Asking questions about Christianity

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
If you want to start instant trouble on a group, ask the
Christians a question. In a nice way, just so someone might
explain it, and you'll then know.

True.

But the same thing happenns here about ACIM.

Post by Carrie
Like, if God said (commanded) "Thou shalt not kill" how is
killing (by Christians) justified? George W. Bush (who made a
big deal out of being Christian, and got voted in a lot because
of this) said he prayed and God told him to start bombing Iraq
(how many years ago?) Killing thousands of innocent people who
did nothing to us, and it turned out to be a mistake (and they
kept on doing it)

It was no mistake and as much the doings of Democrats as
Republicans.

We are trying to take control of Mideast oil and the
Afghani opium and heroin production and to destroy Islam
and replace it with Darwinism/Scientific Materialism.

There are many fortunes and jobs and investment incomes
that are and will come from financing the industrial
infrastructure there.

You are right, of course. One is not supposed to kill
anyone for any reason unless it is euthanasia at their
request.

And it isn't necessary to kill in defense. Our Department
of Defense here in America is really our Imperial Army.
A department of offense.

Post by Carrie
Or, "if Jesus died for our sins, why are we still sinners,
and have to be SAVED, still?" (someone told me we are all
sinners because of being born, even though Jesus died FOR our
sins to take this away)

There are about 30,000 officially recognized denominations
of Xianity...

Post by Carrie
Or, if Jesus is quoted in the bible as saying "love thine
enemies" and do good, and bless and turn the other cheek, and
all that. Why are peoiple (Christians, too, sometime moreso)
so darn MEAN? Why don't they "give to those who ask of them"?
(well some do, but not usually unconditionally)

Get this clear, Carrie: Christianity is an entirely artificial
religion. It claims to be based on Jesus' teachings but ignores
most of what he taught.

Post by Carrie
I've asked questions because I really wanted to know, and
it quickly turns into being about ME. I am (once again) trying
to start trouble. "Stir up shit", etc.

Jesus was a troublemaker for sure. And not always strictly
peaceful. Remember the temple and the money changers and
the whip...

Post by Carrie
Maybe the real, overall answer is, there are no answers?

Wrong. And that is a shockingly out-of-place statement here.

Post by Carrie
In which case, why do those who label themselves "Christians"
do so and try and push it on everyone else?

Because they know they are wrong, 'subconsciously' but the more
people who believe the same thing the more true it seems to be.

Besides, scrape a 'Christian' and you'll find a Capitalist
with greed in their heart pretending to be a Christian.

The Inquisition was a land grab...

The Good Christians stole the entire continent...

Post by Carrie
I would think anyone who claims to be a follower of Jesus
and believes in the bible, would at least remember and live by
the simpliest, and clearest line in the bible (that I know of)
"Be ye kind...."

Never heard that, which is strange.

What chapter and verse?

Post by Carrie
I know, nothing stopping me from living by it, and I don't
call/consider myself a Christian LOL Maybe just a seeker of
answers. Sometimes the real answer is, there is no answer.

The real answer is that there is always an answer.
If you can't find it you don't WANT to find it.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Carrie

2010-12-20 23:54:06 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
If you want to start instant trouble on a group, ask the
Christians a question. In a nice way, just so someone might
explain it, and you'll then know.

True.
But the same thing happenns here about ACIM.

It was no mistake and as much the doings of Democrats as
Republicans.
We are trying to take control of Mideast oil and the
Afghani opium and heroin production and to destroy Islam
and replace it with Darwinism/Scientific Materialism.
There are many fortunes and jobs and investment incomes
that are and will come from financing the industrial
infrastructure there.
You are right, of course. One is not supposed to kill
anyone for any reason unless it is euthanasia at their
request.
And it isn't necessary to kill in defense. Our Department
of Defense here in America is really our Imperial Army.
A department of offense.

There are about 30,000 officially recognized denominations
of Xianity...

Get this clear, Carrie: Christianity is an entirely artificial
religion. It claims to be based on Jesus' teachings but ignores
most of what he taught.

I think I already know this. I just like to see what "Christians" will
say when asked. They don't have any real answers, and end up getting mad at
me for asking. But, seems like they should have answers and not mind tell me
them?
As to the killing one, I've been told "killing" and "murder" aren't
the same things and the Bible commandmant about not killing REALLY meant and
means "murder". Killing people in wars is KILLING them, not murdering them.
I never dd get an answer to how can George W Bush order the bombing of Iraq
and the killing of thousands of innocent people (for years) even though it
was supposedly a mistake. And he's a "Christian". But, someone like
Charles Manson, who never killed anyone, but supposedly ordered (or drugged
and programmed) a few people he lived with to go out and kill (or murder) is
in jail for life. Bush actually ordered the killing (murdering?) of
thousands of people, did he think dropping bombs on their country would just
make a loud noise?

I know, ACIM has done this too, arguing points and everyone seems to
have their own beliefs about it and it's starting to spin off into different
"religions" (or cults, maybe) Maybe it's inevitable once people get ahold
of something. They are going to use it to justify whatever they want and
think is right.

I once read that both sides in a war think that God is on THEIR side and
they are right.

It probably is good for jobs and economy (and getting rid of a lot of
poeple who aren't "Americans") it's also good for the population explosion.

Post by Carrie
I've asked questions because I really wanted to know, and
it quickly turns into being about ME. I am (once again) trying
to start trouble. "Stir up shit", etc.

Jesus was a troublemaker for sure. And not always strictly
peaceful. Remember the temple and the money changers and
the whip...

Was any one (or anyone we actually know) THERE to see this and report
it how it actually happened? 2000 or so years ago?

Post by Carrie
Maybe the real, overall answer is, there are no answers?

Wrong. And that is a shockingly out-of-place statement here.

Post by Carrie
In which case, why do those who label themselves "Christians"
do so and try and push it on everyone else?

Because they know they are wrong, 'subconsciously' but the more
people who believe the same thing the more true it seems to be.

Good point. LIke Jesus was killed- murdered and that whole story about
him dying for "our sins" and such was made up to keep people who didn't
agree with him being murdered (for nothing) peaceful about it.

Post by Sidney Lambe
Besides, scrape a 'Christian' and you'll find a Capitalist
with greed in their heart pretending to be a Christian.
The Inquisition was a land grab...
The Good Christians stole the entire continent...

Never heard that, which is strange.
What chapter and verse?

Ephesians 4:32
New American Standard Bible (©1995)

Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in
Christ also has forgiven you.

I googled it and found it in many places.

Some people who claim to be believers in Jesus, seem to have forgotten what
he taught (we are told he did) and got off on being "Saved" because we are
all sinners (even though Jesus supposedly died for our sins) and pushing
this on everyone else.

Post by Carrie
I know, nothing stopping me from living by it, and I don't
call/consider myself a Christian LOL Maybe just a seeker of
answers. Sometimes the real answer is, there is no answer.

The real answer is that there is always an answer.
If you can't find it you don't WANT to find it.

I think the real answer is there is no answer. Everyone has their
own version of reality and truth and, I guess Jesus.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-21 01:37:19 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
If you want to start instant trouble on a group, ask the
Christians a question. In a nice way, just so someone might
explain it, and you'll then know.

True.
But the same thing happenns here about ACIM.

Post by Carrie
Like, if God said (commanded) "Thou shalt not kill" how
is killing (by Christians) justified? George W. Bush (who
made a big deal out of being Christian, and got voted in
a lot because of this) said he prayed and God told him to
start bombing Iraq (how many years ago?) Killing thousands of
innocent people who did nothing to us, and it turned out to
be a mistake (and they kept on doing it)

It was no mistake and as much the doings of Democrats as
Republicans.
We are trying to take control of Mideast oil and the Afghani
opium and heroin production and to destroy Islam and replace
it with Darwinism/Scientific Materialism.
There are many fortunes and jobs and investment incomes that
are and will come from financing the industrial infrastructure
there.
You are right, of course. One is not supposed to kill anyone
for any reason unless it is euthanasia at their request.
And it isn't necessary to kill in defense. Our Department
of Defense here in America is really our Imperial Army. A
department of offense.

There are about 30,000 officially recognized denominations of
Xianity...

Post by Carrie
Or, if Jesus is quoted in the bible as saying "love
thine enemies" and do good, and bless and turn the other
cheek, and all that. Why are peoiple (Christians, too,
sometime moreso) so darn MEAN? Why don't they "give to
those who ask of them"? (well some do, but not usually
unconditionally)

Get this clear, Carrie: Christianity is an entirely artificial
religion. It claims to be based on Jesus' teachings but
ignores most of what he taught.

Ideally. But people wear blinders. All the time. In a big way.
To believe something like Darwinism or Chrstianity you have to.

Post by Carrie
As to the killing one, I've been told "killing" and "murder"
aren't the same things and the Bible commandmant about not
killing REALLY meant and means "murder".

