesting, however no one in this conversation is claiming that our
true Identity as the one Son of God is of that of a body. I'm saying
that you, as Pieter (body/personality) can be more or less a puppet
(your word - not mind) to the split mind (or, for the matter, it could
be used as a service to the Holy Spirit as well). Now, if you think
the Son of God is Pieter's body and/or personality (or part of the Son
of God) then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
"Pieter's personality" imo just is how others see me
(and how I see myself as well). Just as I am not my
body, I am not my "personality". What I am in truth
is God's beloved Son, as you are, and everyone is.
That is what I have to (and everyone will) awaken to.
I can only be a puppet to myself. When I think I am
being manipulated by whatever or whomever, then
I deny my true nature (- which is only "tragic in time",
as the Course states). And see myself as a victim of
forces outside of myself which I cannot control.
Now, I would
agree that we each carry an essence of spirit that carries a
remembrance of our real Identity (for a lack of a better way of
putting it)... and this can be recognized by our brother.
- Here you apparently see your brother as
a body and a personality, with deep inside
some "essence of spirit". How one sees
one's brother, so one sees oneself.
We are asked to learn to see ONLY what is
real in our brothers (which imo are the fellow
human beings we have to do with), only their
reality, NOT the illusion they made of themselves
or we made of them; THUS we get to know
our own true nature.
Although the Course says:

"Salvation does not ask that you behold the spirit
and perceive the body not. It merely asks that
this should be your choice." T-31.VI.3:1-2
But, I
don't think our body, personality or memories that we had here while
on earth (what makes us human) are part of Heaven or our Identity.
Completely agreed.
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
Yes, you are responsible. If you had a sleeping dream that you were
something you weren't, wouldn't the figure in the dream be, in
essence, you? Of course, because you are the dreamer. And yes, it
would matter what you, in the dream choose to think, if you wanted to
wake up from the dream.
In dreams we have at night it is extra clear
that the figures we see in them are in our own minds.
Though when we sleep we think we meet others,
outside of ourselves.
Exactly. It appears there are many outside of the dreamer's, and so
therefore it takes the blame and guilt (for causing the separation)
and puts it out into the world (dream) rather than on the dreamer.
Yes, agreed.
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
"The gap between reality and dreams lies not between the
dreaming of the world and what you dream in secret. They
are one. The dreaming of the world is but a part of your
own dream you gave away, and saw as if it were its start
and ending, both. Yet was it started by your secret dream,
which you do not perceive although it caused the part you
see and do not doubt is real." T-27.VII.11:4-7
To state that I am but one of many that
are being dreamed by a certain "one dreamer",
would, imo, obscure the fact that
I disagree. It actually is pointing out that you only think you dream
in secret, a dream that has "a start and an ending" (as in a life
span) but this is false. What you think are you own private dreams
and the dream you see are one, because it was really started by a
dream that "you do not perceive" although it CAUSED the part you see
and do not doubt is real (your body/personality). It all fits, imo.
I agree with you here!
it is our OWN dream we gave away.
We are not born into this world against our will.
OK, cool :) And that's a great point .. we are not born against our
will..because the choice was made as the dreamer.
Belief in separation must have preceded
one's being born in this world.
Post by Pieter
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
"I *am* responsible for what I see.
I choose the feelings I experience, and I decide
upon the goal I would achieve.
And everything that seems to happen to me
I ask for, and receive as I have asked."
T-21.II.2:3-5- Hide quoted text -
Yes, because you, as a person, can choose which part of the mind to
align yourself with - the part that reflects insanity or truth. But
that does make each person (billions of them) separate dreamers.
Not really. We THINK we are separate dreamers,
and because of that have to take personal responsibility
for what happens to us. Only thus is the bridge being
build between me and my brother (and God); between
me and what I thought was separate from me.
I had a typo in my prior post.. I meant to say "But, that does NOT
make each person billions of separate dreamers. So, yes, I agree, we
only think we are separate, and yes, we have to take personal
responsibility by becoming miracle mindedness. I understand and
agree that we are not separate in Reality, and we need to be healed of
the belief we hold about our oneness in Christ. That's not the
issue. The issue is, is that it appears that you think that you (as
Pieter's personality and memory of Pieter) have something to do with
your part in the Sonship. All the years that I have known you, I have
never been sure if you really believe this or not. Maybe you don't..
and I have misunderstood you.
"it appears that you think that you (as Pieter's personality
and memory of Pieter) have something to do with your
part in the Sonship."

I *as I am in truth* has everything to do with
being part of the Sonship. That I am called
"Pieter" now is by chance; it could have been
whatever name, and my "personality" is just
how others see me. The abilities to be aware
and to think, which we take for granted, are
of God. Here on earth they are as uncleaned
silver, which looks black. Yet they are Divine
faculties.
