Any Lucid Lurkers Out There?

[Lee Flynn]

Hi all,

I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.

Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?

~ Lee

[Carrie]

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Just for the sake of possible discussion, I know what you mean, lucid
dreaming, but the course says everything is a dream. So maybe you mean
"lucid dreaming" would be coming from Reality? If what we think is real is
illusion (a dream) then when we sleep, and dream, that might be getting in
touch with what is Real?
All we can really do is speculate.

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course
whose body of work references lucidity as a helpful
concept in approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Just for the sake of possible discussion, I know what you
mean, lucid dreaming, but the course says everything is a
dream.

The course also says that you need "Salvation" when there is
nothog to be saved from...

(among dozens of other falsehoods)

Post by Carrie
So maybe you mean "lucid dreaming" would be coming from
Reality? If what we think is real is illusion (a dream) then
when we sleep, and dream, that might be getting in touch with
what is Real? All we can really do is speculate.

The physical universe/Earthly reality is not an illusion. It's
_independence_ is.

The dream reality is our interface and interpreter with
our innner self, which is what actually creates this
reality.

It's as real as this reality, which IS quite real, despite
the garbage some demented Christians wrote in ACIM.

You'd know that if you were using your common sense instead
of listening to religious nuts.

These ACIM fools want you to believe that God is directly
responsible for physical reality, and this is not true at all.
The creative abilities _come_ from God, but then, so does
everything.

[toonkunst radio lelystad]

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course
whose body of work references lucidity as a helpful
concept in approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

 Just for the sake of possible discussion, I know what you
mean, lucid dreaming, but the course says everything is a
dream.

The course also says that you need "Salvation" when there is
nothog to be saved from...
(among dozens of other falsehoods)

So maybe you mean "lucid dreaming" would be coming from
Reality? If what we think is real is illusion (a dream) then
when we sleep, and dream, that might be getting in touch with
what is Real? All we can really do is speculate.

The physical universe/Earthly reality is not an illusion. It's
_independence_ is.
The dream reality is our interface and interpreter with
our innner self, which is what actually creates this
reality.
It's as real as this reality, which IS quite real, despite
the garbage some demented Christians wrote in ACIM.
You'd know that if you were using your common sense instead
of listening to religious nuts.
These ACIM fools want you to believe that God is directly
responsible for physical reality, and this is not true at all.
The creative abilities _come_ from God, but then, so does
everything.
--
Sidney Lambe / Evergreen - usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
Solitaire Wiccan Priest - Spellsinger Wiccahttp://tinyurl.com/63zc9bh-http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
All will be well. All manner of things will be well.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

hello,

its MAZ. I wanted to say hi, and share with you that Seth has
led me, in a way, to the Course. Just to let you know that
I do not share the POV that would make them antagonistic
or exclusive of each other.

For what its worth,
peace and blessings,
namazté

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, toonkunst radio lelystad

On May 28, 1:08=A0pm, Sidney Lambe

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have
found the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to
your understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course
whose body of work references lucidity as a helpful
concept in approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Just for the sake of possible discussion, I know what you
mean, lucid dreaming, but the course says everything is a
dream.

The course also says that you need "Salvation" when there is
nothog to be saved from...
(among dozens of other falsehoods)

Post by Carrie
So maybe you mean "lucid dreaming" would be coming from
Reality? If what we think is real is illusion (a dream) then
when we sleep, and dream, that might be getting in touch
with what is Real? All we can really do is speculate.

The physical universe/Earthly reality is not an illusion. It's
_independence_ is.
The dream reality is our interface and interpreter with our
innner self, which is what actually creates this reality.
It's as real as this reality, which IS quite real, despite the
garbage some demented Christians wrote in ACIM.
You'd know that if you were using your common sense instead of
listening to religious nuts.
These ACIM fools want you to believe that God is directly
responsible for physical reality, and this is not true at all.
The creative abilities _come_ from God, but then, so does
everything.

hello,
its MAZ. I wanted to say hi, and share with you that Seth has
led me, in a way, to the Course.

Meaning the books were beside each other the shelf?

Just to let you know that I do not share the POV that would
make them antagonistic or exclusive of each other.

They share some ideas that are compativle. And many that
are not.

You will not find the word "salvation" in "The Nature of
Personal Reality" by Jane Roberts (the second Seth Book).
But it's all through ACIM.

Nor is the word "miracle" used in his teachings as
an integral part of them. (He may use the word at some
point...there are over 30 volumes...)

They do not present compatible worldviews.

For what its worth, peace and blessings, namazt

Good to hear from you.

[Kaydon]

Post by Carrie

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Just for the sake of possible discussion, I know what you mean, lucid
dreaming, but the course says everything is a dream. So maybe you
mean "lucid dreaming" would be coming from Reality? If what we think
is real is illusion (a dream) then when we sleep, and dream, that
might be getting in touch with what is Real? All we can really do is
speculate.

I'm no lucid dream much but I'm Astral Project few times a week. It's
... there no words to describe it <3

xoxoxoxoo

[Carrie]

Post by Kaydon

Post by Carrie

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Just for the sake of possible discussion, I know what you mean, lucid
dreaming, but the course says everything is a dream. So maybe you
mean "lucid dreaming" would be coming from Reality? If what we think
is real is illusion (a dream) then when we sleep, and dream, that
might be getting in touch with what is Real? All we can really do is
speculate.

I'm no lucid dream much but I'm Astral Project few times a week. It's
... there no words to describe it <3

Do you purposely do it (or m aybe align with it) or it just
happens?

Post by Kaydon
xoxoxoxoo
--
"To be or not to be, that is the question. Unless you're a photon."

[Kaydon]

Post by Carrie

Post by Kaydon
I'm no lucid dream much but I'm Astral Project few times a week.
It's ... there no words to describe it <3

Do you purposely do it (or m aybe align with it) or it just
happens?

Purpose. I learned it from at this book
http://www.mediafire.com/?cyyyo1injylaft1

<3
xoxoxoxoo

[Carrie]

Post by Kaydon

Post by Carrie

Post by Kaydon
I'm no lucid dream much but I'm Astral Project few times a week.
It's ... there no words to describe it <3

Do you purposely do it (or m aybe align with it) or it just
happens?

Purpose. I learned it from at this book
http://www.mediafire.com/?cyyyo1injylaft1

Sounds like fun. Youare a never-ending source of good stuff to learn!

Post by Kaydon
<3
xoxoxoxoo
--
"To be or not to be, that is the question. Unless you're a photon."

[Lee Flynn]

Post by Carrie

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Just for the sake of possible discussion, I know what you mean, lucid
dreaming, but the course says everything is a dream.

I agree with the Course. All Creation is merely thought. And what is
any world or realm of experience but a dream -- or creative thought.
The important question for me to ask is, "What is the nature of the
dream, when dreamt with clarity."

While my mind forgets its nature as dreamer, and instead 'identifies'
with its mere dreambody as what -- and where -- it is, the dreamscape
seems separate from its thought and being. When my mind awakens,
or "goes fully lucid", it recognizes its nature as dreamer, across whose
mind the dreamscape (or world) innocently unfolds in thought. As
we're told in the Course, no one feels fear in a dream they *know*
that they're dreaming. In the absence of fear, my mind embraces the
creative movement of the dream -- come what may -- with love,
resourcefulness and discovery. And 'the world' is experienced as a
mental model, continuous with and sharing the holy nature of my
mind. Same goes for my dreambody, the creative instrument by
which I experience and communicate the realm's richness. "Now
is the body holy," as the Course explains.

Post by Carrie
So maybe you mean "lucid dreaming" would be coming from Reality?

Basically, yes. Whenever my mind awakens to its nature as dreamer,
amidst any realm or domain of experience, its own reality imparts
reality to what it beholds, because the illusion of body-identification
is stripped away. *ALL illusion is illusion about who, where and
what I am, relative to the 'world' that unfolds across my mind.*

Post by Carrie
If what we think
is real is illusion (a dream) then when we sleep, and dream, that
might be getting in touch with what is Real?

Night-time dreams are a venue where the mind can more readily
learn what it is to awaken <within> a domain of experience, as the
dreamer of that domain. Imo that's what's Real. To imagine myself
contained and constrained by my 'body', at peril within a hostile
world alien to me -- that's the unreal.

The Course describes that same movement of awakening as the
antidote to the body-identified sense of self and mistaken notion
of world that makes of our daylight 'dreams' a dream of separation
and fear. My mind is atoned as I awaken as dreamer <within>
any domain of experience, including this collaborative, daylight
dream we share together.

I hope that makes some sense.

Post by Carrie
All we can really do is speculate.

This curriculum is designed to be experienced. But yes, ultimately
one's interpretation of even experience is speculation, I suppose.

Thanks for the comments, Carrie.

~ Lee

[Carrie]

Post by Lee Flynn

Post by Carrie

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Just for the sake of possible discussion, I know what you mean, lucid
dreaming, but the course says everything is a dream.

I agree with the Course. All Creation is merely thought. And what is
any world or realm of experience but a dream -- or creative thought.
The important question for me to ask is, "What is the nature of the
dream, when dreamt with clarity."
While my mind forgets its nature as dreamer, and instead 'identifies'
with its mere dreambody as what -- and where -- it is, the dreamscape
seems separate from its thought and being. When my mind awakens,
or "goes fully lucid", it recognizes its nature as dreamer, across whose
mind the dreamscape (or world) innocently unfolds in thought. As
we're told in the Course, no one feels fear in a dream they *know*
that they're dreaming. In the absence of fear, my mind embraces the
creative movement of the dream -- come what may -- with love,
resourcefulness and discovery. And 'the world' is experienced as a
mental model, continuous with and sharing the holy nature of my
mind. Same goes for my dreambody, the creative instrument by
which I experience and communicate the realm's richness. "Now
is the body holy," as the Course explains.

Post by Carrie
So maybe you mean "lucid dreaming" would be coming from Reality?

Basically, yes. Whenever my mind awakens to its nature as dreamer,
amidst any realm or domain of experience, its own reality imparts
reality to what it beholds, because the illusion of body-identification
is stripped away. *ALL illusion is illusion about who, where and
what I am, relative to the 'world' that unfolds across my mind.*

Post by Carrie
If what we think
is real is illusion (a dream) then when we sleep, and dream, that
might be getting in touch with what is Real?