Yeh. That's nonsense.

Post by Carrie
Killing people in wars is KILLING them, not murdering them.
I never dd get an answer to how can George W Bush order the
bombing of Iraq and the killing of thousands of innocent people
(for years) even though it was supposedly a mistake. And he's a
"Christian". But, someone like Charles Manson, who never killed
anyone, but supposedly ordered (or drugged and programmed) a
few people he lived with to go out and kill (or murder) is in
jail for life.
Bush actually ordered the killing (murdering?)
of thousands of people, did he think dropping bombs on their
country would just make a loud noise?

Carrie, Bush acted as the majority of Americans, Democrat
and Republican, and whatever, wanted him to.

Leaders are just symbols. Blaming them is a waste of time.

Post by Carrie
I know, ACIM has done this too, arguing points and
everyone seems to have their own beliefs about it and it's
starting to spin off into different "religions" (or cults,
maybe) Maybe it's inevitable once people get ahold of
something. They are going to use it to justify whatever they
want and think is right.

That's the American Way: decide first what you are going to do
and then rationalize and justify it later.

Post by Carrie
I once read that both sides in a war think that God is on
THEIR side and they are right.

Of course.

Post by Carrie
It probably is good for jobs and economy (and getting rid
of a lot of poeple who aren't "Americans") it's also good for
the population explosion.

I don't think so. It takes a lot in the way of support staff
and industrial support to make a war happen. We breed faster than
we kill.

It isn't the army that is at fault. An army is the fists of
a people.

It is the people who are at fault. Who create and direct the
army.

In order to stop the army you have to go after the people who
created it.

Which is why civilians are always being attacked. And they
deserve it.

Post by Carrie
I've asked questions because I really wanted to know,
and it quickly turns into being about ME. I am (once again)
trying to start trouble. "Stir up shit", etc.

Jesus was a troublemaker for sure. And not always strictly
peaceful. Remember the temple and the money changers and the
whip...

Was any one (or anyone we actually know) THERE to see
this and report it how it actually happened? 2000 or so years
ago?

I think so. Why? I don't find this at all unbelievable.

The idea that evolved people never get angry is simply untrue.

Post by Carrie
Maybe the real, overall answer is, there are no answers?

Wrong. And that is a shockingly out-of-place statement here.

Post by Carrie
In which case, why do those who label themselves "Christians"
do so and try and push it on everyone else?

Because they know they are wrong, 'subconsciously' but the
more people who believe the same thing the more true it seems
to be.

Good point. LIke Jesus was killed- murdered and that whole
story about him dying for "our sins" and such was made up to
keep people who didn't agree with him being murdered (for
nothing) peaceful about it.

Post by Carrie
I would think anyone who claims to be a follower of
Jesus and believes in the bible, would at least remember and
live by the simpliest, and clearest line in the bible (that I
know of)
"Be ye kind...."

Never heard that, which is strange.
What chapter and verse?

Ephesians 4:32 New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other,
just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
I googled it and found it in many places.
Some people who claim to be believers in Jesus, seem to have
forgotten what he taught (we are told he did) and got off on
being "Saved" because we are all sinners (even though Jesus
supposedly died for our sins) and pushing this on everyone
else.

Christianity has almost nothing to do with Jesus.

Post by Carrie
I know, nothing stopping me from living by it, and I
don't call/consider myself a Christian LOL Maybe just a
seeker of answers. Sometimes the real answer is, there is no
answer.

The real answer is that there is always an answer. If you
can't find it you don't WANT to find it.

I think the real answer is there is no answer.

And I know you are wrong.

Post by Carrie
Everyone has their own version of reality and truth and,

No. There is only one Truth. One 'mechanics of reality' and it
doesn't matter what you think about them. You can't change the
basic nature of reality.

Post by Carrie
I guess Jesus. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

What does that mean?

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Carrie

2010-12-21 03:47:17 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Carrie
If you want to start instant trouble on a group, ask the
Christians a question. In a nice way, just so someone might
explain it, and you'll then know.

True.
But the same thing happenns here about ACIM.

Post by Carrie
Like, if God said (commanded) "Thou shalt not kill" how
is killing (by Christians) justified? George W. Bush (who
made a big deal out of being Christian, and got voted in
a lot because of this) said he prayed and God told him to
start bombing Iraq (how many years ago?) Killing thousands of
innocent people who did nothing to us, and it turned out to
be a mistake (and they kept on doing it)

It was no mistake and as much the doings of Democrats as
Republicans.
We are trying to take control of Mideast oil and the Afghani
opium and heroin production and to destroy Islam and replace
it with Darwinism/Scientific Materialism.
There are many fortunes and jobs and investment incomes that
are and will come from financing the industrial infrastructure
there.
You are right, of course. One is not supposed to kill anyone
for any reason unless it is euthanasia at their request.
And it isn't necessary to kill in defense. Our Department
of Defense here in America is really our Imperial Army. A
department of offense.

There are about 30,000 officially recognized denominations of
Xianity...

Post by Carrie
Or, if Jesus is quoted in the bible as saying "love
thine enemies" and do good, and bless and turn the other
cheek, and all that. Why are peoiple (Christians, too,
sometime moreso) so darn MEAN? Why don't they "give to
those who ask of them"? (well some do, but not usually
unconditionally)

Get this clear, Carrie: Christianity is an entirely artificial
religion. It claims to be based on Jesus' teachings but
ignores most of what he taught.

Ideally. But people wear blinders. All the time. In a big way.
To believe something like Darwinism or Chrstianity you have to.

Post by Carrie
As to the killing one, I've been told "killing" and "murder"
aren't the same things and the Bible commandmant about not
killing REALLY meant and means "murder".

Yeh. That's nonsense.

Carrie, Bush acted as the majority of Americans, Democrat
and Republican, and whatever, wanted him to.
Leaders are just symbols. Blaming them is a waste of time.

That's the American Way: decide first what you are going to do
and then rationalize and justify it later.

Post by Carrie
I once read that both sides in a war think that God is on
THEIR side and they are right.

Of course.

Post by Carrie
It probably is good for jobs and economy (and getting rid
of a lot of poeple who aren't "Americans") it's also good for
the population explosion.

I don't think so. It takes a lot in the way of support staff
and industrial support to make a war happen. We breed faster than
we kill.
It isn't the army that is at fault. An army is the fists of
a people.
It is the people who are at fault. Who create and direct the
army.
In order to stop the army you have to go after the people who
created it.
Which is why civilians are always being attacked. And they
deserve it.

Post by Carrie
I've asked questions because I really wanted to know,
and it quickly turns into being about ME. I am (once again)
trying to start trouble. "Stir up shit", etc.

Jesus was a troublemaker for sure. And not always strictly
peaceful. Remember the temple and the money changers and the
whip...

Was any one (or anyone we actually know) THERE to see
this and report it how it actually happened? 2000 or so years
ago?

I think so. Why? I don't find this at all unbelievable.
The idea that evolved people never get angry is simply untrue.

Post by Carrie
Maybe the real, overall answer is, there are no answers?

Wrong. And that is a shockingly out-of-place statement here.

Post by Carrie
In which case, why do those who label themselves "Christians"
do so and try and push it on everyone else?

Because they know they are wrong, 'subconsciously' but the
more people who believe the same thing the more true it seems
to be.

Good point. LIke Jesus was killed- murdered and that whole
story about him dying for "our sins" and such was made up to
keep people who didn't agree with him being murdered (for
nothing) peaceful about it.

Post by Carrie
I would think anyone who claims to be a follower of
Jesus and believes in the bible, would at least remember and
live by the simpliest, and clearest line in the bible (that I
know of)
"Be ye kind...."

Never heard that, which is strange.
What chapter and verse?

Ephesians 4:32 New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other,
just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
I googled it and found it in many places.
Some people who claim to be believers in Jesus, seem to have
forgotten what he taught (we are told he did) and got off on
being "Saved" because we are all sinners (even though Jesus
supposedly died for our sins) and pushing this on everyone
else.

Christianity has almost nothing to do with Jesus.

Post by Carrie
I know, nothing stopping me from living by it, and I
don't call/consider myself a Christian LOL Maybe just a
seeker of answers. Sometimes the real answer is, there is no
answer.

The real answer is that there is always an answer. If you
can't find it you don't WANT to find it.

I think the real answer is there is no answer.

And I know you are wrong.

So, what is the point of discussing anything with me? If I am wrong and
you know it?

Post by Carrie
Everyone has their own version of reality and truth and,

No. There is only one Truth. One 'mechanics of reality' and it
doesn't matter what you think about them. You can't change the
basic nature of reality.

Who gets to decide who's version of Truth is the only True one?

Post by Carrie
I guess Jesus. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

What does that mean?

Everyone has their own version of reality and truth and,
I guess Jesus. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

You broke it up, out of context.

