analytical theory vs. experience - Discuss

[course zealot]

"It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal
of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the validity of
reincarnation become meaningless.

Until then, they are likely to be merely controversial. The teacher of God is,
therefore, wise to step away from all such questions, for he has much to teach and
learn apart from them."

It seems to say but only because they are likely to be controversial.


"He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time, draining
it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any concept or belief
that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also be told how to use
it. What more need he know?"
acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?

Yet:

"A theoretical foundation such as the text provides is necessary as a framework to
make the exercises in this workbook meaningful."
- acim, workbook, first sentence

It would seem, without a theoretical foundation of analytical concepts, we are
sort of lost. Meditate on peace, or meditate on light? Or Chant? The Course
doesn't mention Chanting.

Are we trying to be religious scientists? separate the wheat from the chaff, etc.
How is science not the answer? It would just seem that
materialist/atheist/deathists scientists just disregard the self. Such as one
whom believes in creationism, they start with preconceived ideas. It's one thing
to try to prove a hypothesis, but perhaps they weren't good scientists _enough_.
God can have no meaning without a concept of YOU. Quantum mechanics is now
proving the SELF, and proving that an experiment has a different result when an
observer is present.

YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.

A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for
everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
responsibility, to be the savior of the Universe.

God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?

“a deep sleep fell upon Adam”. ... Mrs. Eddy was correct in emphasizing that
nowhere is there any reference made to his waking up. While Christian Science is
clearly incomplete, this point is much in its favor." - acim Urtext

It's solipsism vs. duality.

What happens if two miracle workers disagree?

I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a
child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a
mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know
just as I also am known."
1 Corinthians 13:11

When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.

What is salvation but to overcome the world, to know God, or both?

And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people
problems? And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?

When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the
bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

When infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other
infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another,
Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do
*you* want?"

but apparently these people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.

Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart. If you think you have
a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you thus want to hurt
others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will
waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die. You don't _want_ other
people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.

Are we still to use miracles for war?

How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
Egyptian army in the Red Sea, etc. compare to Jesus' miracles, who never hurt anyone:

"And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to
Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
to save them.” And they went to another village."
- Luke 9:52

"47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
priest and cut off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
healed him." - Luke 22:47

[course zealot]

What do you want out of anybody? On the internet you have strangers as an
audience. Without the internet, you would have only friends who _knew_ you to act
in front of. On the internet you can make up any character you want. Who do you
want to be?

Do you have an idea about somebody, because of what they've said before?

You don't know strangers. You don't know people on the internet. You don't know
people who you are in conflict with. That is called _estrangement_.

You have the ability in life to change your character. Life is about finding out
who you are, and becoming who you want to be. Who do you want to be? Somebody
whom other people want. Whom do other people want? Someone who wants them. What
is rapport but the development of friendship which is love.

Ad hominen attacks insult the messenger and not the message. Should not the
dictates of logic and reason and intelligence and truth stand on their own, for
they are true, regardless of who said them, as a mathematical theory is true?


"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell
where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
- Jesus Christ, John 3:8

[course zealot]

Post by course zealot
What do you want out of anybody? On the internet you have strangers as an
audience. Without the internet, you would have only friends who _knew_ you to act
in front of. On the internet you can make up any character you want. Who do you
want to be?
Do you have an idea about somebody, because of what they've said before?
You don't know strangers. You don't know people on the internet. You don't know
people who you are in conflict with. That is called _estrangement_.
You have the ability in life to change your character. Life is about finding out
who you are, and becoming who you want to be. Who do you want to be? Somebody
whom other people want. Whom do other people want? Someone who wants them. What
is rapport but the development of friendship which is love.
Ad hominen attacks insult the messenger and not the message. Should not the
dictates of logic and reason and intelligence and truth stand on their own, for
they are true, regardless of who said them, as a mathematical theory is true?
"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell
where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
- Jesus Christ, John 3:8

People are subjects and not objects. In fact, there are only subjects in this
world. An object is a point, and a point is nothing. There is no such thing as a
point. There is no such thing as nothing. There are only subjects. All things
have consciousness. Even a rock is a subject and has a consciousness. A rock has
a being. And only One Self runs through all things. This Self is bigger than the
ocean. And yet how do we reconcile Solipsism with Duality?