Night-time dreams are a venue where the mind can more readily
learn what it is to awaken <within> a domain of experience, as the
dreamer of that domain. Imo that's what's Real. To imagine myself
contained and constrained by my 'body', at peril within a hostile
world alien to me -- that's the unreal.
The Course describes that same movement of awakening as the
antidote to the body-identified sense of self and mistaken notion
of world that makes of our daylight 'dreams' a dream of separation
and fear. My mind is atoned as I awaken as dreamer <within>
any domain of experience, including this collaborative, daylight
dream we share together.
I hope that makes some sense.

Post by Carrie
All we can really do is speculate.

This curriculum is designed to be experienced. But yes, ultimately
one's interpretation of even experience is speculation, I suppose.
Thanks for the comments, Carrie.

It makes sense. I can see the benefit it might have, like people taking
drugs (LSD) became aware of more and that there was more. Kind of a short
cut to opening up to more. I guess I would rather aim at just living like
that and not constraining it to just sleeping-dreams LOL If everything is
illusion, then anything/everything is possible. The only limits are
mind/imagination.belief. Like I have decided a magician like Criss Angel
really does levitate and walk on water. Some people get furious when I write
this. Like they want me to know how DUMB that is, and he's just doing tricks
and has invisible wires held up by a helicopter that's so high it can't be
seen and heard! The people supposedly watching it are actors and planted
there to react and the video is cut in later. Why not just believe "it could
be possible"? Why is it that some believe that Jesus walked on water, and
said "what I do, anyone can do" but no one else ever could? If someone can
step out of the boundaries of "reality" (as we currently believe it) and
totally believe it enough so others seem to see it, too, why not? I'm just
saying it could be possible, and seems like the most peaceful way is just to
believe it is. Like no big deal. But then, it's also nothing to fight over
if people don't want to believe it LOL
Illusion is illusion, and no limits are no limits.
If you enjoy creating and controlling your life in dreams, wonderful. It
probably helps your awareness of the illusion of "reality" when you're not
sleeping, too.
And it is an interesting topic.

Post by Lee Flynn
~ Lee

[Lee Flynn]

Post by Carrie

Post by Lee Flynn

Post by Carrie

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Just for the sake of possible discussion, I know what you mean,
lucid dreaming, but the course says everything is a dream.

I agree with the Course. All Creation is merely thought. And what is
any world or realm of experience but a dream -- or creative thought.
The important question for me to ask is, "What is the nature of the
dream, when dreamt with clarity."
While my mind forgets its nature as dreamer, and instead 'identifies'
with its mere dreambody as what -- and where -- it is, the dreamscape
seems separate from its thought and being. When my mind awakens,
or "goes fully lucid", it recognizes its nature as dreamer, across
whose mind the dreamscape (or world) innocently unfolds in thought.
As we're told in the Course, no one feels fear in a dream they *know*
that they're dreaming. In the absence of fear, my mind embraces the
creative movement of the dream -- come what may -- with love,
resourcefulness and discovery. And 'the world' is experienced as a
mental model, continuous with and sharing the holy nature of my
mind. Same goes for my dreambody, the creative instrument by
which I experience and communicate the realm's richness. "Now
is the body holy," as the Course explains.

Post by Carrie
So maybe you mean "lucid dreaming" would be coming from Reality?

Basically, yes. Whenever my mind awakens to its nature as dreamer,
amidst any realm or domain of experience, its own reality imparts
reality to what it beholds, because the illusion of
body-identification is stripped away. *ALL illusion is illusion
about who, where and what I am, relative to the 'world' that unfolds
across my mind.*

Post by Carrie
If what we think
is real is illusion (a dream) then when we sleep, and dream, that
might be getting in touch with what is Real?

Night-time dreams are a venue where the mind can more readily
learn what it is to awaken <within> a domain of experience, as the
dreamer of that domain. Imo that's what's Real. To imagine myself
contained and constrained by my 'body', at peril within a hostile
world alien to me -- that's the unreal.
The Course describes that same movement of awakening as the
antidote to the body-identified sense of self and mistaken notion
of world that makes of our daylight 'dreams' a dream of separation
and fear. My mind is atoned as I awaken as dreamer <within>
any domain of experience, including this collaborative, daylight
dream we share together.
I hope that makes some sense.

Post by Carrie
All we can really do is speculate.

This curriculum is designed to be experienced. But yes, ultimately
one's interpretation of even experience is speculation, I suppose.
Thanks for the comments, Carrie.

It makes sense. I can see the benefit it might have, like people
taking drugs (LSD) became aware of more and that there was more. Kind
of a short cut to opening up to more. I guess I would rather aim at
just living like that and not constraining it to just sleeping-dreams
LOL If everything is illusion, then anything/everything is possible.
The only limits are mind/imagination.belief. Like I have decided a
magician like Criss Angel really does levitate and walk on water.
Some people get furious when I write this. Like they want me to know
how DUMB that is, and he's just doing tricks and has invisible wires
held up by a helicopter that's so high it can't be seen and heard!
The people supposedly watching it are actors and planted there to
react and the video is cut in later. Why not just believe "it could
be possible"? Why is it that some believe that Jesus walked on
water, and said "what I do, anyone can do" but no one else ever
could? If someone can step out of the boundaries of "reality" (as we
currently believe it) and totally believe it enough so others seem to
see it, too, why not? I'm just saying it could be possible, and
seems like the most peaceful way is just to believe it is. Like no
big deal. But then, it's also nothing to fight over if people don't
want to believe it LOL Illusion is illusion, and no limits are no
limits.
If you enjoy creating and controlling your life in dreams,
wonderful. It probably helps your awareness of the illusion of
"reality" when you're not sleeping, too.
And it is an interesting topic.

Glad you think so, Carrie. It's certainly had my attention for
a very long time. Thanks for your comments.

~ Lee

[Carrie]

"Lee Flynn" <***@att.net> wrote in message >>> Thanks for the
comments, Carrie.

Post by Lee Flynn

Post by Carrie
It makes sense. I can see the benefit it might have, like people
taking drugs (LSD) became aware of more and that there was more. Kind
of a short cut to opening up to more. I guess I would rather aim at
just living like that and not constraining it to just sleeping-dreams
LOL If everything is illusion, then anything/everything is possible.
The only limits are mind/imagination.belief. Like I have decided a
magician like Criss Angel really does levitate and walk on water.
Some people get furious when I write this. Like they want me to know
how DUMB that is, and he's just doing tricks and has invisible wires
held up by a helicopter that's so high it can't be seen and heard!
The people supposedly watching it are actors and planted there to
react and the video is cut in later. Why not just believe "it could
be possible"? Why is it that some believe that Jesus walked on
water, and said "what I do, anyone can do" but no one else ever
could? If someone can step out of the boundaries of "reality" (as we
currently believe it) and totally believe it enough so others seem to
see it, too, why not? I'm just saying it could be possible, and
seems like the most peaceful way is just to believe it is. Like no
big deal. But then, it's also nothing to fight over if people don't
want to believe it LOL Illusion is illusion, and no limits are no
limits.
If you enjoy creating and controlling your life in dreams,
wonderful. It probably helps your awareness of the illusion of
"reality" when you're not sleeping, too.
And it is an interesting topic.

Glad you think so, Carrie. It's certainly had my attention for
a very long time. Thanks for your comments.
~ Lee

Do you think it might be a sort of bleeding over between the different
levels (only word I can think of)?
I listen to Abraham (Esther Hicks) which is a group of non physcial
beings, who speak through Esther. I listen because it makes sense and I like
their attitude (teaching and not preaching) (you can check it out on YouTube
if you don't know them. Once someone asked about ACIM and Abraham said...
"oh yes..." like they knew it and it's something good.) Anyway, one time
Abraham was saying how Jerry woke up in the morning and told Esther (his
wife) he had a very real dream and in it, he was writing all the parts, what
everyone was saying, doing, etc. Like he was orchestrating it all. Abraham
said, that's how it is when NOT sleeping, too, just we're not usually aware
of it. Or, I guess believe it. Now, some will say it sounds like
manipulation and control of others, when everyone has free will, and we
can't create in the reality of another (Abraham says) and this is true. But,
what they say is, everyone creates their own reality, and one person can't
inflict anything on anyone else, unless they are willing to have this happen
(and thus it would be their own relaity) Sort of like overlapping layers or
dimensions all at the same time.
This sounds sort of what lucid dreaming is, or could be seen as. Just we
feel we have to be sleeping (in the physical) to believe it and allow it.
I don't take what anyone says as fact or "truth" on it's own, it has
to feel right to me and make sense LOL

[Sidney Lambe]

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.

I dream lucidly (come awake in my dreams) fairly often.

What I learn there tells me that the mis-named "course in miracles"
is mostly Untruth.

Post by Lee Flynn
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?

You aren't going to find anyone into ACIM with abilities like
that. They are too crippled by the internal conflicts caused
by their intuitions fighting the false teachings of ACIM.

But I'm sure you'll find someone into ACIM who _claims_ to be
a lucid dreamer. Just like they claim to have the "peace that
passeth all understanding" when, like all Christians, they are
_obviously_ miserable.

[One Mind Foundation]

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

YES LEE...that is purpose of ACIM, to AWAKEN and not be fooled by
form, to be in the world, and NOT of it, in every moment of now...is
the Lucidity, Clarity you speak of.. YES. .ITS HAPPENING FASTER AND
FASTER <3
IN APPRECIATION LEE <3
dov

[Sidney Lambe]

Post by One Mind Foundation

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

YES LEE...that is purpose of ACIM, to AWAKEN and not be fooled by
form, to be in the world, and NOT of it, in every moment of now.

That is simply a lie. The purpose of ACIM is to allow Christians
to pretend they aren't Christians.

It's for people addicted to Christianity who want to be a part
of the New Age Movement.

And one certainly doesn't need ACIM for the purpose of discovering
that most of our beings isn't expressed in this world. A basic
course in Raja Yoga or Zen Buddhism would be the best way to
learn this, by far.

Post by One Mind Foundation
..is the Lucidity, Clarity you speak of.. YES. .ITS HAPPENING
FASTER AND FASTER

Except for people who believe all those Christian Un-truths.

<3 IN APPRECIATION LEE <3 dov

If you actually apppreciated him, you would actually read his
article, which was about Lucid Dreaming.

But since your ACIM doesn't address this subject, then it
can't be valid, right?

Religious zealots all have tunnel vision.

[Carrie]

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

YES LEE...that is purpose of ACIM, to AWAKEN and not be fooled by
form, to be in the world, and NOT of it, in every moment of now...is
the Lucidity, Clarity you speak of.. YES. .ITS HAPPENING FASTER AND
FASTER <3
IN APPRECIATION LEE <3
dov

I think we are already Awakened. Jesus already did it. We just have to
REMEMBER this.