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-21 04:12:23 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie
[delete]

Post by Carrie
Everyone has their own version of reality and truth and,

No. There is only one Truth. One 'mechanics of reality' and it
doesn't matter what you think about them. You can't change the
basic nature of reality.

Who gets to decide who's version of Truth is the only True
one?

No one. It simply is. It is right there for all to see.
Do people argue over gravity?
Does it matter whether you agree with gravity or not?

"As above so below".

Post by Carrie
I guess Jesus. I don't think there's anything wrong with
that.

What does that mean?

Everyone has their own version of reality and truth and, I
guess Jesus. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
You broke it up, out of context.

It still isn't true in the way you seem to mean it.
Beliefs make reality. You can't change that. You can
believe it isn't true, but it will still be true.

As for Jesus, no one ever needs to hear of him.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Carrie

2010-12-21 14:23:28 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie
[delete]

Post by Carrie
Everyone has their own version of reality and truth and,

No. There is only one Truth. One 'mechanics of reality' and it
doesn't matter what you think about them. You can't change the
basic nature of reality.

Who gets to decide who's version of Truth is the only True one?

No one. It simply is. It is right there for all to see.
Do people argue over gravity?
Does it matter whether you agree with gravity or not?
"As above so below".

Post by Carrie
I guess Jesus. I don't think there's anything wrong with
that.

What does that mean?

Everyone has their own version of reality and truth and, I
guess Jesus. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
You broke it up, out of context.

It still isn't true in the way you seem to mean it.
Beliefs make reality. You can't change that. You can
believe it isn't true, but it will still be true.

And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and I am wrong, the
idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and energy.

Post by Sidney Lambe
As for Jesus, no one ever needs to hear of him.
Sid

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-21 15:56:45 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie
[delete]

Post by Carrie
Everyone has their own version of reality and truth and,

No. There is only one Truth. One 'mechanics of reality'
and it doesn't matter what you think about them. You can't
change the basic nature of reality.

Who gets to decide who's version of Truth is the only
True one?

No one. It simply is. It is right there for all to see. Do
people argue over gravity? Does it matter whether you agree
with gravity or not?
"As above so below".

Post by Carrie
I guess Jesus. I don't think there's anything wrong with
that.

What does that mean?

Everyone has their own version of reality and truth and, I
guess Jesus. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
You broke it up, out of context.

It still isn't true in the way you seem to mean it. Beliefs
make reality. You can't change that. You can believe it isn't
true, but it will still be true.

And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and I am
wrong, the idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and
energy.

One more time: The Truth simply _is_, Carrie. It doesn't
care whether you like it or agree with it or not. Your
thoughts have no effect on it whatsoever and never will.

There are an infinite number of things we can change, but
there are some we cannot. For example, you will reincarnate
whether you want to or believe in it or not.

[delete]

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

John Radgosky

2010-12-21 15:59:46 UTC

And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and I am wrong, the
idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and energy.

No doubt I'll be stating the obvious, but just in case I'm not ...

Truth has no versions. Truth is. Truth is not a matter of belief.
It is a matter of knowing.

The good news is, the course is "required". Devoting time there is
neither a waste of time or energy. And ACIM shows how to choose love
which removes any chance of being "wrong".

And according to ACIM, comments about "words" are found in the lessons
at this time of year. Have you consulted, asked for guidance, or read
these recent lessons and actually completed them? Or, are you instead
attempting to find answers via ego based "discussion" ?

John Radgosky

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-21 16:07:21 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

=A0 And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and I am
wrong, =A0=

the

idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and energy.

No doubt I'll be stating the obvious, but just in case I'm not
...
Truth has no versions. Truth is. Truth is not a matter
belief. It is a matter of knowing.

Indeed.

Post by John Radgosky
The good news is, the course is "required".

The good news is that is bullshit.

Post by John Radgosky
Devoting time there is neither a waste of time or energy. And
ACIM shows how to choose love which removes any chance of being
"wrong".

ACIM teaches that life is bad. Therefore ACIM is bad.

Post by John Radgosky
And according to ACIM, comments about "words" are found in the
lessons at this time of year. Have you consulted, asked for
guidance, or read these recent lessons and actually completed
them? Or, are you instead attempting to find answers via ego
based "discussion" ?
John Radgosky

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Carrie

2010-12-21 17:10:15 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

=A0 And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and I am
wrong, =A0=

the

idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and energy.

No doubt I'll be stating the obvious, but just in case I'm not ...
Truth has no versions. Truth is. Truth is not a matter
belief. It is a matter of knowing.

Indeed.

Post by John Radgosky
The good news is, the course is "required".

The good news is that is bullshit.

Post by John Radgosky
Devoting time there is neither a waste of time or energy. And
ACIM shows how to choose love which removes any chance of being
"wrong".

ACIM teaches that life is bad. Therefore ACIM is bad.

He just wants to be right, too. The course actually says that everyone
is just as right as everyone else. Which does seem like the most peaceful
way. Only egos insist on being right and making someone else not right.

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-21 18:13:32 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

=A0 And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and I
am wrong, =A0=

the

idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and energy.

No doubt I'll be stating the obvious, but just in case I'm
not ...
Truth has no versions. Truth is. Truth is not a matter
belief. It is a matter of knowing.

Indeed.

Post by John Radgosky
The good news is, the course is "required".

The good news is that is bullshit.

Post by John Radgosky
Devoting time there is neither a waste of time or energy. And
ACIM shows how to choose love which removes any chance of
being "wrong".

ACIM teaches that life is bad. Therefore ACIM is bad.

Post by John Radgosky
And according to ACIM, comments about "words" are found in
the lessons at this time of year. Have you consulted, asked
for guidance, or read these recent lessons and actually
completed them? Or, are you instead attempting to find
answers via ego based "discussion" ?
John Radgosky

He just wants to be right, too.
The course actually says that everyone is just as right as
everyone else.

Which is utter nonsense.

Post by Carrie
Which does seem like the most peaceful way.

No. Ignorance does not lead to peace.

Post by Carrie
Only egos insist on being right and making someone else not
right.

That is complete garbage.

You are wrong.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

John Radgosky

2010-12-21 23:04:22 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

=A0 And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and I am
wrong, =A0=

the

idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and energy.

No doubt I'll be stating the obvious, but just in case I'm not ...
Truth has no versions. Truth is. Truth is not a matter
belief. It is a matter of knowing.

Indeed.

Post by John Radgosky
The good news is, the course is "required".

The good news is that is bullshit.

Post by John Radgosky
Devoting time there is neither a waste of time or energy. And
ACIM shows how to choose love which removes any chance of being
"wrong".

ACIM teaches that life is bad. Therefore ACIM is bad.

Oh right. Discussing it with YOUR ego would be right, but with
anyone else's it would be wrong.
I think you better put up your shields, Carrie. This guy
is looking to be another wannabee guru seeking to exploit
your weaknesses.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Gosh Sid, I thought the course teaches heaven is right here right
now.

Are you distorting levels , maybe ?

But amazing you conclude a wannabee guru on the basis of what, two
posts ? Quite a spectacular conclusion based on little info. Suggest
you collect more before guessing about what it is you perceive /
project.

The good news is, there are choices to be made.

Peace

John Radgosky

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-21 23:28:07 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

On Dec 21, 11:07=A0am, Sidney Lambe

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

=3DA0 And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and
I am wrong, =3DA0=3D

the idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and
energy.
No doubt I'll be stating the obvious, but just in case I'm
not ...
Truth has no versions. Truth is. Truth is not a matter
belief. It is a matter of knowing.

Indeed.

Post by Carrie
The good news is, the course is "required".

The good news is that is bullshit.

Post by Carrie
Devoting time there is neither a waste of time or energy.
And ACIM shows how to choose love which removes any chance
of being "wrong".

ACIM teaches that life is bad. Therefore ACIM is bad.

Post by Carrie
And according to ACIM, comments about "words" are found in
the lessons at this time of year. Have you consulted, asked
for guidance, or read these recent lessons and actually
completed them? Or, are you instead attempting to find
answers via ego based "discussion" ?
John Radgosky

Gosh Sid, I thought the course teaches heaven is right here
right now.

There is no 'heaven'. I am repulsed by all this Christian
terminology.

The larger dimensions of which this one is an extension of
are 'here and now' even though there is no time or space
there.

Are you distorting levels , maybe ?
But amazing you conclude a wannabee guru on the basis of what,
two posts ? Quite a spectacular conclusion based on little
info. Suggest you collect more before guessing about what it is
you perceive / project.

I am not limited by your limitations.

The good news is, there are choices to be made.