My and your and everyone's real quality will
appear to be "Christ". Though even this name
does but *represent* Reality, and isn't Reality
itself.
Sharon
Pieter
2010-05-20 13:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharon
Post by Pieter
"The gap between reality and dreams lies not between the
dreaming of the world and what you dream in secret. They
are one. The dreaming of the world is but a part of your
own dream you gave away, and saw as if it were its start
and ending, both. Yet was it started by your secret dream,
which you do not perceive although it caused the part you
see and do not doubt is real." T-27.VII.11:4-7
To state that I am but one of many that
are being dreamed by a certain "one dreamer",
would, imo, obscure the fact that
I disagree. It actually is pointing out that you only think you dream
in secret, a dream that has "a start and ending" (as in a life
span) but this is false.
When living here on earth, I do not think
I am dreaming. "Secret dream" imo means
that *I do not know that I am dreaming*.
That is why what I perceive I experience as
*outside* of myself, and myself as being born
*into* it.
ACIM makes clear to me that the world I
experience here is but a dream, whom I myself
started, because of the part of the belief in
separation I am responsible for.
Post by Sharon
What you think are you own private dreams
and the dream you see are one, because it was really started by a
dream that "you do not perceive" although it CAUSED the part you see
and do not doubt is real (your body/personality). It all fits, imo.
Post by Pieter
"I *am* responsible for what I see.
I choose the feelings I experience, and I decide
upon the goal I would achieve.
And everything that seems to happen to me
I ask for, and receive as I have asked."
T-21.II.2:3-5- Hide quoted text -
Yes, because you, as a person, can choose which part of the mind to
align yourself with - the part that reflects insanity or truth. But
that does not make each person (billions of them) separate dreamers. There
is only one, and it's a split mind (dreaming). How could there be
more.. when we are told that in reality.. there is only one Son that
shares one mind with God?
The practical side is that I experience myself as
being in a separate body, and that I am responsible
for my belief in separation (my dreaming);
I only need to accept the Atonement for myself,
in order to heal the world I see. The mere intellectual
knowledge that "there is but one mind" is not identical
with being healed.
- Do you agree with that?
Sharon
2010-05-21 07:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pieter
Post by Pieter
The practical side is that I experience myself as
being in a separate body, and that I am responsible
for my belief in separation (my dreaming);
I only need to accept the Atonement for myself,
in order to heal the world I see. The mere intellectual
knowledge that "there is but one mind" is not identical
with being healed.
- Do you agree with that?- Hide quoted text -
Yep, I agree that intellectual knowledge is not identical with healing
(or miracles). Thanks for the discussion Pieter, it's been
interesting. :))
mr bill
2010-05-10 03:22:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K.. I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper.  If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all.  So for all
intents and purposes, there is one mind.   If you had a whole bunch of
computers with running the same program, you could say there was many
with the same program, but this does not make any of them unique or
outside of another, or in any way anything more then just one single
program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind.  What happens to one,
happens to all.  If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me.   I am literally you.  One
Self.
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time.  In other words,  while in dream world.
Let me explain further;  there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake then
say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another?  A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND.  The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are.   To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call the
Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this.  Say a "happy" person looks out into
the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think that
personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in it.  And
just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever they "want"
to see.   However, its not because that individual is making up the
world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are seeing an effect
of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled with unhappiness
(and some happy people and etc)  THAT is making up the world you see
not the individual.  It all equally as meaningless. Happy, unhappy,
sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all and all is equally a
dream.   The Course says it's "YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
So,  in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all,  can
waken.
Stepping off podium now.  Haha.  Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally.  :D
i like to look at it this way
there is but one mind
for there is but one name
"tell them i am hath sent you"
there is only "i"
"he" and "she" and "they"
belong only to "me"
not to "i"
:)
Sharon
2010-05-10 20:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by mr bill
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K.. I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper.  If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all.  So for all
intents and purposes, there is one mind.   If you had a whole bunch of
computers with running the same program, you could say there was many
with the same program, but this does not make any of them unique or
outside of another, or in any way anything more then just one single
program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind.  What happens to one,
happens to all.  If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me.   I am literally you.  One
Self.
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time.  In other words,  while in dream world.
Let me explain further;  there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake then
say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another?  A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND.  The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are.   To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call the
Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this.  Say a "happy" person looks out into
the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think that
personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in it.  And
just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever they "want"
to see.   However, its not because that individual is making up the
world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are seeing an effect
of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled with unhappiness
(and some happy people and etc)  THAT is making up the world you see
not the individual.  It all equally as meaningless. Happy, unhappy,
sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all and all is equally a
dream.   The Course says it's "YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
So,  in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all,  can
waken.