[Lee Flynn]

Hi dov, nice to see you drop a line..

Post by One Mind Foundation

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

YES LEE...that is purpose of ACIM, to AWAKEN and not be fooled by
form, to be in the world, and NOT of it, in every moment of now...is
the Lucidity, Clarity you speak of.. YES. .ITS HAPPENING FASTER AND
FASTER <3
IN APPRECIATION LEE <3
dov

Agreed on all counts. As explained in Lesson 184, 'form' is what
distracts my mind from 'content' when I break what could be
seen as unitary wholeness into discrete and seemingly separate
pieces and ascribe them with other, wholly false attributes. And
I'd have to say there is a groundswell of awakening that seems
to be growing and accelerating. Let's certainly hope so, eh?

~ Lee

[acimite]

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Hi Lee,

Hope all is well in your world.

If you remember we've touched on lucidity in the dream a few times
over the years. For awhile I found it helpful but the idea slowly
either progressed (or maybe regressed) into what seems a more
consistent idea for me. Or maybe I'm just using different words now.
Then the idea of recognizing the dreamlike nature of temporality was
key and realizing that within the dream it was possible to know you
are ultimately the dreamer and maybe even manipulate the dream
somewhat because of this realization.

Now the dream is more clearly defined for me as a "state of being"
that arose upon the thought of a will other than God's. At this level
cause and effect are one. Upon thinking and believing in another will
idea (cause) the dream, or a state of being had to also arise
simultaneously. Kind of like with forgetting comes remembering cannot
have one without the other. Or Father and Son, Father is cause but
the Son establishes causation, cause and effect are one.

The dream state or more precisely I now believe the dream is a -- real-
time -- state of being. This is probably arguable but the same thing
idea is in play in the statement "projection makes perception" it is a
literal meaning upon belief in projection, perception had to arise.
Projection is cause but perception establishes causation.

All that to get to lucidity. Lucidity imo is the recognition that
perception is purposefully a false filter that establishes
projection. So it is sort of like being lucid in a dream but maybe a
little more. It is the recognition that the realm of perception is
the dream and it is an effect of projection. We read that the ego
distorts perception so we'll believe in falsity or the dream. Course
forgiveness imo is at it's most basic disbelieving nearly all that
perception tries to convince us is true. So maybe that disbelieving
of most of perception could be equated to lucidity.

At some point this all has to come down to a -- state of being -- in a
singular expression. Time, space, matter all have to be ideas within
beingness. There cannot be something outside First Source (FS). All
has to be within FS Being. Within all (I know an oxymoron), there can
be expressions of being also but the expressions cannot preclude the
nature of FS. They can even be expressions that are dreamlike or
false but still unable to alter our true Will.

So to complete the circle, acceptance or even the willing (verb), the
idea that there can only be a "NOW" state of being,that is being
expressed in Truth that is an expression of how FS Willed me is
another way to say "acceptance of the atonement". I am still as God
created me is imo the ultimate lucid dream.

What or how it opens to each of us is pretty unique it seems so I know
the above might be gibberish to some yet mean something to someone
else. So no real investment or identification with it other than what
seems my own mind healing path.

Peace bro,
jon pratt

[Lee Flynn]

Hi jon! So good to see old friends, again..

Post by acimite

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Hi Lee,
Hope all is well in your world.
If you remember we've touched on lucidity in the dream a few times
over the years.

I well recall. They were great discussions. I wish I had stuck
with them longer, at the time.

Post by acimite
For awhile I found it helpful but the idea slowly
either progressed (or maybe regressed) into what seems a more
consistent idea for me. Or maybe I'm just using different words now.
Then the idea of recognizing the dreamlike nature of temporality was
key and realizing that within the dream it was possible to know you
are ultimately the dreamer and maybe even manipulate the dream
somewhat because of this realization.

Control of the dream is a common, and probably even necessary
element of the mid-lucid stage of what can later become high-
lucidity. Control of the dream elements persuades the mind that
no will alien to its own is imposing itself on the dream, and
anchors the experience of one's identity as dreamer -- outside
and prior to the dream -- rather than hapless dreambody. At the
high-lucid stage, that desire to control is overtaken by a trust
that the dream elements and circumstances are providing an
opportunity to meet ALL unfolding instants on their own terms,
with utmost attention and clarity of mind. With high lucidity,
all fear is gone, and the mind embraces all that appears with
love and delight. Even formerly nightmarish scenarios unravel
and resolve into insight as they are met with newfound
bemusement, curious inquiry and novel, creative response.

T-27.VII.13.5 God willed he waken gently and with joy, and gave
him means to waken without fear.

T-27.VII.14. Accept the dream He (Holy Spirit) gave instead of
yours. 2 It is not difficult to change a dream when once the
dreamer has been recognized. 3 Rest in the Holy Spirit, and
allow His gentle dreams to take the place of those you dreamed
in terror and in fear of death.

I can learn that when I take control, I am wresting it from none
other than Holy Spirit, and that I can better apply the control to
increasing my *quality of awareness* across each unfolding
moment of _whatever_ creative domain I awaken within. That's
the gift and process of fully awaking in love, within a dream.

Post by acimite
Now the dream is more clearly defined for me as a "state of being"
that arose upon the thought of a will other than God's. At this level
cause and effect are one. Upon thinking and believing in another will
idea (cause) the dream, or a state of being had to also arise
simultaneously. Kind of like with forgetting comes remembering cannot
have one without the other. Or Father and Son, Father is cause but
the Son establishes causation, cause and effect are one.
The dream state or more precisely I now believe the dream is a --
real- time -- state of being.

I feel the same way, jon.

Post by acimite
This is probably arguable but the
same thing idea is in play in the statement "projection makes
perception" it is a literal meaning upon belief in projection,
perception had to arise. Projection is cause but perception
establishes causation.

I get what you mean. That's pretty deep.

Post by acimite
All that to get to lucidity. Lucidity imo is the recognition that
perception is purposefully a false filter that establishes
projection.

Where perception appears to show a world separate from
the mind, yes.

Post by acimite
So it is sort of like being lucid in a dream but maybe a
little more. It is the recognition that the realm of perception is
the dream and it is an effect of projection.

Yes. And it can be projection in the negative sense, or in the
positive sense -- where it is seen as creative venue for love's
extension.

Post by acimite
We read that the ego
distorts perception so we'll believe in falsity or the dream. Course
forgiveness imo is at it's most basic disbelieving nearly all that
perception tries to convince us is true. So maybe that disbelieving
of most of perception could be equated to lucidity.

And for me, this disbelieving applies to negating that experience
of perceiving the world as 'outside' my mind -- or other than
my own dream. Course forgiveness speaks to me of opening
to a higher order of mediating my experience than the ego
would direct -- that order of awakening directed by Holy Spirit.

Post by acimite
At some point this all has to come down to a -- state of being -- in a
singular expression. Time, space, matter all have to be ideas within
beingness.

Yes.

Post by acimite
There cannot be something outside First Source (FS). All
has to be within FS Being.

Everything but the false world that arises from illusory attributes
that I impose on what I behold as 'time, space and matter'.

Post by acimite
Within all (I know an oxymoron), there can
be expressions of being also but the expressions cannot preclude the
nature of FS. They can even be expressions that are dreamlike or
false but still unable to alter our true Will.

I'm with ya.

Post by acimite
So to complete the circle, acceptance or even the willing (verb), the
idea that there can only be a "NOW" state of being,that is being
expressed in Truth that is an expression of how FS Willed me is
another way to say "acceptance of the atonement". I am still as God
created me is imo the ultimate lucid dream.

Yes! And for me, all that I behold in any domain of experience is
continuous with, and of the same nature, as the attributes given
me in my creation -- when seen with lucid clarity.

Post by acimite
What or how it opens to each of us is pretty unique it seems so I know
the above might be gibberish to some yet mean something to someone
else.

It's not at all gibberish to me, my friend. But then most of what
I write probably appears like nonsense to most..

Post by acimite
So no real investment or identification with it other than what
seems my own mind healing path.

I see it as some real insight, and I'm thrilled at your discoveries,
jon. You've expressed them well. Thanks for offering them up.
Let me know where I may have misunderstood, won't you?

~ Lee

Post by acimite
Peace bro,
jon pratt

[Sidney Lambe]

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi jon! So good to see old friends, again..

Post by acimite

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Hi Lee,
Hope all is well in your world.
If you remember we've touched on lucidity in the dream a few times
over the years.

I well recall. They were great discussions. I wish I had stuck
with them longer, at the time.

Post by acimite
For awhile I found it helpful but the idea slowly
either progressed (or maybe regressed) into what seems a more
consistent idea for me. Or maybe I'm just using different words now.
Then the idea of recognizing the dreamlike nature of temporality was
key and realizing that within the dream it was possible to know you
are ultimately the dreamer and maybe even manipulate the dream
somewhat because of this realization.

Control of the dream is a common, and probably even necessary
element of the mid-lucid stage of what can later become high-
lucidity. Control of the dream elements persuades the mind that
no will alien to its own is imposing itself on the dream, and
anchors the experience of one's identity as dreamer -- outside
and prior to the dream -- rather than hapless dreambody. At the
high-lucid stage, that desire to control is overtaken by a trust
that the dream elements and circumstances are providing an
opportunity to meet ALL unfolding instants on their own terms,
with utmost attention and clarity of mind. With high lucidity,
all fear is gone, and the mind embraces all that appears with
love and delight. Even formerly nightmarish scenarios unravel
and resolve into insight as they are met with newfound
bemusement, curious inquiry and novel, creative response.
T-27.VII.13.5 God willed he waken gently and with joy, and gave
him means to waken without fear.
T-27.VII.14. Accept the dream He (Holy Spirit) gave instead of
yours. 2 It is not difficult to change a dream when once the
dreamer has been recognized. 3 Rest in the Holy Spirit, and
allow His gentle dreams to take the place of those you dreamed
in terror and in fear of death.
I can learn that when I take control, I am wresting it from none
other than Holy Spirit, and that I can better apply the control to
increasing my *quality of awareness* across each unfolding
moment of _whatever_ creative domain I awaken within. That's
the gift and process of fully awaking in love, within a dream.