I choose to be here as an ACIM critic for the nonce.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

John Radgosky

2010-12-22 02:20:21 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

On Dec 21, 11:07=A0am, Sidney Lambe

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

=3DA0 And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and
I am wrong, =3DA0=3D

the idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and
energy.
No doubt I'll be stating the obvious, but just in case I'm not ...
Truth has no versions. Truth is. Truth is not a matter
belief. It is a matter of knowing.

Indeed.

Post by Carrie
The good news is, the course is "required".

The good news is that is bullshit.

Post by Carrie
Devoting time there is neither a waste of time or energy.
And ACIM shows how to choose love which removes any chance
of being "wrong".

ACIM teaches that life is bad. Therefore ACIM is bad.

Gosh Sid, I thought the course teaches heaven is right here
right now.

There is no 'heaven'. I am repulsed by all this Christian
terminology.
The larger dimensions of which this one is an extension of
are 'here and now' even though there is no time or space
there.

I am not limited by your limitations.

The good news is, there are choices to be made.

I choose to be here as an ACIM critic for the nonce.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Sid,

Criticism is fine and welcome when its objective.

take out the word heaven and replace it with peace or joy. Maybe that
sugar will help you swallow the idea I attempted to convey. The word
heaven no doubt is prone to offend some. However the odds are long on
that actually happening to or for many.

My intention was not to offend, but to express an idea. And since you
are repulsed, I imagine that is not a pleasant although passing
feeling.

And no doubt my limitations are of no use to you. More likely than
not you probably have plenty of your own to deal with. :>)

Good news is, you do have a choice to feel much better about such
things.

Peace

JR

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-22 02:41:06 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

On Dec 21, 11:07=3DA0am, Sidney Lambe

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

=3D3DA0 And again, how you see it and believe it is true, and
I am wrong, =3D3DA0=3D3D

the idea of discussing anything is a waste of time and
energy.
No doubt I'll be stating the obvious, but just in case I'm not ...
Truth has no versions. Truth is. Truth is not a matter
belief. It is a matter of knowing.

Indeed.

Post by Carrie
The good news is, the course is "required".

The good news is that is bullshit.

Post by Carrie
Devoting time there is neither a waste of time or energy.
And ACIM shows how to choose love which removes any chance
of being "wrong".

ACIM teaches that life is bad. Therefore ACIM is bad.

Gosh Sid, I thought the course teaches heaven is right here
right now.

There is no 'heaven'. I am repulsed by all this Christian
terminology.
The larger dimensions of which this one is an extension of
are 'here and now' even though there is no time or space
there.

I am not limited by your limitations.

The good news is, there are choices to be made.

I choose to be here as an ACIM critic for the nonce.

Sid,
Criticism is fine and welcome when its objective.

I say what I say and you live with it.
If you don't think it's "objective", tough shit.

Post by John Radgosky
take out the word heaven and replace it with peace or joy. Maybe that
sugar will help you swallow the idea I attempted to convey.

You really need a dictionary.

[delete arrogant tripe]

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

John Radgosky

2010-12-21 23:09:58 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
I think you better put up your shields, Carrie. This guy
is looking to be another wannabee guru seeking to exploit
your weaknesses.
Sid

An alternative suggestion for Carrie. And probably you too Sid:

Research what the course has to say about defenslesness and what it
accomplishes.

Good news is, there are choices to be made.

Peace

John Radgosky

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-21 23:28:08 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
I think you better put up your shields, Carrie. This guy
is looking to be another wannabee guru seeking to exploit
your weaknesses.
Sid

Research what the course has to say about defenslesness and what it
accomplishes.

Kiss my ass.

Post by John Radgosky
Good news is, there are choices to be made.

Yes. And you won't be consulted and will have to live
with my choices.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

John Radgosky

2010-12-22 02:27:09 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
Kiss my ass.

You own a donkey, or do you just rent one ?

Post by Sidney Lambe
Yes. And you won't be consulted and will have to live
with my choices.

Ok, a critic with a skewed attitude.

Let's just say that whether we like it or not, we all live with
choices others make. It's one of the teachings of the course on the
topic of how we teach. We teach by example. And ideas held in mind.
And the good news is you can make choices that impact to bring and
spread peace and joy. Not overlooking it IS a choice that guarantees
results according to ACIM.

How do you choose Sid ?

JR

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-22 02:41:07 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
Kiss my ass.

You own a donkey, or do you just rent one ?

I don't own a donkey, but I sure know an ass.

That would be YOU.

And it's time for you to shut your fucking punk mouth here.

[delete]

I have never encountered such a high percentage of
arrogant jerkoffs in a religious movement before.

(Not talking about Carrie.)

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

John Radgosky

2010-12-22 03:40:46 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
Kiss my ass.

You own a donkey, or do you just rent one ?

I don't own a donkey, but I sure know an ass.
That would be YOU.

My name's not Jack, Sid.

Post by Sidney Lambe
And it's time for you to shut your fucking punk mouth here.

hahaha ... oh my, are you playing at being one of those internet tough
guys ?

If I somehow got you all riled up I suppose I must have struck a nerve
very close to one of your "don't go there" fears.

And in case you've missed it, fear is one of the main things ACIM
deals with, and how to make a better choice.

Stay cool Sid. It's just some talking going on. Sounds like you
might just be unsure about the soundness of your p.o.v. otherwise ,
why the lack of objectivity and the venture into uncontrolled
expression ?

Post by Sidney Lambe
I have never encountered such a high percentage of
arrogant jerkoffs in a religious movement before.
(Not talking about Carrie.)

Sid, if I thought I was involved in a religious movement I would bolt
outa here so quick your ass would wonder what caused the noise of a
broken sound barrier.

Seems to me you got your knickers in a little bit of a twist there
Sid. Try being objective. Makes for one of the 7 habits of the
highly succesful critic.

And besides, looking down the list of who posts here, it looks like no
more than about 4 people, if that, and that includes you.. So that's
not a large sample survey, is it Sid? Can't really hang your hat on
such a small survey group. Results will be unreliable.

Peace

JR

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-22 03:50:41 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
Kiss my ass.

You own a donkey, or do you just rent one ?

I don't own a donkey, but I sure know an ass.
That would be YOU.

My name's not Jack, Sid.

[delete balance unread]

See what I mean? This fellow has the mentality
of a snotty teenage bitch.

When you don't have Truth you have to resort
to bullying.

You see it in all of the religions.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Carrie

2010-12-22 16:11:36 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

On Dec 21, 6:28=3DA0pm, Sidney Lambe

Post by Sidney Lambe
Kiss my ass.

You own a donkey, or do you just rent one ?

I don't own a donkey, but I sure know an ass.
That would be YOU.

My name's not Jack, Sid.

[delete balance unread]
See what I mean? This fellow has the mentality
of a snotty teenage bitch.
When you don't have Truth you have to resort
to bullying.
You see it in all of the religions.

But so what? Does it (does it have to) effect you or me?
And John does have Truth, he has his own version of it. Which makes him
feel need to point out the faults (he perceives) in others, and react to
them as though they are real.
Even though he knows they are not.
Maybe it's just a way of having fun and seeing it that way would change
the context of it.

John Radgosky

2010-12-22 17:04:26 UTC

OK, so let me approach this from another direction.

This is an ACIM forum. Does ACIM teach that Truth has versions? That
anyone can "choose" their version of it ? Or, does it teach that
Truth is real and is non dualistic ? For example, does ACIM teach
that the truth of who we are changes based on which person is
considering the question ? That each person's IDEA of who they are is
the truth, and mulitiple in nature according to their choice of
answer , thereby continuing the promotion of the idea of
separateness ? What do you understand ACIM teaches on the subject of
Truth (rhetorical) ?

And does ACIM teach the concept of perception as any revealor of
Truth ? Or, does it teach that knowledge and not perception leads to
Truth ?

And, does ACIM teach that versions of Truth can only originate from
perception/projection from ego based based thinking ? And does ACIM
teach that such ego based thinking IS faulty?

So remove reference personally towards another when considering such
points, because it tends to turn conversation "personal" and can
interfere with objectivity. I doubt there is much to gain by
attempting to make things personal. Do you agree or not ?

So consider it not whether JR or anyone else "thinks" anyone else is
wrong, or at fault, and instead, consider what ACIM teaches. And ACIM
doesn't provide wiggle room. It leads to knowledge only, and to the
Truth. ACIM doesn't have a "pick your own conclusion" to the outcome
of the scribed pages.

Plus, it's not efficient to attempt to describe what another is
"feeling" or thinking. No one has the ability to know what anyone
else is "thinking" or "feeling" unless the person spells it out. It's
wise to refrain from such folly because it's only speculation or guess
work. Would you agree with that ?

Peace

JR

Carrie

2010-12-22 17:46:31 UTC

Post by Carrie
But so what? Does it (does it have to) effect you or me?
And John does have Truth, he has his own version of it. Which makes
him feel need to point out the faults (he perceives) in others, and
react to them as though they are real.
Even though he knows they are not.
Maybe it's just a way of having fun and seeing it that way would
change the context of it.