"You could, in fact, gain vision from just that table, if you would withdraw all
your own ideas from it, and look upon it with a completely open mind. It has
something to show you; something beautiful and clean and of infinite value, full
of happiness and hope. Hidden under all your ideas about it is its real purpose,
the purpose it shares with all the universe.
In using the table as a subject for applying the idea for today, you are therefore
really asking to see the purpose of the universe."
- acim, Workbook Lesson 28 - "Above all else I want to see things differently."

Death is nothing. Nothing does not exist. There is no such thing as nothing.
There is no such thing as death.

There is only the subject. There is only the Self. This is a fact. It does not
matter if you say it, or if someone says it to you. You can not contend with it.

At least... that's my presumption. I hope I have that right. Science just tells
us what's _most likely_ true. How do we know what's really out there? I'm merely
trying to make analytical concepts conform to reality. And do I fully know what
reality is? It must be our goal to come to fully know reality, and reveal
intrinsic truth, must it not?

To attack someone you have to first objectify them. And yet, there is no such
thing as an object. So it must somehow be their error to identify with this
object you say they are... such as the body, or a self-concept. Though it may
seem we're all at the mercy of those who would back-stab us in our sleep.

[course zealot]

Is reincarnation so? "Birth was not the beginning, and death is not the end" "It
is at this moment,that complete salvation is offered you"


"The emphasis of this course always remains the same;--it is at this moment that
complete salvation is offered you, and it is at this moment that you can accept
it. This is still your one responsibility."


"Does this mean that the teacher of God should not believe in reincarnation
himself, or discuss it with others who do? The answer is, certainly not! If he
does believe in reincarnation, it would be a mistake for him to renounce the
belief unless his internal Teacher so advised. And this is most unlikely. He might
be advised that he is misusing the belief in some way that is detrimental to his
pupil's advance or his own. Reinterpretation would then be recommended, because it
is necessary. All that must be recognized, however, is that birth was not the
beginning, and death is not the end. Yet even this much is not required of the
beginner. He need merely accept the idea that what he knows is not necessarily all
there is to learn. His journey has begun.
The emphasis of this course always remains the same;--it is at this moment that
complete salvation is offered you, and it is at this moment that you can accept
it. This is still your one responsibility. Atonement might be equated with total
escape from the past and total lack of interest in the future. Heaven is here.
There is nowhere else. Heaven is now. There is no other time. No teaching that
does not lead to this is of concern to God's teachers. All beliefs will point to
this if properly interpreted. In this sense, it can be said that their truth lies
in their usefulness. All beliefs that lead to progress should be honored. This is
the sole criterion this course requires. No more than this is necessary."
acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?

[course zealot]

Post by course zealot
"It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal
of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the validity of
reincarnation become meaningless.
Until then, they are likely to be merely controversial. The teacher of God is,
therefore, wise to step away from all such questions, for he has much to teach and
learn apart from them."
It seems to say but only because they are likely to be controversial.
"He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time, draining
it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any concept or belief
that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also be told how to use
it. What more need he know?"
acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?
"A theoretical foundation such as the text provides is necessary as a framework to
make the exercises in this workbook meaningful."
- acim, workbook, first sentence
It would seem, without a theoretical foundation of analytical concepts, we are
sort of lost. Meditate on peace, or meditate on light? Or Chant? The Course
doesn't mention Chanting.
Are we trying to be religious scientists? separate the wheat from the chaff, etc.
How is science not the answer? It would just seem that
materialist/atheist/deathists scientists just disregard the self. Such as one
whom believes in creationism, they start with preconceived ideas. It's one thing
to try to prove a hypothesis, but perhaps they weren't good scientists _enough_.
God can have no meaning without a concept of YOU. Quantum mechanics is now
proving the SELF, and proving that an experiment has a different result when an
observer is present.
YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.
A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for
everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
responsibility, to be the savior of the Universe.
God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?
“a deep sleep fell upon Adam”. ... Mrs. Eddy was correct in emphasizing that
nowhere is there any reference made to his waking up. While Christian Science is
clearly incomplete, this point is much in its favor." - acim Urtext
It's solipsism vs. duality.
What happens if two miracle workers disagree?
I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a
child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a
mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know
just as I also am known."
1 Corinthians 13:11
When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.
What is salvation but to overcome the world, to know God, or both?
And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people
problems? And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?
When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the
bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?
When infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other
infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another,
Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do
*you* want?"
but apparently these people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.
Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart. If you think you have
a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you thus want to hurt
others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will
waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die. You don't _want_ other
people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.
Are we still to use miracles for war?
How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
"And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to
Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
to save them.” And they went to another village."
- Luke 9:52
"47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
priest and cut off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
healed him." - Luke 22:47