Post by acimite
Now the dream is more clearly defined for me as a "state of being"
that arose upon the thought of a will other than God's. At this level
cause and effect are one. Upon thinking and believing in another will
idea (cause) the dream, or a state of being had to also arise
simultaneously. Kind of like with forgetting comes remembering cannot
have one without the other. Or Father and Son, Father is cause but
the Son establishes causation, cause and effect are one.
The dream state or more precisely I now believe the dream is a --
real- time -- state of being.

I feel the same way, jon.

Post by acimite
This is probably arguable but the
same thing idea is in play in the statement "projection makes
perception" it is a literal meaning upon belief in projection,
perception had to arise. Projection is cause but perception
establishes causation.

I get what you mean. That's pretty deep.

Post by acimite
All that to get to lucidity. Lucidity imo is the recognition that
perception is purposefully a false filter that establishes
projection.

Where perception appears to show a world separate from
the mind, yes.

Post by acimite
So it is sort of like being lucid in a dream but maybe a
little more. It is the recognition that the realm of perception is
the dream and it is an effect of projection.

Yes. And it can be projection in the negative sense, or in the
positive sense -- where it is seen as creative venue for love's
extension.

Post by acimite
We read that the ego
distorts perception so we'll believe in falsity or the dream. Course
forgiveness imo is at it's most basic disbelieving nearly all that
perception tries to convince us is true. So maybe that disbelieving
of most of perception could be equated to lucidity.

And for me, this disbelieving applies to negating that experience
of perceiving the world as 'outside' my mind -- or other than
my own dream. Course forgiveness speaks to me of opening
to a higher order of mediating my experience than the ego
would direct -- that order of awakening directed by Holy Spirit.

Post by acimite
At some point this all has to come down to a -- state of being -- in a
singular expression. Time, space, matter all have to be ideas within
beingness.

Yes.

Post by acimite
There cannot be something outside First Source (FS). All
has to be within FS Being.

Everything but the false world that arises from illusory attributes
that I impose on what I behold as 'time, space and matter'.

Post by acimite
Within all (I know an oxymoron), there can
be expressions of being also but the expressions cannot preclude the
nature of FS. They can even be expressions that are dreamlike or
false but still unable to alter our true Will.

I'm with ya.

Post by acimite
So to complete the circle, acceptance or even the willing (verb), the
idea that there can only be a "NOW" state of being,that is being
expressed in Truth that is an expression of how FS Willed me is
another way to say "acceptance of the atonement". I am still as God
created me is imo the ultimate lucid dream.

Yes! And for me, all that I behold in any domain of experience is
continuous with, and of the same nature, as the attributes given
me in my creation -- when seen with lucid clarity.

Post by acimite
What or how it opens to each of us is pretty unique it seems so I know
the above might be gibberish to some yet mean something to someone
else.

It's not at all gibberish to me, my friend. But then most of what
I write probably appears like nonsense to most..

Post by acimite
So no real investment or identification with it other than what
seems my own mind healing path.

I see it as some real insight, and I'm thrilled at your discoveries,
jon. You've expressed them well. Thanks for offering them up.
Let me know where I may have misunderstood, won't you?
~ Lee

Post by acimite
Peace bro,
jon pratt

I'll bet you this religious facist is talking to his own sock
puppets here. Who else would waste their time reading that
long-winded garbage?

Not Carrie, of course. She's one of their earlier victims.

The Truth is simple. Superstitious nonsense is not. It can't be,
because everyone's intuitions are screaming at them that it is
garbage and this has to be overwhelmed with elaborate logical
structures.

ACIM is the most deceitful document I've ever encountered. It
says one thing in your face and other things behind your back.
So it is bound to produce deceitful disciples.

[toonkunst radio lelystad]

Post by Sidney Lambe

Hi jon!  So good to see old friends, again..

Post by acimite

Post by Lee Flynn
Hi all,
I'm writing this to get a sense of how many of you have found
the concept or practice of lucid dreaming helpful to your
understanding of the Course.
Does anyone know of a writer or teacher of the Course whose
body of work references lucidity as a helpful concept in
approaching the Course's central metaphor of
sleeping/dreaming/waking ?
~ Lee

Hi Lee,
Hope all is well in your world.
If you remember we've touched on lucidity in the dream a few times
over the years.

I well recall. They were great discussions. I wish I had stuck
with them longer, at the time.

Post by acimite
For awhile I found it helpful but the idea slowly
either progressed (or maybe regressed) into what seems a more
consistent idea for me.  Or maybe I'm just using different words now.
Then the idea of recognizing the dreamlike nature of temporality was
key and realizing that within the dream it was possible to know you
are ultimately the dreamer and maybe even manipulate the dream
somewhat because of this realization.

Control of the dream is a common, and probably even necessary
element of the mid-lucid stage of what can later become high-
lucidity. Control of the dream elements persuades the mind that
no will alien to its own is imposing itself on the dream, and
anchors the experience of one's identity as dreamer -- outside
and prior to the dream -- rather than hapless dreambody. At the
high-lucid stage, that desire to control is overtaken by a trust
that the dream elements and circumstances are providing an
opportunity to meet ALL unfolding instants on their own terms,
with utmost attention and clarity of mind. With high lucidity,
all fear is gone, and the mind embraces all that appears with
love and delight. Even formerly nightmarish scenarios unravel
and resolve into insight as they are met with newfound
bemusement, curious inquiry and novel, creative response.
  T-27.VII.13.5 God willed he waken gently and with joy, and gave
  him means to waken without fear.
  T-27.VII.14. Accept the dream He (Holy Spirit) gave instead of
  yours. 2 It is not difficult to change a dream when once the
  dreamer has been recognized. 3 Rest in the Holy Spirit, and
  allow His gentle dreams to take the place of those you dreamed
  in terror and in fear of death.
I can learn that when I take control, I am wresting it from none
other than Holy Spirit, and that I can better apply the control to
increasing my *quality of awareness* across each unfolding
moment of _whatever_ creative domain I awaken within. That's
the gift and process of fully awaking in love, within a dream.

Post by acimite
Now the dream is more clearly defined for me as a "state of being"
that arose upon the thought of a will other than God's.  At this level
cause and effect are one.  Upon thinking and believing in another will
idea (cause) the dream, or a state of being had to also arise
simultaneously.  Kind of like with forgetting comes remembering cannot
have one without the other.  Or Father and Son, Father is cause but
the Son establishes causation, cause and effect are one.
The dream state or more precisely I now believe the dream is a --
real- time -- state of being.

I feel the same way, jon.

Post by acimite
This is probably arguable but the
same thing idea is in play in the statement "projection makes
perception" it is a literal meaning upon belief in projection,
perception had to arise. Projection is cause but perception
establishes causation.

I get what you mean. That's pretty deep.

Post by acimite
All that to get to lucidity.  Lucidity imo is the recognition that
perception is purposefully a false filter that establishes
projection.

Where perception appears to show a world separate from
the mind, yes.

Post by acimite
So it is sort of like being lucid in a dream but maybe a
little more.  It is the recognition that the realm of perception is
the dream and it is an effect of projection.

Yes. And it can be projection in the negative sense, or in the
positive sense -- where it is seen as creative venue for love's
extension.

Post by acimite
We read that the ego
distorts perception so we'll believe in falsity or the dream.  Course
forgiveness imo is at it's most basic disbelieving nearly all that
perception tries to convince us is true.  So maybe that disbelieving
of most of perception could be equated to lucidity.

And for me, this disbelieving applies to negating that experience
of perceiving the world as 'outside' my mind -- or other than
my own dream. Course forgiveness speaks to me of opening
to a higher order of mediating my experience than the ego
would direct -- that order of awakening directed by Holy Spirit.

Post by acimite
At some point this all has to come down to a -- state of being -- in a
singular expression.  Time, space, matter all have to be ideas within
beingness.

Yes.

Post by acimite
There cannot be something outside First Source (FS).  All
has to be within FS Being.

Everything but the false world that arises from illusory attributes
that I impose on what I behold as 'time, space and matter'.

Post by acimite
Within all (I know an oxymoron), there can
be expressions of being also but the expressions cannot preclude the
nature of FS.  They can even be expressions that are dreamlike or
false but still unable to alter our true Will.

I'm with ya.

Post by acimite
So to complete the circle, acceptance or even the willing (verb), the
idea that there can only be a "NOW" state of being,that is being
expressed in Truth that is an expression of how FS Willed me is
another way to say "acceptance of the atonement".  I am still as God
created me is imo the ultimate lucid dream.

Yes! And for me, all that I behold in any domain of experience is
continuous with, and of the same nature, as the attributes given
me in my creation -- when seen with lucid clarity.

Post by acimite
What or how it opens to each of us is pretty unique it seems so I know
the above might be gibberish to some yet mean something to someone
else.

It's not at all gibberish to me, my friend. But then most of what
I write probably appears like nonsense to most..

Post by acimite
So no real investment or identification with it other than what
seems my own mind healing path.

I see it as some real insight, and I'm thrilled at your discoveries,
jon. You've expressed them well. Thanks for offering them up.
Let me know where I may have misunderstood, won't you?
~ Lee

Post by acimite
Peace bro,
jon pratt

I'll bet you this religious facist is talking to his own sock
puppets here. Who else would waste their time reading that
long-winded garbage?
Not Carrie, of course. She's one of their earlier victims.
The Truth is simple. Superstitious nonsense is not. It can't be,
because everyone's intuitions are screaming at them that it is
garbage and this has to be overwhelmed with elaborate logical
structures.
ACIM is the most deceitful document I've ever encountered. It
says one thing in your face and other things behind your back.
So it is bound to produce deceitful disciples.
--
Sidney Lambe / Evergreen - usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com
Solitaire Wiccan Priest - Spellsinger Wiccahttp://tinyurl.com/63zc9bh-http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
All will be well. All manner of things will be well.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hey Sidney,

nice meeting you. I am a co-founder of this list.
Let me ask you something. When was the last time
Seth or your inner Authority, whatever you call it,
has sent you into a Synagoge to tell the congregation
that the Talmud really sucks? Or sent you into a
Mosquee to tell the congregation they should
abandon the Quran?

With all respect for your POV, I don't think you
are doing yoursef a great service by engaging
in spiritual bigotry and intolerance so militantly.
Neither does it shed a good light on Seth. He
would by no means encourage such behavior.

So, what's your mission here? How do you
conclude totalitarians or fascists are present
here? What negative encounter here or elseweher
made you so passionately argue against our
"Holy Scripture"?

Again, nice to meet you,

maz~

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, toonkunst radio lelystad

On May 31, 4:07=A0pm, Sidney Lambe

[delete]

Hey Sidney,
nice meeting you. I am a co-founder of this list.