OK, so let me approach this from another direction.
This is an ACIM forum. Does ACIM teach that Truth has versions? That
anyone can "choose" their version of it ? Or, does it teach that
Truth is real and is non dualistic ? For example, does ACIM teach
that the truth of who we are changes based on which person is
considering the question ? That each person's IDEA of who they are is
the truth, and mulitiple in nature according to their choice of
answer , thereby continuing the promotion of the idea of
separateness ? What do you understand ACIM teaches on the subject of
Truth (rhetorical) ?
And does ACIM teach the concept of perception as any revealor of
Truth ? Or, does it teach that knowledge and not perception leads to
Truth ?
And, does ACIM teach that versions of Truth can only originate from
perception/projection from ego based based thinking ? And does ACIM
teach that such ego based thinking IS faulty?
So remove reference personally towards another when considering such
points, because it tends to turn conversation "personal" and can
interfere with objectivity. I doubt there is much to gain by
attempting to make things personal. Do you agree or not ?
So consider it not whether JR or anyone else "thinks" anyone else is
wrong, or at fault, and instead, consider what ACIM teaches. And ACIM
doesn't provide wiggle room. It leads to knowledge only, and to the
Truth. ACIM doesn't have a "pick your own conclusion" to the outcome
of the scribed pages.
Plus, it's not efficient to attempt to describe what another is
"feeling" or thinking. No one has the ability to know what anyone
else is "thinking" or "feeling" unless the person spells it out. It's
wise to refrain from such folly because it's only speculation or guess
work. Would you agree with that ?
Peace
JR

I don't understand your point in all this. What do you WANT? Someone to
say you are right? Your way of seeing something and believing it is right
and anyone who doesn't totally agree with it is wrong? You seem to put so
much time and energy into trying to get others to see ACIM the way you do.
Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but why does it matter? Where does it say
in it, we have to learn the words, and what they mean (in some overall
absolute way) and make everyone else believe it and understand it the same
way?
The real point of this seems to be why does it matter? Just live it the
way you believe it, and "let all things be exactly as they are".
The course says one brother is just as right as another. So you are
right. What more do you wnat? Every last person (or everyone who posts here
or ever will or ever did) to say YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!
Why does it really matter? Is what you write coming from love, and
joining and "Holy Spirit" or ego? Do you feel peaceful writing it?

John Radgosky

2010-12-22 20:52:00 UTC

I don't understand your point in all this. What do you WANT? Someone to
say you are right?

Last I checked this is an ACIM forum. To discuss ACIM topics. You
sound confused that I would want anything. Either you agree with ACIM
teaching or you do not. I'm simply responding to what you write to
contribute as best I can with my understanding of ACIM teaching and
how what you write seems not to. Nothing more.

You sound threatened. I'm not threatening you. I'm trying to see if
you accept what ACIM teaches, or not. It's not a difficult thing to
grasp.

Do you think that I WANT something ?

Your way of seeing something and believing it is right
and anyone who doesn't totally agree with it is wrong?

Do you think ACIM teaches to discern between right and wrong ? Do
you accept that within the frame of ACIM teaching there IS no such
thing. There is only real and unreal. Truth and not truth. Love and
Fear. . Do you agree that according to ACIM the idea of right and
wrong exists in the world, where ego operates. Do you think that when
I write here, in an ACIM forum, I am writing from the basis of the
world, or from the basis of what ACIM teaches about what is real and
what is not. ?

You seem to put so
much time and energy into trying to get others to see ACIM the way you do.

I'm asking how you see it. I can't impress upon you or anyone how I
see it. But I do accept there is ONLY one way to see the course,
and that is, the manner in which it is taught. Leading to truth.
Which is NOT variable. May I assume you see it differently, that
truth is VARIABLE ?

Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but why does it matter? Where does it say
in it, we have to learn the words, and what they mean (in some overall
absolute way) and make everyone else believe it and understand it the same
way?

Do you agree or not , that there is ONLY one way to see truth ? Do
you agree or not that ACIM teaches truth ? Or do you instead chosse
to adhere that ACIM teaches that perception (how each sees it) is the
ojbective of the teaching ?

The real point of this seems to be why does it matter? Just live it the
way you believe it, and "let all things be exactly as they are".

That's ridiculous, regarding ACIM and it's purpose.
Even if one does not believe ACIM or adhere to its teaching, you are
proposing a free for all. And would you not agree that is a perfect
example of ego minded thinking ? Do you not agree that the course
teaches about how to CHANGE such thinking ?

The course says one brother is just as right as another. So you are
right. What more do you wnat? Every last person (or everyone who posts here
or ever will or ever did) to say YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

I'm more concerned with, in THIS particular forum, what participants
say about the COURSE. And not about who is right or not. Such a
concept of right or not is , would you agree, not the ACIM way ?

Why does it really matter? Is what you write coming from love, and
joining and "Holy Spirit" or ego? Do you feel peaceful writing it

Oh yes ma'am I do. Very much so. What leads you to ask such a
question. Is something bothering you in what I write ?

Will you accept I am not searching for right or wrong ? Would you
accept I am discussing what ACIM teaches, not what I want. I know
what I want from an ACIM perspective. And it has nothing to do with
seeking any endorsement from anyone. What I want to know is in ACIM.
Would you agree with that statement ?

Peace

JR

Carrie

2010-12-22 21:06:56 UTC

Post by Carrie
I don't understand your point in all this. What do you WANT? Someone
to say you are right?

Last I checked this is an ACIM forum. To discuss ACIM topics. You
sound confused that I would want anything. Either you agree with ACIM
teaching or you do not. I'm simply responding to what you write to
contribute as best I can with my understanding of ACIM teaching and
how what you write seems not to. Nothing more.
You sound threatened. I'm not threatening you. I'm trying to see if
you accept what ACIM teaches, or not. It's not a difficult thing to
grasp.

I do accept it. Why would you have to "see" if I do or not? And what do
you base your being able to decide this (about me) on?

Post by John Radgosky
Do you think that I WANT something ?

Post by Carrie
Your way of seeing something and believing it is right
and anyone who doesn't totally agree with it is wrong?

you can't be writing in words, and coming from ACIM and what it
teaches. You have to be coming from ego/form.
So, that's not a valid question.

Post by Carrie
You seem to put so
much time and energy into trying to get others to see ACIM the way you do.

I'm asking how you see it.

Why does it matter to you how I see it? All you are seeing is your
perception (based on projection) of what *I* am seeing.
Your take on it.

I can't impress upon you or anyone how I

Post by John Radgosky
see it. But I do accept there is ONLY one way to see the course,
and that is, the manner in which it is taught. Leading to truth.
Which is NOT variable. May I assume you see it differently, that
truth is VARIABLE ?

I have no idea what you are assuming. You are free to assume whatever
you want.

Post by Carrie
Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but why does it matter? Where does
it say in it, we have to learn the words, and what they mean (in
some overall absolute way) and make everyone else believe it and
understand it the same way?

Post by Carrie
The real point of this seems to be why does it matter? Just live it
the way you believe it, and "let all things be exactly as they are".

Post by Carrie
The course says one brother is just as right as another. So you are
right. What more do you wnat? Every last person (or everyone who
posts here or ever will or ever did) to say YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

I'm more concerned with, in THIS particular forum, what participants
say about the COURSE. And not about who is right or not. Such a
concept of right or not is , would you agree, not the ACIM way ?

Post by Carrie
Why does it really matter? Is what you write coming from love, and
joining and "Holy Spirit" or ego? Do you feel peaceful writing it

Oh yes ma'am I do. Very much so. What leads you to ask such a
question. Is something bothering you in what I write ?
Will you accept I am not searching for right or wrong ? Would you
accept I am discussing what ACIM teaches, not what I want. I know
what I want from an ACIM perspective. And it has nothing to do with
seeking any endorsement from anyone. What I want to know is in ACIM.
Would you agree with that statement ?

I just wondered what you wanted here. To make your views known and
be told "yes you are right" or to join with others in some way.
Seems like we have gone through this many times before. Maybe the
course is something that can't be discussed (in words) and only can be
experienced and shared in nonverbal ways?

Post by John Radgosky
Peace
JR

John Radgosky

2010-12-22 22:35:52 UTC

I'm trying to see if
you accept what ACIM teaches, or not.

I do accept it. Why would you have to "see" if I do or not? And what do
you base your being able to decide this (about me) on?

I'm asking, not deciding. I can't decide for you, can I ?

Point is, if you DO accept what ACIM teaches, how can you possibly
hold that Truth is whatever any individual makes it to be or believes
it to be ? Do you accept that ACIM does NOT teach anything remotely
like that ?

So, I'm in conflict with what you say and what you claim. You claim
to accept what ACIM teaches and then say completely differently as if
you do not.