Keeping this current

[course zealot]

Post by course zealot
"It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal
of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the validity of
reincarnation become meaningless.
Until then, they are likely to be merely controversial. The teacher of God is,
therefore, wise to step away from all such questions, for he has much to teach and
learn apart from them."
It seems to say but only because they are likely to be controversial.
"He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time, draining
it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any concept or belief
that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also be told how to use
it. What more need he know?"
acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?
"A theoretical foundation such as the text provides is necessary as a framework to
make the exercises in this workbook meaningful."
- acim, workbook, first sentence
It would seem, without a theoretical foundation of analytical concepts, we are
sort of lost. Meditate on peace, or meditate on light? Or Chant? The Course
doesn't mention Chanting.
Are we trying to be religious scientists? separate the wheat from the chaff, etc.
How is science not the answer? It would just seem that
materialist/atheist/deathists scientists just disregard the self. Such as one
whom believes in creationism, they start with preconceived ideas. It's one thing
to try to prove a hypothesis, but perhaps they weren't good scientists _enough_.
God can have no meaning without a concept of YOU. Quantum mechanics is now
proving the SELF, and proving that an experiment has a different result when an
observer is present.
YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.
A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for
everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
responsibility, to be the savior of the Universe.
God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?
“a deep sleep fell upon Adam”. ... Mrs. Eddy was correct in emphasizing that
nowhere is there any reference made to his waking up. While Christian Science is
clearly incomplete, this point is much in its favor." - acim Urtext
It's solipsism vs. duality.
What happens if two miracle workers disagree?
I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a
child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a
mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know
just as I also am known."
1 Corinthians 13:11
When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.
What is salvation but to overcome the world, to know God, or both?
And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people
problems? And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?
When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the
bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?
When infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other
infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another,
Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do
*you* want?"
but apparently these people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.
Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart. If you think you have
a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you thus want to hurt
others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will
waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die. You don't _want_ other
people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.
Are we still to use miracles for war?
How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
"And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to
Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
to save them.” And they went to another village."
- Luke 9:52
"47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
priest and cut off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
healed him." - Luke 22:47

Bump

[course zealot]

A butterfly moving around doesn't offend, but it won't land on your hand and do
what you want, and if it infests your house it does offend.


I'm saying, it's just people moving around.


"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face."
When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.

Are we responsible for other's movements?


If you will recognize that all the attack [disagreement] you perceive is in your
own mind and nowhere else, you will at last have placed its source, and where it
begins it must end. For in this same place also lies salvation.
...Yet to find the place, you must relinquish your investment in the world as you
_project_ it, allowing [Your] Holy Spirit to _extend_ the real world to you from
the altar of God."
- A Course in Miracles, "The Holy Spirit's Curriculum" Chapter 12; "The
Investment in Reality" Section 3


Basically if we are responsible for other's movements, we must be responsible for
other's thoughts:


"There is another vision and another voice in which your freedom lies, awaiting
your choice. And if you place your faith in them, you will perceive another self
in you. This other self sees miracles as natural. They are as simple and as
natural to it as breathing to the body. They are the obvious response to calls
for help, the only one it makes. Miracles seem unnatural to the ego because it
does not understand how separate minds can influence each other. Nor *could* they
do so. But minds cannot be separate. This other self is perfectly aware of this.
And thus it recognizes that miracles do not affect another's mind, only its own.
They always change *your* mind. There is no other."
- A Course in Miracles, "Reason and Perception" Chapter 21, "The Function of
Reason" Section 5
"You do not realize the whole extent to which the idea of separation has
interfered with reason."

When you get to the point that you "perceive another self in you," it is not as if
"outside," like separate from you and the ego, which is merely the thought of
separation. But...

[course zealot]