So what? These are the first time I've seen your posts
in the years I've been on the Usenet.

Let me ask you something. When was the last time Seth or your
inner Authority, whatever you call it, has sent you into a
Synagoge to tell the congregation that the Talmud really sucks?
Or sent you into a Mosquee to tell the congregation they should
abandon the Quran?

You are comparing a Usenet group to a place of worship?

That's absure.

If you've got a problem with free speech, you are in the
wrong place.


[delete]

[toonkunst radio lelystad]

Post by Sidney Lambe
If you've got a problem with free speech, you are in the
wrong place.

No problem here. Just curious why a serious proponent
of the Seth material wants to make such a dumb a**
out of himself day in day out. too funny. FYI, here's the
purpose of this list in a nutshell. take care, maz



CHARTER: talk.religion.course-miracle

" talk.religion.course-miracle will be a newsgroup
" for the open discussion of A Course in Miracles,
" its principles, and the practical application of
" its teachings. Acceptable discussions will include
" how A Course in Miracles affects our lives, our
" experiences in practicing the teachings,
" discussions and debates concerning our
" understanding of its teachings, personal insights
" in the form of poetry and essays, and other forms
" of relating to the teachings of A Course in
" Miracles.
"
" This newsgroup will serve as a world-wide
" networking vehicle for A Course in Miracles and
" therefore acceptable posts will include notices of
" ACIM related events, notices of media coverage of
" A Course in Miracles, notices of publications
" related to A Course in Miracles, and any other
" news items concerning A Course in Miracles.
"
" Due to the nature of the teachings of A Course in
" Miracles, it is not necessary to discourage any
" flames in discussions about ACIM, but discussions
" unrelated to A Course in Miracles shall be
" discouraged.
END CHARTER.

[Sidney Lambe]

Post by toonkunst radio lelystad

Post by Sidney Lambe
If you've got a problem with free speech, you are in the
wrong place.

No problem here. Just curious why a serious proponent
of the Seth material wants to make such a dumb a**
out of himself day in day out. too funny. FYI, here's the
purpose of this list in a nutshell. take care, maz

Oh look. He got in a childish insult. Aren't I just devastated.

And as usual, he's wrong. I'm a student of Truth, wherever it
may be found. The Seth Material (some 30+ volumes) says it
in simple, everyday plain English.

And it isn't polluted with Christian superstitions like
the mis-named "Course in Miracles.

Post by toonkunst radio lelystad
CHARTER: talk.religion.course-miracle
" talk.religion.course-miracle will be a newsgroup
" for the open discussion of A Course in Miracles,

And that includes criticism.

Even though you obviously don't want to hear it and are
trying in your feeble way to drive me away.

Post by toonkunst radio lelystad
its principles, and the practical application of " its
teachings. Acceptable discussions will include " how A Course
in Miracles affects our lives, our " experiences in practicing
the teachings, " discussions and debates concerning our "
understanding of its teachings, personal insights " in the
form of poetry and essays, and other forms " of relating to
the teachings of A Course in " Miracles. " " This newsgroup
will serve as a world-wide " networking vehicle for A Course
in Miracles and "
therefore acceptable posts will include

Whatever I choose to post is acceptable to anyone who matters.

Post by toonkunst radio lelystad
notices of " ACIM related events, notices of media coverage of
" A Course in Miracles, notices of publications " related to
A Course in Miracles, and any other " news items concerning A
Course in Miracles. " " Due to the nature of the teachings of A
Course in " Miracles,
it is not necessary to discourage any "
flames in discussions about ACIM,

You couldn't stop my criticisms if your life depended on it.

Even though you supposedly know how to pull off miracles.

Oh. You can't? After all these years? That means that the very
name of a Course in Miracles is a lie. No surprise there. It is
the most deceitful document I have ever encountered.

Post by toonkunst radio lelystad
but discussions " unrelated to A Course in Miracles shall be "
discouraged. END CHARTER.

Discourage anything you want. I don't care.

I do what I want and you live with it.


[delete]

[toonkunst radio lelystad]

Post by Sidney Lambe
I'm a student of Truth, wherever it

may be found.<<

ROTFLMBO! That must be in the few minutes
when you don't post flames on a board where
no-one reads your drivel. Too funny.

<snip bs>

yaaaaaaawn.

Good Bye, blessed be, walk in joy!

plonk! LOL!

:-)

[David Thomson]

Hi Lee,

I have been lucid dreaming since age 7. I wouldn't say it helps to practice the Course as that is something I do in waking hours. The best use for lucid dreaming that I have found is to redo dreams that get out of control.

While I'm dreaming, I am aware that I am dreaming. I am also aware that I can do anything I can think of. I can fly, bring people who die back to life, move things with my mind, disapparate to a different location, go back in time to relive an event, stand on airplane wings while in flight, and dissolve any fear.

I have learned that weird dreams are caused by eating the wrong foods. Mostly the wrong foods are trans fats and hydrogenated oils. They can still be overcome by lucid dreaming, but it really helps to eliminate fried foods and processed oils from the diet. Taking enzymes, such as Serracor, helps a lot, too.

Be careful with how seriously you take the Course. We live in two worlds, the physical world seen by the ego and the spiritual world seen from the perspective of a still mind. The Course is mostly metaphor. This is important. We do not need to breath, eat, drink water, or take a bath in order to enter a holy instant, but we are still living in the physical world and need to do these things and more.

Yes, it is magic to take vitamins, medications, do exercises, take a bath, have sex, etc. But the physical world is a world that depends on magic. If we are going to stay here to live out our normal life span, then we need to do these things skilfully.

Lucid dreaming is a special tool of magic. Not many people have this ability, nor even the desire to do it. The best use for lucid dreaming is to eliminate fear from the subconscious mind. I refuse to wake up if I have a bad dream, but instead choose to remake the dream until it has a positive feeling and a positive outcome.

The belief in magic is not incompatible with practicing the Course. It is an illusion compared to the spiritual world just as the spiritual world is an illusion to the physical world. We can still cross back and forth between the two worlds with ease just as we can speak in two different languages.

The key is to let go of fear and not let it fester in the mind. Whatever tools or magic you use to let go of fear are valid if they work for you.

Dave

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, David Thomson

Post by acimite
Hi Lee,
I have been lucid dreaming since age 7. I wouldn't say it helps
to practic= e the Course as that is something I do in waking
hours.

The nature of basic reality is the same whether one is in
the dream universe or the physical universe.

The fact that ACIM doesn't teach this is just another example
of what a pathetic document it is.

"The Nature of Personal Reality" by Jane Roberts is far
superior.

ACIM is just Fuandamental Christianity in a New-Age disguise.

[delete]

These people who have suddenly made an appearance all belong
to the same person, an agent of the facist "One-Mind" cult
derived from the mis-named ACIM.

They are very much like the Scientologists...

[Carrie]

"David Thomson" <***@volantis.org> wrote in message news:fa05f289-7919-44a3-98bf-***@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...
Hi Lee,

I have been lucid dreaming since age 7. I wouldn't say it helps to practice
the Course as that is something I do in waking hours. The best use for
lucid dreaming that I have found is to redo dreams that get out of control.

While I'm dreaming, I am aware that I am dreaming. I am also aware that I
can do anything I can think of. I can fly, bring people who die back to
life, move things with my mind, disapparate to a different location, go back
in time to relive an event, stand on airplane wings while in flight, and
dissolve any fear.

I have learned that weird dreams are caused by eating the wrong foods.
Mostly the wrong foods are trans fats and hydrogenated oils. They can still
be overcome by lucid dreaming, but it really helps to eliminate fried foods
and processed oils from the diet. Taking enzymes, such as Serracor, helps a
lot, too.

Be careful with how seriously you take the Course. We live in two worlds,
the physical world seen by the ego and the spiritual world seen from the
perspective of a still mind. The Course is mostly metaphor. This is
important. We do not need to breath, eat, drink water, or take a bath in
order to enter a holy instant, but we are still living in the physical world
and need to do these things and more.

Yes, it is magic to take vitamins, medications, do exercises, take a bath,
have sex, etc. But the physical world is a world that depends on magic. If
we are going to stay here to live out our normal life span, then we need to
do these things skilfully.

Lucid dreaming is a special tool of magic. Not many people have this
ability, nor even the desire to do it. The best use for lucid dreaming is
to eliminate fear from the subconscious mind. I refuse to wake up if I have
a bad dream, but instead choose to remake the dream until it has a positive
feeling and a positive outcome.

The belief in magic is not incompatible with practicing the Course. It is
an illusion compared to the spiritual world just as the spiritual world is
an illusion to the physical world. We can still cross back and forth
between the two worlds with ease just as we can speak in two different
languages.

The key is to let go of fear and not let it fester in the mind. Whatever
tools or magic you use to let go of fear are valid if they work for you.

Dave

How do you know what is 'real" and what is the dream? Maybe what you
believe is the dream, you can fly, rise the dead, move things, etc is realy
what is REAL and what you think of as not dreaming is the illusion?
Jesus is quoted as saying we can do anything. "All things are possible". I
don't know about flying, but Jesus did things you say you do in dreams".
Sort of like that saying (forget now who said it) "am I a man dreaming I
am a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming I am a man?"
I once had a dream, one of those early morning half awake/asleep ones, of
being a butterfly, from that perspective (I figured it out after) coming out
of the cocoon, wings kind of sticky and wet, trying to move them and get
them dry and moving.
But then another time I had a dream (same way) where I was on the side of
the road in the hot sun, the road I was on was how I remembered it from 20
or so years earlier. The buildings on it, and age of the cars going by. As I
woke up, I realized I was a gum wrapper laying on the hot pavement, on the
side of the road (maybe around 1956 or so). But I felt the heat of the
sun, the hot pavement and smells, and saw everything from a ground level.
Haven't had this happen too much (that I remmebered) is this what you mean
by lucid dreaming? I've explained it (to myself) ad the idea we are all one
and the energy/consiousness flows through all. I'm just currently (most of
the time) focused on being the person I think I am.

[Lee Flynn]

Post by acimite
Hi Lee,
I have been lucid dreaming since age 7. I wouldn't say it helps to
practice the Course as that is something I do in waking hours. The
best use for lucid dreaming that I have found is to redo dreams that
get out of control.
While I'm dreaming, I am aware that I am dreaming.

"Awareness of dreaming is the real function of God's teachers." ; )

Post by acimite
I am also aware
that I can do anything I can think of. I can fly, bring people who
die back to life, move things with my mind, disapparate to a
different location, go back in time to relive an event, stand on
airplane wings while in flight, and dissolve any fear.