Once again, are you perhaps always speaking from the p.o.v. of the
WORLD, forgetting about the world of truth and spirit, and ignoring
what ACIM teaches simply to talk as if you were passing time in a
coffee clutch engaged in idle conversation ?

And the reason I ask is, you have been writing in your way for YEARS
and have not changed your stance. You have been stubbornly attached
to the idea that truth is variable and a choice for each person to
make of it whatever he/she chooses. And so I wonder if , FROM AN ACIM
PERSPECTIVE, whether you are deluding yourself and, in the manner of
what and how you write, inadvertently misrepresent what the course
actully teaches.

There is something at stake you see. And that is, how is the course
teaching represented in dialogue ? Either it is understood and
portayed well, or it is not. And one never knows whom is listening,
and how ideas are passed.

Do you think that I WANT something ?

Post by Carrie
Your way of seeing something and believing it is right
and anyone who doesn't totally agree with it is wrong?

you can't be writing in words, and coming from ACIM and what it
teaches. You have to be coming from ego/form.
So, that's not a valid question.

But isn't ACIM written in words , scribed ,,,, in words ? If not,
explain yourself.

Post by Carrie
You seem to put so
much time and energy into trying to get others to see ACIM the way you do.

I'm asking how you see it.

Why does it matter to you how I see it?

It matters. Do you recall in ACIM the concept about the impact of
thought and words ?

All you are seeing is your

perception (based on projection) of what *I* am seeing.
Your take on it.

Not true. I don't know what you see. So, I am asking. And you
continue to be suspicious and defensive about it. You have no need to
be closed about a discussion. After all, isn't that what you
continually claim you look for, discussion ? Well, this is it. A
discussion. And to be frank about it, your ideas confuse me, from the
perspective of what ACIM teaches and the conclusions you draw and
promote. For ... years now ... not just today ... but ... for many
today's come and gone.

I can't impress upon you or anyone how I

see it. But I do accept there is ONLY one way to see the course,
and that is, the manner in which it is taught. Leading to truth.
Which is NOT variable. May I assume you see it differently, that
truth is VARIABLE ?

I have no idea what you are assuming. You are free to assume whatever
you want.

I told you what I'm assuming and then ask whether you agree or not.
Care to attempt an answer ?

Do you agree that one either understands the course, misunderstands
the course, or doesn't understand the course yet, or ever will. There
is no such option as UNDERSTANDING THE COURSE IN YOUR OWN WAY. It's
not a variable option. Do you believe it is ?

Post by Carrie
The real point of this seems to be why does it matter? Just live it
the way you believe it, and "let all things be exactly as they are".

How can one live anything with a false idea of what it is one is to
live by ?
We either live by the course or we do not. There is no wiggle room.
Unless
you happen to be one of the rare gifted highly evolved souls of
course. And
I don't get the feeling that's at play here , is it ?

I'm more concerned with, in THIS particular forum, what participants
say about the COURSE. And not about who is right or not. Such a
concept of right or not is , would you agree, not the ACIM way ?

Post by Carrie
Why does it really matter? Is what you write coming from love, and
joining and "Holy Spirit" or ego? Do you feel peaceful writing it

Oh yes ma'am I do. Very much so. What leads you to ask such a
question. Is something bothering you in what I write ?
Will you accept I am not searching for right or wrong ? Would you
accept I am discussing what ACIM teaches, not what I want. I know
what I want from an ACIM perspective. And it has nothing to do with
seeking any endorsement from anyone. What I want to know is in ACIM.
Would you agree with that statement ?

I want to participate. I don't WANT anything else.. I simply want
to be here for a while engaged in topics relating to ACIM.

JR

Carrie

2010-12-22 23:16:57 UTC

Post by John Radgosky
I'm trying to see if
you accept what ACIM teaches, or not.

I do accept it. Why would you have to "see" if I do or not? And what
do you base your being able to decide this (about me) on?

More like if YOU do accept ACIM and what it teaches, how can you question
or possible try and figure out (or "care") what I, or anyone else believes
or doesn't? The course is clear about it only relating to "me". I am the
one who looks out and sees proof of what I had already decided about
everything and "everyone else". Trying to figure out what I believe (about
the course, or anything) is, I think what the course calls "insanity".

Post by John Radgosky
So, I'm in conflict with what you say and what you claim. You claim
to accept what ACIM teaches and then say completely differently as if
you do not.
Once again, are you perhaps always speaking from the p.o.v. of the
WORLD, forgetting about the world of truth and spirit, and ignoring
what ACIM teaches simply to talk as if you were passing time in a
coffee clutch engaged in idle conversation ?

If this is what you believe the course teaches and that you are living
it (and coming from Right Mind/Spirit) that's all that matters. Who am *I*
just a projection from your mind.

Post by John Radgosky
And the reason I ask is, you have been writing in your way for YEARS
and have not changed your stance. You have been stubbornly attached
to the idea that truth is variable and a choice for each person to
make of it whatever he/she chooses. And so I wonder if , FROM AN ACIM
PERSPECTIVE, whether you are deluding yourself and, in the manner of
what and how you write, inadvertently misrepresent what the course
actully teaches.

What does this say about you still trying to make me into something
different?

What is that line "seek not to change the world (or anyone in it) but
change your mind about it"? Why is it so important to you that you see me
different and you have spent as many years trying to make ME different,
while still seeing me the same way.

Post by John Radgosky
There is something at stake you see. And that is, how is the course
teaching represented in dialogue ? Either it is understood and
portayed well, or it is not. And one never knows whom is listening,
and how ideas are passed.

Post by John Radgosky
Do you think that I WANT something ?

You seem to put so much time and energy into whatever this is. And, as
you say, you've been doing this (off and on) for years. With me and others.
Do you really think (if anyone is listening) YOU are an example of
what ACIM teaches? I mean, really, do you? Is arguing with someone about
ego beliefs and saying they stubbornly refuse to see them your way reflect
what the course teaches?

Post by Carrie
Your way of seeing something and believing it is right
and anyone who doesn't totally agree with it is wrong?

Do you think ACIM teaches to discern between right and wrong ? Do
you accept that within the frame of ACIM teaching there IS no such
thing. There is only real and unreal. Truth and not truth. Love and
Fear. . Do you agree that according to ACIM the idea of right and
wrong exists in the world, where ego operates. Do you think that
when I write here, in an ACIM forum, I am writing from the basis of
the world, or from the basis of what ACIM teaches about what is
real and what is not. ?

you can't be writing in words, and coming from ACIM and what it
teaches. You have to be coming from ego/form.
So, that's not a valid question.

But isn't ACIM written in words , scribed ,,,, in words ? If not,
explain yourself.

I don't have to explain myself to you, or anyone.

Post by Carrie
You seem to put so
much time and energy into trying to get others to see ACIM the way you do.

I'm asking how you see it.

And I have told you over and over for years (as you have pointed out).
You have deicded I should see it the way you do (which I don't even
understand, to me the course isn't about "anyone else" and what they seem to
be believing or doing) and you've been pounding away at this, every few
years, to get me to be whatever it is you think I should be and I'm not.
You can be right and I will be wrong. I don't care, it's not important to
me. It seems very important to you. Did God appoint you to follower me
around trying to save my soul?

Why does it matter to you how I see it?

It matters. Do you recall in ACIM the concept about the impact of
thought and words ?

Yes, one's OWN. Not and never "someone else's" It's all about "me" and
not anyone else.

Post by John Radgosky
All you are seeing is your

perception (based on projection) of what *I* am seeing.
Your take on it.

Not true. I don't know what you see.

I see what you believe I see. And, you don't seem to like what you see
me seeing, for some unknown reason.

So, I am asking. And you

Post by John Radgosky
continue to be suspicious and defensive about it. You have no need to
be closed about a discussion. After all, isn't that what you
continually claim you look for, discussion ? Well, this is it. A
discussion. And to be frank about it, your ideas confuse me, from the
perspective of what ACIM teaches and the conclusions you draw and
promote. For ... years now ... not just today ... but ... for many
today's come and gone.

Well, I don't understand what you want either. To me the course is self
study about "me" and not changing other people into something I think they
should or shouldn't be.

I can't impress upon you or anyone how I

Post by John Radgosky
see it. But I do accept there is ONLY one way to see the course,
and that is, the manner in which it is taught. Leading to truth.

So what is the point of all this?

Post by John Radgosky
Which is NOT variable. May I assume you see it differently, that
truth is VARIABLE ?

I don't think it's possible to DEFINE Truth, whatever it is, for
anyone else. And, I don't think we have to, or get anything out of trying.
So, why try.

I have no idea what you are assuming. You are free to assume whatever
you want.

I told you what I'm assuming and then ask whether you agree or not.
Care to attempt an answer ?