Stepping off podium now.  Haha.  Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally.  :D
i like to look at it this way
there is but one mind
for there is but one name
"tell them i am hath sent you"
there is only "i"
"he" and "she" and "they"
belong only to "me"
not to "i"
:)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nicely put :) Awesome to see you again, Mr. Bill
mr bill
2010-05-17 17:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by mr bill
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K.. I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper.  If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all.  So for all
intents and purposes, there is one mind.   If you had a whole bunch of
computers with running the same program, you could say there was many
with the same program, but this does not make any of them unique or
outside of another, or in any way anything more then just one single
program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind.  What happens to one,
happens to all.  If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me.   I am literally you.  One
Self.
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time.  In other words,  while in dream world.
Let me explain further;  there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake then
say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another?  A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND.  The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are.   To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call the
Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this.  Say a "happy" person looks out into
the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think that
personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in it.  And
just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever they "want"
to see.   However, its not because that individual is making up the
world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are seeing an effect
of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled with unhappiness
(and some happy people and etc)  THAT is making up the world you see
not the individual.  It all equally as meaningless. Happy, unhappy,
sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all and all is equally a
dream.   The Course says it's "YOU" doing it, because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
So,  in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all,  can
waken.
Stepping off podium now.  Haha.  Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally.  :D
i like to look at it this way
there is but one mind
for there is but one name
"tell them i am hath sent you"
there is only "i"
"he" and "she" and "they"
belong only to "me"
not to "i"
:)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nicely put :)  Awesome to see you again, Mr. Bill
good to see you too, sharon
:)
Carrie
2010-05-11 17:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by mr bill
Post by Sharon
I would like to see what everyone thinks of this quote from the
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one" - W-pI.161.4:1
K.. I'm basically going to ramble some thoughts out on paper. If it
makes sense to someone, cool, if not it's all good with way.
To me, the above statement is basically pointing out that although it
appears that there are many minds, they still contain all. So for all
intents and purposes, there is one mind. If you had a whole bunch of
computers with running the same program, you could say there was many
with the same program, but this does not make any of them unique or
outside of another, or in any way anything more then just one single
program.
There is nothing outside of one mind, no individual people with minds
that will awaken to Heaven before another mind. What happens to one,
happens to all. If "one" remembers Heaven, we ALL remember Heaven.
If every mind contains all minds, there cannot be anything that
happens you that is not happening to me. I am literally you. One
Self.
Another thing, that I have been pondering is whether or not sickness
or depression (or fill in the blank of things that seem "wrong" with
us as individual persons) has anything to do AT ALL with our "status"
as "awakening beings" other then just a temporary state we find
ourselves in, in time. In other words, while in dream world.
Let me explain further; there seems to be an idea that if a
personality is "awakened", happy, joyful, and never sick etc, that
this has some reflection on their mind being more healed or awake
then say a person with a miserable life or many illness.
"Every mind contains all minds, for every mind is one"
With that in mind, so to speak, how can it be literally true that one
person/mind/being could be "more" or "less" healed or sick than
another? A miracle or forgiveness heals THE MIND. The one mind that
dreamed it was many.
Imo, all a person can do is become detached from the idea that they
are an individual with special thoughts. We are not what we think we
are. To be "at peace" they can choose with the part of there mind
(that contains ALL minds) that still reflects sanity (that we call
the Holy Spirit).
But, there "mind" is no more "healed" then the so-called "rest".
Another fallacy seems to be this. Say a "happy" person looks out into
the world and sees unhappiness in others, some seem to think that
personality is making up a "world" with an unhappy person in it. And
just "choose once again" and see happy people or whatever they "want"
to see. However, its not because that individual is making up the
world peopled with unhappiness, it's because they are seeing an
effect of the ONE MIND that is dreaming of a world peopled with
unhappiness (and some happy people and etc) THAT is making up the
world you see not the individual. It all equally as meaningless.
Happy, unhappy, sick or healthy, none of it means anything at all
and all is equally a dream. The Course says it's "YOU" doing it,
because YOU are the
split mind hiding behind all the many masks.
So, in summery, you as a person can't *really* be "healed" and
"awakened" and another "part" of you be sick and unenlightened when
it's all one dreamer. In Truth, only one mind, that contains all, can
waken.
Stepping off podium now. Haha. Hey.. I like to throw this stuff
around so noone take anything I said too personally. :D
i like to look at it this way
there is but one mind
for there is but one name
"tell them i am hath sent you"
there is only "i"
"he" and "she" and "they"
belong only to "me"
not to "i"
:)
I is plural and we is singular.
The world is upside down and backwards and not the same as "reality" as
it's come to be known?
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