Fun, eh!

Post by acimite
I have learned that weird dreams are caused by eating the wrong
foods. Mostly the wrong foods are trans fats and hydrogenated oils.
They can still be overcome by lucid dreaming, but it really helps to
eliminate fried foods and processed oils from the diet. Taking
enzymes, such as Serracor, helps a lot, too.

Thanks.

Post by acimite
Be careful with how seriously you take the Course. We live in two
worlds, the physical world seen by the ego and the spiritual world
seen from the perspective of a still mind. The Course is mostly
metaphor.

That's pretty strong. I would say that it accurately describes the world
in its pristine condition -- as experienced with utmost clarity -- and
that
our distortions of thought make for a worldly experience and consensus
'reality' wholly out of accord with its authentic nature.

Post by acimite
This is important. We do not need to breath, eat, drink
water, or take a bath in order to enter a holy instant, but we are
still living in the physical world and need to do these things and
more.
Yes, it is magic to take vitamins, medications, do exercises, take a
bath, have sex, etc. But the physical world is a world that depends
on magic. If we are going to stay here to live out our normal life
span, then we need to do these things skilfully.

I entirely agree.

Post by acimite
Lucid dreaming is a special tool of magic. Not many people have this
ability, nor even the desire to do it. The best use for lucid
dreaming is to eliminate fear from the subconscious mind.

Yes. And then as I'm sure you've gathered from other of my
recent messages, there is a higher order of lucid dreaming
that provides a template by which to understand the Course's
desire that we be lucidly awakened by Holy Spirit *within*
this Creation-dream, by awaking *from* the slumbering dream
of fear. Unfamiliarity with the reality and benefits of awaking
within a dream can leave a student with the idea that awaking
as used in the Course means departing this domain, altogether.

Post by acimite
I refuse
to wake up if I have a bad dream, but instead choose to remake the
dream until it has a positive feeling and a positive outcome.
The belief in magic is not incompatible with practicing the Course.
It is an illusion compared to the spiritual world just as the
spiritual world is an illusion to the physical world. We can still
cross back and forth between the two worlds with ease just as we can
speak in two different languages.

Right. And there are several passages that speak of 're-entering'
the consensus world, after holy instants of discovery, and using
what we have learned to *gradually* loosen my faith in "the
world's laws", and progressively release the world from my
illusions about it's nature.

Post by acimite
The key is to let go of fear and not let it fester in the mind.
Whatever tools or magic you use to let go of fear are valid if they
work for you.

I agree that freedom from fear is key, and that magic solutions
today are not incompatible with the Course curriculum, so long
as I'm willing to be directed along the path to insight, healing
and atonement.

Glad that I caught you on one of your infrequent visits, Dave.

~ Lee

Post by acimite
Dave

[Sidney Lambe]

Post by Lee Flynn

Post by acimite
Hi Lee,
I have been lucid dreaming since age 7. I wouldn't say it helps to
practice the Course as that is something I do in waking hours. The
best use for lucid dreaming that I have found is to redo dreams that
get out of control.
While I'm dreaming, I am aware that I am dreaming.

"Awareness of dreaming is the real function of God's teachers." ; )

So you think you are "God's teacher".

I think I'll wait until _God_ tells me you are Its teacher
before I believe you.

I hope this is okay.

Talk is, after all, incredibly cheap....

[delete]

I have the feeling that if he was really "God's teacher"
that I wouldn'tbe able to ignore most of what he posts with
impunity....Just a hunch...

[David Thomson]

Hi Carrie,

Lucid dreaming is the ability to exert one's will while dreaming. Instead of being the victim of the dream, the dreamer is the hero.

Although there is a flow of feelings and ideas, if the content of the flow becomes negative, the lucid dreamer can become aware of the negativity and then intentionally change the dream such that it becomes a positive dream.

The ability is developed by determining what you want to dream when you are going to sleep. It takes several months to form the habit. It is important to watch what you eat and drink in the hours before going to bed.

The best use of lucid dreaming is when you are experiencing nightmares. One defining moment for me in becoming a lucid dreamer in my childhood was when I would be chased by hideous monsters in my dreams. I would wake up crying and sweating profusely. One night, I decided I was going to confront whatever it was that was chasing me. As usual, in my dream, I was being chased by a ferocious tiger. The faster I wanted to run, the slower I could move. The tiger was just a quarter inch behind me and I could only run one foot per hour.

Then it occurred to me that I had resolved to face the monster. So I resolved myself to being killed by facing the beast. As I turned around to face it, I saw my best friend. This was a profound moment in my life and I realized for the first time that dreams were connected to our daily life.

For weeks before the dream two older and bigger kids were following me from school and taunting me. They were talking about beating me up. I didn't realize how much that bothered me until I confronted the beast in my dream. The next day, as I was walking home from school, the two boys started in on me again. This time, having had the dream, I turned around and dropped my books and said, "I'm not going to take this anymore. Even if I have to die trying, I'm going knock the crap out of you guys."

They turned white and stopped in their tracks. Then one of them made a nervous chuckle and said not to worry, they were just kidding. We all ended up being friends after that.

It was then that I realized how powerful dreams really are. Ever since, I have investigated and fully participated in my dreams. I discovered that I can have amazing adventures, solve any issue, and even work out physics problems in my sleep.

I have even had prophetic dreams. Once I dreamed that I was driving down the road and ran out of gas. In my dream I remembered that I had a dream the previous night about running out of gas and thought to put a spare can of gas in the trunk. I opened the trunk and there was the gas. I poured it into the car and drove away. When I awoke that morning I thought, "I better put a can of gas in the car just in case." Later that day, I was driving along that exact same location in my dream when I dreamed the car ran out of gas. I remembered that I had a dream about running out of gas and had put a spare can in the trunk. I opened the trunk, and poured the gas into the car's tank and drove away satisfied and amazed by the power of dreams.

The gum wrapper dream you mentioned is interesting. If you were able to exert your will in that dream it would be a lucid dream. If you were carried away by the events of the dream and had no control, it would not be a lucid dream although it sounds like an insightful dream. The key to lucid dreaming is the ability to exert your will and make things happen as you want them to.

Dave

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, David Thomson

Post by David Thomson
Hi Carrie,
Lucid dreaming is the ability to exert one's will while
dreaming. Instead = of being the victim of the dream, the
dreamer is the hero. =20
Although there is a flow of feelings and ideas, if the content
of the flow = becomes negative, the lucid dreamer can become
aware of the negativity and = then intentionally change the
dream such that it becomes a positive dream. = =20
The ability is developed by determining what you want to dream
when you are= going to sleep. It takes several months to form
the habit. It is importa= nt to watch what you eat and drink in
the hours before going to bed. =20
The best use of lucid dreaming is when you are experiencing
nightmares. On= e defining moment for me in becoming a lucid
dreamer in my childhood was wh= en I would be chased by hideous
monsters in my dreams. I would wake up cry= ing and sweating
profusely. One night, I decided I was going to confront w=
hatever it was that was chasing me. As usual, in my dream, I
was being cha= sed by a ferocious tiger. The faster I wanted to
run, the slower I could m= ove. The tiger was just a quarter
inch behind me and I could only run one = foot per hour. =20
Then it occurred to me that I had resolved to face the monster.
So I resol= ved myself to being killed by facing the beast. As
I turned around to face= it, I saw my best friend. This was a
profound moment in my life and I rea= lized for the first time
that dreams were connected to our daily life.
For weeks before the dream two older and bigger kids were
following me from= school and taunting me. They were talking
about beating me up. I didn't = realize how much that bothered
me until I confronted the beast in my dream.= The next day,
as I was walking home from school, the two boys started in =
on me again. This time, having had the dream, I turned around
and dropped = my books and said, "I'm not going to take this
anymore. Even if I have to = die trying, I'm going knock the
crap out of you guys." =20
They turned white and stopped in their tracks. Then one of them
made a ner= vous chuckle and said not to worry, they were just
kidding. We all ended u= p being friends after that.
It was then that I realized how powerful dreams really are.
Ever since, I = have investigated and fully participated in my
dreams. I discovered that I= can have amazing adventures, solve
any issue, and even work out physics pr= oblems in my sleep.
=20
I have even had prophetic dreams. Once I dreamed that I was
driving down t= he road and ran out of gas. In my dream I
remembered that I had a dream th= e previous night about
running out of gas and thought to put a spare can of= gas in
the trunk. I opened the trunk and there was the gas. I poured
it = into the car and drove away. When I awoke that morning
I thought, "I bette= r put a can of gas in the car just in
case." Later that day, I was driving= along that exact same
location in my dream when I dreamed the car ran out = of gas. I
remembered that I had a dream about running out of gas and had
p= ut a spare can in the trunk. I opened the trunk, and poured
the gas into t= he car's tank and drove away satisfied and
amazed by the power of dreams.
The gum wrapper dream you mentioned is interesting. If you were
able to ex= ert your will in that dream it would be a lucid
dream. If you were carried= away by the events of the dream and
had no control, it would not be a luci= d dream although it
sounds like an insightful dream. The key to lucid drea= ming is
the ability to exert your will and make things happen as you
want t= hem to.
Dave

Pollyanna strikes again.

You can't just mindlessly change the negative into the positive .
The negative condition or dream exists for a reason or reasons .

If you don't discover and face the reason, the challenge will
just manifest again as another symptom.

I figure the above is mostly bullshit. This is because I have
read the mis-named "course in miracles" three times...

http://courseinmiracles.com/urtext/

...and know that the ideas pushed therein most forcefully, many
of which are in the sub-text and denied in the overt text, are
false and destructive and would keep anyone who actually believed
them from developing anything like the above ability.

I think he just did some googling and is playing the role in
order to convince people that he's a genuinely superior being
that they should look to for guidance and favors.

The ACIM world is full of wannabee gurus/priests. And they have
to learn to lie to themselves in order to take that document
seriously. Once you can lie to yourself, it's very easy to lie to
others.

The real course in miracles is called "The Nature of Personal Reality"
by Jane Roberts.

[Carrie]

"David Thomson" <***@volantis.org> wrote in message news:1bb1ce63-884f-49da-9523-***@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...
Hi Carrie,

Lucid dreaming is the ability to exert one's will while dreaming. Instead
of being the victim of the dream, the dreamer is the hero.

Although there is a flow of feelings and ideas, if the content of the flow
becomes negative, the lucid dreamer can become aware of the negativity and
then intentionally change the dream such that it becomes a positive dream.