This is just going in circles. As it has before. I have told you how I
feel and what I believe and you don't want to hear it. You have something
you apparently want me to say, and I'm not saying it and you can't accept
that. Whatever you want me to believe is okay with me.
What I believe can't possibly have any effect on you, your life and what
you believe.

Why do you ask me something and then answer it yourself?

Post by John Radgosky
Do you agree or not , that there is ONLY one way to see truth ? Do
you agree or not that ACIM teaches truth ? Or do you instead chosse
to adhere that ACIM teaches that perception (how each sees it) is
the ojbective of the teaching ?

It might not be the objective of the teaching but it seems to be the
way it is. And if everyone accepted this, there wouldn't be any arguing over
it. The Peace of God is My One Goal is what the course says it's aim as. You
could choose to be peaceful with what you believe and how you see it and let
me (and everyone else) alone. Just allow...

Post by Carrie
The real point of this seems to be why does it matter? Just live it
the way you believe it, and "let all things be exactly as they are".

How can one live anything with a false idea of what it is one is to
live by ?

This is your idea that someone else's idea is false. There is nothing
real to base it on. It's judgement and you know what the course says about
that.

Post by John Radgosky
We either live by the course or we do not. There is no wiggle room.
Unless
you happen to be one of the rare gifted highly evolved souls of
course. And
I don't get the feeling that's at play here , is it ?

You have no idea what I am, or I am not. I am only what you
see/perceive me as.
A Teacher of God is anyone who chooses to be one. I have chosen this,
a few years ago. A personal commitment , choice. If you don't believe this
or see it, well make the choice yourself and you will. You would have to
drop this insane quest to change how you see other people, though.

Post by John Radgosky
That's ridiculous, regarding ACIM and it's purpose.
Even if one does not believe ACIM or adhere to its teaching, you are
proposing a free for all. And would you not agree that is a perfect
example of ego minded thinking ? Do you not agree that the course
teaches about how to CHANGE such thinking ?

I'm more concerned with, in THIS particular forum, what participants
say about the COURSE. And not about who is right or not. Such a
concept of right or not is , would you agree, not the ACIM way ?

Why, have you been elected the ACIM police?

Post by Carrie
Why does it really matter? Is what you write coming from love, and
joining and "Holy Spirit" or ego? Do you feel peaceful writing it

Oh yes ma'am I do. Very much so. What leads you to ask such a
question. Is something bothering you in what I write ?
Will you accept I am not searching for right or wrong ? Would you
accept I am discussing what ACIM teaches, not what I want. I know
what I want from an ACIM perspective. And it has nothing to do with
seeking any endorsement from anyone. What I want to know is in ACIM.
Would you agree with that statement ?

Sure.... whatever you said. If you are now happy and at peace.

I want to participate. I don't WANT anything else.. I simply want
to be here for a while engaged in topics relating to ACIM.

But, seems like all you have been doing is trying to find out what I
believe, and making it wrong.
Which I know, is my project and perception. I try and answer you
honestly and you won't accept it.

If you want to discuss ACIM discuss it, can you do it without
involving me, as a person?

Not that there aren't lessons in this, like everything. For me, it's
knowing when to give up.

Post by John Radgosky
JR

John Radgosky

2010-12-23 01:36:21 UTC

Do you really think (if anyone is listening) YOU are an example of
what ACIM teaches?

Yes. Absolutely. With flaws. And an intention to be even more
succesful than I have been so far with the course.

.

I mean, really, do you?

Yes, of course. No question about that. Although I would have
preferred your trust about that.

Is arguing with someone about
ego beliefs and saying they stubbornly refuse to see them your way reflect
what the course teaches?

Who's arguing ? I'm not. Unless you happen to mean arguing as in
presenting an opposing set of facts or information to arrive at a
settlement of some kind. However I suppose you mean arguing like in
stubbornly disagreeing. I assure you that is the last thing I would
want to do, waste my time doing that.

I'm simply expressing what I contend the course teaches. And if you
disagree, show me how, by
referencing what the course teaches that shows otherwise.

For example. You consistently say, truth is what you want it to be.
I say , ACIM teaches Truth is, and without variance. There is no
choice to make about truth. It just ... is.

So ... where am I misstating what the course teaches ? And where in
ACIM does it teach Truth has variety, is based on one's own idea about
it, and is whatever one wants it to be ? Exactly how does that
conform with the idea of ONE MIND ? Your concept perserves the whole
idea of split mind(s) ... letter s ... you'll find it being referenced
in ACIM.

No doubt this topic will not get resolved between us. So maybe it is
one gigantic circle leading to nowhere when attempting to do what you
say you want, to discuss.

JR

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-23 01:49:30 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

Do you really =A0think (if anyone is listening)
YOU are an ex=

ample of

what ACIM teaches?

Yes. Absolutely. With flaws. And an intention to be even more
succesful than I have been so far with the course.
.

mean, really, do you?

Yes, of course. No question about that. Although I would have
preferred your trust about that.

I told you Carrie: WARNING -------- GURU ALERT!

And he's a nasty piece of work.

People read books like the Bible and ACIM and listen to
people like John here wants to become (priests/gurus) and
here something that rings sympathetically with their
inner knowing and then make the mistake of thinking everything
from that particular source is True.

Some of what he says is Truth and some isn't. You have to
trust YOUR inner knowing to tell which is and which isn't.

What is true only if people believe it and what is True
regardless of what they believe about it, if anything.

[delete]

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

John Radgosky

2010-12-23 02:37:54 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

Do you really =A0think (if anyone is listening)
YOU are an ex=

ample of

what ACIM teaches?

Yes. Absolutely. With flaws. And an intention to be even more
succesful than I have been so far with the course.
.

mean, really, do you?

Yes, of course. No question about that. Although I would have
preferred your trust about that.

I told you Carrie: WARNING -------- GURU ALERT!
And he's a nasty piece of work.
People read books like the Bible and ACIM and listen to
people like John here wants to become (priests/gurus) and
here something that rings sympathetically with their
inner knowing and then make the mistake of thinking everything
from that particular source is True.
Some of what he says is Truth and some isn't. You have to
trust YOUR inner knowing to tell which is and which isn't.
What is true only if people believe it and what is True
regardless of what they believe about it, if anything.
[delete]
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Sid ... tsk, tsk. Warning .. ?

Really Sid.

The sky is in place and is not falling.

No guru'ing going on. Simply trading conversation. Not intending it
dips into anxious moments for anyone.

And a polite request ... I enjoy debate, the objective variety, and
there is no reason for being uncivil or lacking common courtesy by
resorting to personal slander such as "he's a nasty piece of work".
Not only is it untrue, unsupportable, and unneceseary, but it detracts
from effective debate.
Disagree, by all means. That's healthy and most welcome. But let's
keep it on the mature side of the spectrum.

Thanks

JR

Carrie

2010-12-23 02:39:22 UTC

Do you really think (if anyone is listening) YOU are an example of
what ACIM teaches?

Yes. Absolutely. With flaws. And an intention to be even more
succesful than I have been so far with the course.
.

I mean, really, do you?

Yes, of course. No question about that. Although I would have
preferred your trust about that.

Is arguing with someone about
ego beliefs and saying they stubbornly refuse to see them your way
reflect what the course teaches?

since it's all personal perception/interpretaion (individualize
curriculumn) all we would be showing is words. And you have your ideas about
it and I have mine. This is okay wth me, but doesn't seem to be with you.
You are a geat teacher. You are teaching me to know (sooner) when to
back off and stop trying to communicate. You aren't interested in what I
have to say, even about ACIM. You have your beliefs about it and to you that
is absolute. Which means that mine are same to me. Difference is I'm not
trying to push mine on you.

Post by John Radgosky
For example. You consistently say, truth is what you want it to be.
I say , ACIM teaches Truth is, and without variance. There is no
choice to make about truth. It just ... is.

Truth is what someone believes it is. Your truth is yours and mine is
mine. You read words in a book and perceive/interpret them in your mind.
That is YOUR truth/belief about them. I do the same. Others do the same.
It's kind of ego centered to believe that your truth (about the book) is how
it is, and anyone else's (which you would have no way of knowing anyway,
unless you could get into their mind and think like they do) isn't.

Post by John Radgosky
So ... where am I misstating what the course teaches ? And where in
ACIM does it teach Truth has variety, is based on one's own idea about
it, and is whatever one wants it to be ? Exactly how does that
conform with the idea of ONE MIND ? Your concept perserves the whole
idea of split mind(s) ... letter s ... you'll find it being referenced
in ACIM.

I'm not disagreeing with what the course says. I'm saying you perceive
it your way, others might, theirs. And what's wrong with that? It's just
words on pages in a book, or on a computer screen. Words are just words. I
give all and any meaning they have to them. As you do.

I have said you can be right, whatever you believe about ACIM (and me
and my beliefs) is fine.