Post by course zealot
"It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal
of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the validity of
reincarnation become meaningless.
Until then, they are likely to be merely controversial. The teacher of God is,
therefore, wise to step away from all such questions, for he has much to teach and
learn apart from them."
It seems to say but only because they are likely to be controversial.
"He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time, draining
it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any concept or belief
that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also be told how to use
it. What more need he know?"
acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?
"A theoretical foundation such as the text provides is necessary as a framework to
make the exercises in this workbook meaningful."
- acim, workbook, first sentence
It would seem, without a theoretical foundation of analytical concepts, we are
sort of lost. Meditate on peace, or meditate on light? Or Chant? The Course
doesn't mention Chanting.
Are we trying to be religious scientists? separate the wheat from the chaff, etc.
How is science not the answer? It would just seem that
materialist/atheist/deathists scientists just disregard the self. Such as one
whom believes in creationism, they start with preconceived ideas. It's one thing
to try to prove a hypothesis, but perhaps they weren't good scientists _enough_.
God can have no meaning without a concept of YOU. Quantum mechanics is now
proving the SELF, and proving that an experiment has a different result when an
observer is present.
YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.
A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for
everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
responsibility, to be the savior of the Universe.
God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?
“a deep sleep fell upon Adam”. ... Mrs. Eddy was correct in emphasizing that
nowhere is there any reference made to his waking up. While Christian Science is
clearly incomplete, this point is much in its favor." - acim Urtext
It's solipsism vs. duality.
What happens if two miracle workers disagree?
I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a
child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a
mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know
just as I also am known."
1 Corinthians 13:11
When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.
What is salvation but to overcome the world, to know God, or both?
And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people
problems? And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?
When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the
bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?
When infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other
infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another,
Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do
*you* want?"
but apparently these people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.
Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart. If you think you have
a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you thus want to hurt
others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will
waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die. You don't _want_ other
people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.
Are we still to use miracles for war?
How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
"And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to
Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
to save them.” And they went to another village."
- Luke 9:52
"47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
priest and cut off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
healed him." - Luke 22:47

Bump

[course zealot]

A butterfly moving around doesn't offend, but it won't land on your hand and do
what you want, and if it infests your house it does offend.

I'm saying, it's just people moving around.

What is salvation but to overcome the world, or to know God, or both?

And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people
problems?

And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?

When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the
Bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

What happens if two miracle workers disagree?

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face." 1 Corinthians 13:11

When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.

Are we responsible for other's movements?

"If you will recognize that all the attack [disagreement] you perceive is in your
own mind and nowhere else, you will at last have placed its source, and where it
begins it must end. For in this same place also lies salvation.
...Yet to find the place, you must relinquish your investment in the world as you
_project_ it, allowing [Your] Holy Spirit to _extend_ the real world to you from
the altar of God."
- A Course in Miracles, "The Holy Spirit's Curriculum" Chapter 12; "The
Investment in Reality" Section 3

Basically if we are responsible for other's movements, we must be responsible for
other's thoughts:

"There is another vision and another voice in which your freedom lies, awaiting
your choice. And if you place your faith in them, you will perceive another self
in you. This other self sees miracles as natural. They are as simple and as
natural to it as breathing to the body. They are the obvious response to calls
for help, the only one it makes. Miracles seem unnatural to the ego because it
does not understand how separate minds can influence each other. Nor *could* they
do so. But minds cannot be separate. This other self is perfectly aware of this.
And thus it recognizes that miracles do not affect another's mind, only its own.
They always change *your* mind. There is no other."
- A Course in Miracles, "Reason and Perception" Chapter 21, "The Function of
Reason" Section 5
"You do not realize the whole extent to which the idea of separation has
interfered with reason."

When you get to the point that you "perceive another self in you," it is not as if
"outside," like separate from you and the ego, which is merely the thought of
separation. But...


When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the
Bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

For when infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the
other infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one
another, Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no,
what do *you* want?"

But apparently some people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.

Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart.
If you think you have a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you
thus want to hurt others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself
more, if you ever will waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die.
You don't _want_ other people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take
jobs as sadists.

Are we still to use miracles for war?

How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
Egyptian army in the Red Sea, etc., compare to Jesus' miracles, who never hurt anyone:

"And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to
Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
to save them.” And they went to another village."
- Luke 9:52

"47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
priest and cut off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
healed him." - Luke 22:47


It's solipsism vs. duality.

I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.

A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for
everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
responsibility, for you, to be the savior of the Universe.

No concept of a God, existent without a concept of you, has any meaning (though
this is just in concepts and concepts, I think, aren't even actually, what is).

YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.

God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?