The ability is developed by determining what you want to dream when you are
going to sleep. It takes several months to form the habit. It is important
to watch what you eat and drink in the hours before going to bed.

The best use of lucid dreaming is when you are experiencing nightmares. One
defining moment for me in becoming a lucid dreamer in my childhood was when
I would be chased by hideous monsters in my dreams. I would wake up crying
and sweating profusely. One night, I decided I was going to confront
whatever it was that was chasing me. As usual, in my dream, I was being
chased by a ferocious tiger. The faster I wanted to run, the slower I could
move. The tiger was just a quarter inch behind me and I could only run one
foot per hour.

Then it occurred to me that I had resolved to face the monster. So I
resolved myself to being killed by facing the beast. As I turned around to
face it, I saw my best friend. This was a profound moment in my life and I
realized for the first time that dreams were connected to our daily life.

For weeks before the dream two older and bigger kids were following me from
school and taunting me. They were talking about beating me up. I didn't
realize how much that bothered me until I confronted the beast in my dream.
The next day, as I was walking home from school, the two boys started in on
me again. This time, having had the dream, I turned around and dropped my
books and said, "I'm not going to take this anymore. Even if I have to die
trying, I'm going knock the crap out of you guys."

They turned white and stopped in their tracks. Then one of them made a
nervous chuckle and said not to worry, they were just kidding. We all ended
up being friends after that.

It was then that I realized how powerful dreams really are. Ever since, I
have investigated and fully participated in my dreams. I discovered that I
can have amazing adventures, solve any issue, and even work out physics
problems in my sleep.

I have even had prophetic dreams. Once I dreamed that I was driving down
the road and ran out of gas. In my dream I remembered that I had a dream
the previous night about running out of gas and thought to put a spare can
of gas in the trunk. I opened the trunk and there was the gas. I poured it
into the car and drove away. When I awoke that morning I thought, "I better
put a can of gas in the car just in case." Later that day, I was driving
along that exact same location in my dream when I dreamed the car ran out of
gas. I remembered that I had a dream about running out of gas and had put a
spare can in the trunk. I opened the trunk, and poured the gas into the
car's tank and drove away satisfied and amazed by the power of dreams.

The gum wrapper dream you mentioned is interesting. If you were able to
exert your will in that dream it would be a lucid dream. If you were
carried away by the events of the dream and had no control, it would not be
a lucid dream although it sounds like an insightful dream. The key to lucid
dreaming is the ability to exert your will and make things happen as you
want them to.

Dave

What is the point of it? Entertainment? The course says it's all a
dream/illusion anyway (even death) And the idea of exerting your will and
making things happen as you want them to (while sleep dreaming) wouldn't it
make more sense to do this, using "Law of Attraction" and aligning,
visualizing, etc. in "awake" life? I would think sleeping is to rest, and
"re-energize". As to the dream about running out of gas, and putting the
gas in the trunk, maybe you CREATED running out of gas, but the belief in
it, based on the dream?
I guess I like the idea of going to sleep and resting and doing my
dreaming in a creative way, when I'm not in bed LOL

[Kaydon]

ps.com... Hi Carrie,

Post by David Thomson
Lucid dreaming is

What is the point of it?

Evryone find their own use. Is really good for manifestation though <3

xoxoxoo

[Carrie]

Post by Kaydon

ps.com... Hi Carrie,

Post by David Thomson
Lucid dreaming is

What is the point of it?

Evryone find their own use. Is really good for manifestation though <3

Of course, I'd just rather do this when I'm not sleeping LOL

Post by Kaydon
xoxoxoo
--
"To be or not to be, that is the question. Unless you're a photon."

[David Thomson]

Post by Carrie
How do you know what is 'real" and what is the dream? Maybe what you
believe is the dream, you can fly, rise the dead, move things, etc is realy
what is REAL and what you think of as not dreaming is the illusion?

I forgot to answer your question. It is not important what is real. In the dream world we live by the rules of the dream world (basically none). In the waking world we live by the rules of the waking world. If you want to switch the names of what is waking and what is dreaming, we still have to abide by the rules of that world.

As far as the waking world "rules," we can question the rules. I have spent the last ten years doing just that. Here is a youtube video I made of working with psi wheels:

There are rules that most people simply are not aware of. There is also scientific knowledge that others seem incapable of understanding, which clearly shows the physical world arose from a non-material cause (God).
https://sites.google.com/site/aetherwizard/metaphysics-and-physics

Dave

[David Thomson]

Those are excellent insights, Lee.

[David Thomson]

Hi Carrie,

To talk of a "point of it" is to be rationalizing. There is more to our existence than thinking about it. There is also the part where we feel it.

The Course provides many great ways to rationalize the world, but the exercises also provide a means for experiencing both the world and the means for transcending it.

"I choose to see this differently." We can do this when we are awake and when we are asleep. As Lee points out, they are really the same thing from the perspective of the enlightened mind.

When we are asleep at night, our perception of reality is different from being awake, but our experience is the same. With our sleeping dreams it is much easier to manipulate what we are perceiving. Unlike the waking world, there are no physical objects to project our thoughts onto. The thoughts are raw and purely in the mind. Becoming proficient at controlling our thoughts and feelings in sleep dreams makes us that much better at doing the same in a world where thoughts are projected onto physical objects.

As for me creating the reality after dreaming about it, try to plan your day to run out of gas at a precise location and time that you have had a dream about. It is not as easy as you make it sound. :-)

Dave

[Carrie]

"David Thomson" <***@volantis.org> wrote in message news:379a5e69-f1d7-4f1d-8cf1-***@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com...
Hi Carrie,

To talk of a "point of it" is to be rationalizing. There is more to our
existence than thinking about it. There is also the part where we feel it.

The Course provides many great ways to rationalize the world, but the
exercises also provide a means for experiencing both the world and the means
for transcending it.

"I choose to see this differently." We can do this when we are awake and
when we are asleep. As Lee points out, they are really the same thing from
the perspective of the enlightened mind.

When we are asleep at night, our perception of reality is different from
being awake, but our experience is the same. With our sleeping dreams it is
much easier to manipulate what we are perceiving. Unlike the waking world,
there are no physical objects to project our thoughts onto. The thoughts
are raw and purely in the mind. Becoming proficient at controlling our
thoughts and feelings in sleep dreams makes us that much better at doing the
same in a world where thoughts are projected onto physical objects.

So, you are basically just switching it around, like maybe sleeping more
real (and controllable) then being awake. In the physical sense, form?

As for me creating the reality after dreaming about it, try to plan your day
to run out of gas at a precise location and time that you have had a dream
about. It is not as easy as you make it sound. :-)

I didn't mean you consciously, purposely planned it. You might have set it
up on an energy- Law of Attraction, we create our own "world" way.

Dave

[Deborah]

On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:49:09 -0700 (PDT), David Thomson

Post by David Thomson
Hi Carrie,
To talk of a "point of it" is to be rationalizing. There is more to our existence than thinking about it. There is also the part where we feel it.
The Course provides many great ways to rationalize the world, but the exercises also provide a means for experiencing both the world and the means for transcending it.
"I choose to see this differently." We can do this when we are awake and when we are asleep. As Lee points out, they are really the same thing from the perspective of the enlightened mind.
When we are asleep at night, our perception of reality is different from being awake, but our experience is the same. With our sleeping dreams it is much easier to manipulate what we are perceiving. Unlike the waking world, there are no physical objects to project our thoughts onto. The thoughts are raw and purely in the mind. Becoming proficient at controlling our thoughts and feelings in sleep dreams makes us that much better at doing the same in a world where thoughts are projected onto physical objects.
As for me creating the reality after dreaming about it, try to plan your day to run out of gas at a precise location and time that you have had a dream about. It is not as easy as you make it sound. :-)
Dave

I think there is more to distinguish sleep dreams from the - let's say
"conscious experience" - than just the fact that we are dealing with
something that is purely in the mind when we sleep and dream. We even
know, when we are asleep and dreaming, that it isn't real - we don't
need to be in any special category of "lucid dreamer". Or so I
believe, after more than half a century of falling from tremendous
heights, fleeing from monsters and murderers, etcetera etcetera, and
never once calling on God or even thinking of Him. God is curiously
absent from my sleep dreams. Anybody else noticed this, about their
own dreams? It's like we know that if something is disturbing us or
frightening us, all we have to do is wake up.

When it comes to conscious experience - if this can be compared in any
way to sleep dreams - we don't even know HOW to wake up. When you
don't know how to wake up, it might as WELL be real.

Deborah

[David Thomson]

Post by Carrie
So, you are basically just switching it around, like maybe sleeping more
real (and controllable) then being awake. In the physical sense, form?

I do not see sleeping as being more real than being awake, but I find them both equally unreal, or real, depending upon whether we see them from the Holy Spirit's view or our ego's view. They are two different, but related, worlds. The dream world lacks physical forms to project on to, but otherwise it is not much different in content than the physical world we project on to.

Post by Carrie
As for me creating the reality after dreaming about it, try to plan your day
to run out of gas at a precise location and time that you have had a dream
about. It is not as easy as you make it sound. :-)
I didn't mean you consciously, purposely planned it. You might have set it
up on an energy- Law of Attraction, we create our own "world" way.

If I did subconsciously create the event, then that would have been a marvelous expression of metaphysical ability. And if we could do something like that subconsciously, then it would not take but some effort to do it consciously.

Since that time, I have spent a significant portion of my life trying to work out the physics behind this and other metaphysical experiences I have had. It was a "real" event and therefore there was a cause for the effect. I haven't figured it out, yet.

Dave

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, David Thomson

Post by David Thomson

Post by Carrie
So, you are basically just switching it around, like maybe
sleeping more real (and controllable) then being awake. In the
physical sense, form?

I do not see sleeping as being more real than being awake,

So what? You think ACIM contains only Truth.

I would not ask a person like you for advice on anything.

Post by David Thomson
but I find them = both equally unreal, or real, depending upon
whether we see them from the H= oly Spirit's view or our ego's
view.

This fellow is implying that he can view reality from the
perspective of this supposed "Holy Spirit".

I wish someone would tell him that everything is Holy. There
aren't any exceptions. All existence is Blessed. Everything is of
the body of God. There is no outside.

But would-be gurus and priests (etc.) have to make people believe
that they have abilities no one else has. That's the name of
the game.


[delete]

[David Thomson]

... after more than half a century of falling from tremendous
heights, fleeing from monsters and murderers, etcetera etcetera, and
never once calling on God or even thinking of Him. God is curiously
absent from my sleep dreams. Anybody else noticed this, about their
own dreams?

Of all the observations made by humans since the dawn of time, nobody has ever made a more profound observation in this world than you just did. Specifically state why God is absent in our dreams. I know you know the answer.

Dave

[Deborah]

On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 08:49:37 -0700 (PDT), David Thomson

Post by David Thomson

... after more than half a century of falling from tremendous
heights, fleeing from monsters and murderers, etcetera etcetera, and
never once calling on God or even thinking of Him. God is curiously
absent from my sleep dreams. Anybody else noticed this, about their
own dreams?

Of all the observations made by humans since the dawn of time, nobody has ever made a more profound observation in this world than you just did. Specifically state why God is absent in our dreams. I know you know the answer.
Dave

I don't think I do know. Do you know? Please share.

Deborah

[Lee Flynn]

Post by David Thomson

... after more than half a century of falling from tremendous
heights, fleeing from monsters and murderers, etcetera etcetera, and
never once calling on God or even thinking of Him. God is curiously
absent from my sleep dreams. Anybody else noticed this, about their
own dreams?

Of all the observations made by humans since the dawn of time, nobody
has ever made a more profound observation in this world than you just
did. Specifically state why God is absent in our dreams. I know you
know the answer.
Dave

Hi there Dave, welcome back!

I would say that our first order of slumber, and dreaming,
resulted in man's sense of separation from God. Since nighttime
dreams are an order of slumber further removed, our impulse
toward reaching to God's memory is typically all but obscured.

~ Lee

btw I haven't overlooked your earlier message to me.
I'm wanting to spend a little more time than I have now,
answering it. And I enjoyed following your links very much.
Terrific stuff you're working on.

==============
Dave wrote:

As far as the waking world "rules," we can question the rules. I have
spent the last ten years doing just that. Here is a youtube video I made
of working with psi wheels:
http://youtu.be/ZRbe7st2zIo

There are rules that most people simply are not aware of. There is also
scientific knowledge that others seem incapable of understanding, which
clearly shows the physical world arose from a non-material cause (God).
https://sites.google.com/site/aetherwizard/metaphysics-and-physics

[David Thomson]

Hi Lee and Deb,

Post by Sidney Lambe
David Thomson

Post by David Thomson
Of all the observations made by humans since the dawn of time, nobody
has ever made a more profound observation in this world than you just
did. Specifically state why God is absent in our dreams. I know you
know the answer.

I would say that our first order of slumber, and dreaming,
resulted in man's sense of separation from God. Since nighttime
dreams are an order of slumber further removed, our impulse
toward reaching to God's memory is typically all but obscured.

Not only are we experiencing separation from God, but the part of us that is experiencing the separation is also part of God. "God is in everything because God is in my mind."

The ego is not God, it is the dream of separation. But the dreamer is God, which is why the dreamer does not dream of God.

When I decided to reexamine the foundations of physics, I discovered something that both amazed me and also showed me what I inwardly always knew. All physical matter and space-time (Aether) can be traced back to a non-material cause. The non-material cause of the Universe is in physics quantified as a reciprocal force.

A reciprocal force is different from a physical force. Physical forces are forces that directly act on physical matter. A reciprocal force resembles (and is) will. The reciprocal force acts upon each and every quantum of space and matter with 1/1.21 x 10^44 newton, which I call the Gforce.

Reciprocal quantities in physics are not tiny bits of a bigger quantity, they are completely different units. For example, frequency is equal to 1/time. We do not look upon frequency as a tiny bit of time, but rather as a cycle. Cycles are related to time, but they are not the same thing. Similarly, reciprocal force is related to force, but they are not the same thing. Reciprocal force is will.

The Gforce directly relates to the three fundamental forces, which are magnetic force, electric force, and gravitational force. When you jump into the air, something pulls you back to Earth. It is not an elastic cord or other physical connection, and yet it is real. The atoms of our skin and bones are held together by the magnetic force. The chemistry processes in our body are driven by the electric force. All the fundamental forces are the Gforce acting on the dimensions of mass, magnetic charge, and electric charge. Even space and time are created by the Gforce as it acts upon the magnetic force. All matter and space-time are willed into existence by the Gforce.

The Gforce, itself, arises from the Singularity. The Gforce is literally caused by a split in the Singularity, which produces Gforce and dark matter. There is another split in the Singularity that causes both electrostatic and magnetic charges. Gforce acts upon magnetic charge to produce Aether, which is a quantum rotating magnetic field, or a quantum of space-time. The Aether absorbs a small quantity of dark matter and imparts the properties of electric and magnetic charge, which makes it manifest as visible matter in the form of a subatomic particle. From there, the rest of the physical Universe is built.

Everything we see and all the forces that drive them originate from and are the Gforce. Everything came from the same Source and is maintained by the same Source. We are not separate from God, we are God.

The quality of experience, which we call mind, is also quantifiable. Our feelings are measurable (even in the laboratories, today) in units of conductance. Our self image is a collection of feelings, which are organized into an ego by the tiny piece of Gforce, which is the seed of our individual existence.

Again, the reason we do not dream about God is because a part of God is doing the dreaming. The moment we fully realize who is doing the dreaming, we wake up, so that knowledge is suppressed to perpetuate the dream.

Deb, your observation is just one step away from the Atonement.

Dave

[Deborah]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:22:33 -0700 (PDT), David Thomson

Post by David Thomson
But the dreamer is God, which is why the dreamer does not dream of God.

Hmm. Well, the Dreamer is not God in the "Godhead" sense", or First
Cause" sense, because in that sense God is the Author of Reality, and
His knowledge = truth. Were He to know of dreams, then they would be
real, and I wouldn't want to go that far.

God is in the minds of the separated sons, because there has to be
some reality to them, however far the apple has fallen from the tree.
The Divine Spark is in us all. But we are not "God dreaming", imo.

I can, however, see that I am the only source of the scenario's I seem
to experience in my sleep dreams. I am certainly "God dreaming" viz a
viz my sleep dreams. No one else is responsible. I make up the dream
figures and the dream experiences that cause me to feel whatever I
feel, whether it is love or fear, and it is really clear that I am the
sole, entire source of it. That it is all in my mind, and nowhere
else.

Not so with conscious experience. Not if I give any reality
whatsoever to the presence of others or the physical universe. I did
not create them, though obviously I can only know of them through
sensory data interpreted by the brain, and don't know them as they are
in reality. Add mental processes like interpretation, often on the
paranoid side, and judgment, often on the critical side, just because
I am of a slightly paranoid, critical bent. I obviously have a lot to
do with the world of my perceptions, and it obviously is a reflection
of my state of mind. But in order to reflect, there must be something
to reflect off OF. That something exists independently of me.

Perhaps not independently of God. But independently of me.

That is probably why I have a natural inclination to call on God in my
conscious experience, but not in sleep dream. I am not wholly the
source of my conscious experience, but am wholly the source of the
contents of my sleep dreams.

Deborah

[Sidney Lambe]

Post by Deborah
On Thu, 2 Jun 2011 07:22:33 -0700 (PDT), David Thomson

Post by David Thomson
But the dreamer is God, which is why the dreamer does not
dream of God.

Hmm. Well, the Dreamer is not God in the "Godhead" sense", or
First Cause" sense, because in that sense God is the Author of
Reality, and His knowledge = truth. Were He to know of dreams,
then they would be real, and I wouldn't want to go that far.
God is in the minds of the separated sons, because there has to
be some reality to them, however far the apple has fallen from
the tree. The Divine Spark is in us all. But we are not "God
dreaming", imo.
I can, however, see that I am the only source of the scenario's
I seem to experience in my sleep dreams. I am certainly
"God dreaming" viz a viz my sleep dreams. No one else is
responsible. I make up the dream figures and the dream
experiences that cause me to feel whatever I feel, whether it
is love or fear, and it is really clear that I am the sole,
entire source of it. That it is all in my mind, and nowhere
else.
Not so with conscious experience. Not if I give any reality
whatsoever to the presence of others or the physical universe.
I did not create them, though obviously I can only know of
them through sensory data interpreted by the brain, and don't
know them as they are in reality. Add mental processes like
interpretation, often on the paranoid side, and judgment, often
on the critical side, just because I am of a slightly paranoid,
critical bent. I obviously have a lot to do with the world of
my perceptions, and it obviously is a reflection of my state
of mind. But in order to reflect, there must be something to
reflect off OF. That something exists independently of me.
Perhaps not independently of God. But independently of me.
That is probably why I have a natural inclination to call on
God in my conscious experience, but not in sleep dream. I am
not wholly the source of my conscious experience, but am wholly
the source of the contents of my sleep dreams.
Deborah

When your religion is an artificial construct with almost
no basis in reality, you are left to play intellectual
games with its pieces.

The Truth, as much of it as we need to know right now, can
be stated in plain, everyday, English accessible to all.
You do not even have to be literate. It can be conveyed
verbally to one and all.

"The Nature of Personal Reality" by Jane Roberts is a really
good book. It's not confusing like ACIM> It's not reworked
Christianity like ACIM.

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, David Thomson
[delete]

Post by David Thomson
Not only are we experiencing separation from God,

It is not seperation from God that is the problem.

It is seperation from our own inner, multi-dimensional selves.

All you have to know about God is that It exists. Then you
can get down to business. God can't do anything for you that It
hasn't already done. And It has already given us the ability
to make our own reality.

[delete]

[David Thomson]

Hi Lee,

I would love to participate more frequently, but as I get older I find more and more ways to be useful in this world. I hope the same applies to you. This has truly been a grand time to be born.

Dave

[Sidney Lambe]

On talk.religion.course-miracle, David Thomson

Post by acimite
Hi Lee,
I would love to participate more frequently, but as I get older
I find more and more ways to be useful in this world. I hope
the same applies to you. This has truly been a grand time to be
born.
Dave

If you want to be useful to the world, then quit trying
to make people believe that God wrote ACIM.

Because that's nonsense, and you should know better than
to even suggest it.

"The Nature of Personal Reality" by Jane Roberts makes no such
claim, and it is much more comprehensible and clear than the
mis-named "Course in Miracles". And it makes no references to
Jesus or Moses because the Truth obviously existed long before
they arrived on the scene.

[David Thomson]

Post by Sidney Lambe
So you think you are "God's teacher".
I think I'll wait until _God_ tells me you are Its teacher
before I believe you.
I hope this is okay.

Actually, Sidney, you are God's teacher. And you are doing a marvelous job.

Dave