"I and My Father are one.”
- Jesus Christ, John 10:30, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


"Freedom is the only gift you can offer to God's Sons, being an acknowledgment of
what they are and what he is. Freedom is creation, because it is love. Whom you
seek to imprison you do not love. Therefore, when you seek to imprison anyone,
including yourself, you do not love him and you cannot identify with him. When
you imprison yourself you are losing sight of your true identification with me and
with the Father. Your identification is with the Father and with the Son. It
cannot be with One and not the Other. If you are part of One you must be part of
the Other, because They are One. The Holy Trinity is holy because It is One. If
you exclude yourself from this union, you are perceiving the Holy Trinity as
separated. You must be included in It, because It is everything. Unless you take
your place in It and fulfill your function as part of It, the Holy Trinity is as
bereft as you are. No part of It can be imprisoned if Its truth is to be known."
- A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 4

[course zealot]

Post by course zealot
"It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal
of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the validity of
reincarnation become meaningless.
Until then, they are likely to be merely controversial. The teacher of God is,
therefore, wise to step away from all such questions, for he has much to teach and
learn apart from them."
It seems to say but only because they are likely to be controversial.
"He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time, draining
it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any concept or belief
that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also be told how to use
it. What more need he know?"
acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?
"A theoretical foundation such as the text provides is necessary as a framework to
make the exercises in this workbook meaningful."
- acim, workbook, first sentence
It would seem, without a theoretical foundation of analytical concepts, we are
sort of lost. Meditate on peace, or meditate on light? Or Chant? The Course
doesn't mention Chanting.
Are we trying to be religious scientists? separate the wheat from the chaff, etc.
How is science not the answer? It would just seem that
materialist/atheist/deathists scientists just disregard the self. Such as one
whom believes in creationism, they start with preconceived ideas. It's one thing
to try to prove a hypothesis, but perhaps they weren't good scientists _enough_.
God can have no meaning without a concept of YOU. Quantum mechanics is now
proving the SELF, and proving that an experiment has a different result when an
observer is present.
YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.
A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for
everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
responsibility, to be the savior of the Universe.
God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?
“a deep sleep fell upon Adam”. ... Mrs. Eddy was correct in emphasizing that
nowhere is there any reference made to his waking up. While Christian Science is
clearly incomplete, this point is much in its favor." - acim Urtext
It's solipsism vs. duality.
What happens if two miracle workers disagree?
I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a
child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a
mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know
just as I also am known."
1 Corinthians 13:11
When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.
What is salvation but to overcome the world, to know God, or both?
And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people
problems? And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?
When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the
bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?
When infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other
infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another,
Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do
*you* want?"
but apparently these people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.
Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart. If you think you have
a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you thus want to hurt
others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will
waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die. You don't _want_ other
people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.
Are we still to use miracles for war?
How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
"And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to
Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
to save them.” And they went to another village."
- Luke 9:52
"47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
priest and cut off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
healed him." - Luke 22:47

Bump

[course zealot]

Post by course zealot
"It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal
of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the validity of
reincarnation become meaningless.
Until then, they are likely to be merely controversial. The teacher of God is,
therefore, wise to step away from all such questions, for he has much to teach and
learn apart from them."
It seems to say but only because they are likely to be controversial.
"He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time, draining
it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any concept or belief
that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also be told how to use
it. What more need he know?"
acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?
"A theoretical foundation such as the text provides is necessary as a framework to
make the exercises in this workbook meaningful."
- acim, workbook, first sentence
It would seem, without a theoretical foundation of analytical concepts, we are
sort of lost. Meditate on peace, or meditate on light? Or Chant? The Course
doesn't mention Chanting.
Are we trying to be religious scientists? separate the wheat from the chaff, etc.
How is science not the answer? It would just seem that
materialist/atheist/deathists scientists just disregard the self. Such as one
whom believes in creationism, they start with preconceived ideas. It's one thing
to try to prove a hypothesis, but perhaps they weren't good scientists _enough_.
God can have no meaning without a concept of YOU. Quantum mechanics is now
proving the SELF, and proving that an experiment has a different result when an
observer is present.
YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.
A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for
everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
responsibility, to be the savior of the Universe.
God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?
“a deep sleep fell upon Adam”. ... Mrs. Eddy was correct in emphasizing that
nowhere is there any reference made to his waking up. While Christian Science is
clearly incomplete, this point is much in its favor." - acim Urtext
It's solipsism vs. duality.
What happens if two miracle workers disagree?
I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a
child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a
mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know
just as I also am known."
1 Corinthians 13:11
When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.
What is salvation but to overcome the world, to know God, or both?
And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people
problems? And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?
When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the
bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?
When infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other
infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another,
Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do
*you* want?"
but apparently these people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.
Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart. If you think you have
a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you thus want to hurt
others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will
waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die. You don't _want_ other
people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.
Are we still to use miracles for war?
How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
"And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to
Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
to save them.” And they went to another village."
- Luke 9:52
"47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
priest and cut off his right ear.
51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
healed him." - Luke 22:47

Bump