Post by John Radgosky
No doubt this topic will not get resolved between us. So maybe it is
one gigantic circle leading to nowhere when attempting to do what you
say you want, to discuss.

You're the one who came here and brought it up again, and taking it in
circles. I'm just responding from the truth as I believe it.
If that your idea of a discussion? I don't think ACIM (itself the
words) CAN be discussed. Just experienced and lived (as best we can)

Post by John Radgosky
JR

John Radgosky

2010-12-23 03:25:56 UTC

Truth is what someone believes it is.

in the world of split mind(s) yes, that is correct. The course ,
not me, teaches there is one mind. Therefore,
on another level what you say cannot be. Not according to ACIM. And
so I accept your affirmation but
disagree with it from any level I can imagine. Especially that of
logic. So be it. It shouldn't lead to any unease
between us I hope.

Your truth is yours and mine is
mine.

Not in the realm of one mind, no, that cannot be. And plus, "yours"
and "mine" conflicts with the concept
of oneness, one mind. There is no "yours" or "mine" there and that is
where ACIM is leading to. Atonement.
At ...one....ment.

But in this world, yes, absolutely, that is how it works. Except, it
doesn't actually work, does it ?

You read words in a book and perceive/interpret them in your mind.

Depends on the book. Some books I have no option on. They are text
books in an academic setting and
are devices by which to learn a chosen field of endeavor. One does
not make up their own laws of biology
as best know by current research. One studies and takes exams to test
level of understanding.
One learns them until another breakthrough discovers something not yet
discovered.

So no. I totally disagree and I do not operate that way. Unless it's
entertainment value stuff. Then, maybe.

That is YOUR truth/belief about them. I do the same.
It's kind of ego centered to believe that your truth (about the book) is how
it is,

If I say, the book, ACIM, says this or that, on page that or the
other, it is the book saying it. And
that cannot be disputed. I do not attempt to "interpret" what is
written in ACIM. If there is something
I do not quite understand, I don't talk about it. Because my
understanding does not qualify me because
it lacks. So it is not ME saying anything here. I am simply stating
what the course teaches.

And it does not teach seperate minds, with seperate choice on what is
or is not Truth. There IS only
truth or nothing else.

For example ....

Eternal reality belongs only to the Soul, and the miracle acknowledges
only the truth. It thus
dispels man’s illusions about himself, and puts him in communion with
himself AND God.
( only the truth ...not, truth as you want it to be)

As a result, the doer’s perceptions are aligned with truth as God
created it. (not as anyone thinks it is)

This sense of separation would never have occurred if he had not
distorted his perception of truth, and thus perceived HIMSELF as
lacking. ( all perception is distortion, so truth is not up to what
you think it is)

Whenever projection is used inappropriately, it ALWAYS implies that
some emptiness or lack exists, and
that it is in man’s ability to put his OWN ideas there INSTEAD of
truth. ( not another truth, one. Not what anyone wants it to be,
but , what it is)

When the will is REALLY free, it CANNOT miscreate because it
recognizes ONLY truth ( not a variety on truth, as numerous as the
numbers of lives being led today so that everyone can create their own
version of truth. )

You cannot separate yourself from the truth by “giving” autonomy to
behavior. ( no autonomy, no choosing what you want your truth to be)

The Holy Spirit must work through opposites because He must work with
and for a mind that IS in opposition. Correct and
learn, and be open to learning. You have NOT made truth, but truth can
still set you free ( truth is NOT variable and a matter of choosing
what you want it to be. It simply IS.)

the Holy Spirit teaches you that truth was created by God, and YOUR
decision CANNOT change it

There are pages and pages of further reference on the subject but
there is no reason to cite any further what the course says.
And, in case there is any thought about it, I take the course
literally. I do not seek to interpret anything written there.

So, I'm not trying to prove a point. I'm simply attempting to show
what the course has to say on the topic of truth. And nowhere have I
ever found any wiggle room that whatever truth is for you, then it's
truth. That's just incosistent with ACIM teaching.

If you can show me otherwise, please do. And I will say no more about
it. I have exhausted this topic to a place where there is no further
to go on it.

I can only hope that in some way this conversation might have been
helpful. It has, for me. But not in the manner I expected.

Peace

JR

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-23 03:55:19 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

Post by Carrie
Truth is what someone believes it is.

in the world of split mind(s) yes, that is correct. The course
, not me, teaches there is one mind. Therefore, on another
level what you say cannot be. Not according to ACIM. And so I
accept your affirmation but disagree with it from any level I
can imagine. Especially that of logic. So be it. It shouldn't
lead to any unease between us I hope.

Post by Carrie
Your truth is yours and mine is mine.

Both are True. We are Individuals and we are One. That is,
we are part of the One, which would be the Individual called
the Human Race. All beings are a part of each other AND all
beings are individuals.

My town is itself, an Individual town. And it is ALSO a part
of the county it's in.

Nor does it stop there. the county is a part of the state.
The Indivual is a part of the Race is a part of the Over-Mind
(or whatever you want to call it. Names are just labels.)

See? You claim to be removing boundaries and you are really
just creating a new set.

But in this world, yes, absolutely, that is how it works.
Except, it doesn't actually work, does it ?

Yes. It does. We are magickal beings who have done an incredible
job of creating a world in which magick does not seem to exist.

[delete about a hundred lines]

That's too much. Purveyors of Truth use few words. Liars
and con artists (priests and gurus) who are trying to
reprogam you to suit themselves use a lot of words.
With their attendant images and emotions.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

John Radgosky

2010-12-23 04:05:59 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

Post by Carrie
Truth is what someone believes it is.

in the world of split mind(s) yes, that is correct. The course
, not me, teaches there is one mind. Therefore, on another
level what you say cannot be. Not according to ACIM. And so I
accept your affirmation but disagree with it from any level I
can imagine. Especially that of logic. So be it. It shouldn't
lead to any unease between us I hope.

Post by Carrie
Your truth is yours and mine is mine.

Both are True. We are Individuals and we are One. That is,
we are part of the One, which would be the Individual called
the Human Race. All beings are a part of each other AND all
beings are individuals.
My town is itself, an Individual town. And it is ALSO a part
of the county it's in.
Nor does it stop there. the county is a part of the state.
The Indivual is a part of the Race is a part of the Over-Mind
(or whatever you want to call it. Names are just labels.)
See? You claim to be removing boundaries and you are really
just creating a new set.

But in this world, yes, absolutely, that is how it works.
Except, it doesn't actually work, does it ?

Yes. It does. We are magickal beings who have done an incredible
job of creating a world in which magick does not seem to exist.
[delete about a hundred lines]
That's too much. Purveyors of Truth use few words. Liars
and con artists (priests and gurus) who are trying to
reprogam you to suit themselves use a lot of words.
With their attendant images and emotions.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Sid,

I agree , just as a drop is the ocean.

But from ACIM perspective there is one mind, not separate minds.
Oneness. At that level. We have not yet evolved with some
individual exceptions to the contrary , to the point of
enlightenment to the source.

And as for the part about what does or does not work, there is
insanity and it is almost universal.

In our wonderful and magickal world we have wars all around the
planet, disease, loss of life by murder,
greed, and other examples of mass suffering on a terrific scale. And
in abundance right in that town of yours.
And mine.

And, it is all unnecessary. (idealistic? Some would argue not ).

It would not likely be helpful if you were to approach the homeless
man in the street who is lacking food and shelter and a sane mind, and
tell him it's all good.

There is some relativity in our existence. But not where ACIM is
attempting to lead. Returning to the ultimate truth of who we are.

Just my thoughts, not saying I know it all....

Thanks.

JR.

Carrie

2010-12-23 04:40:10 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

Post by Carrie
Truth is what someone believes it is.

in the world of split mind(s) yes, that is correct. The course
, not me, teaches there is one mind. Therefore, on another
level what you say cannot be. Not according to ACIM. And so I
accept your affirmation but disagree with it from any level I
can imagine. Especially that of logic. So be it. It shouldn't
lead to any unease between us I hope.

Post by Carrie
Your truth is yours and mine is mine.

Both are True. We are Individuals and we are One. That is,
we are part of the One, which would be the Individual called
the Human Race. All beings are a part of each other AND all
beings are individuals.
My town is itself, an Individual town. And it is ALSO a part
of the county it's in.
Nor does it stop there. the county is a part of the state.
The Indivual is a part of the Race is a part of the Over-Mind
(or whatever you want to call it. Names are just labels.)
See? You claim to be removing boundaries and you are really
just creating a new set.

But in this world, yes, absolutely, that is how it works.
Except, it doesn't actually work, does it ?

Yes. It does. We are magickal beings who have done an incredible
job of creating a world in which magick does not seem to exist.
[delete about a hundred lines]
That's too much. Purveyors of Truth use few words. Liars
and con artists (priests and gurus) who are trying to
reprogam you to suit themselves use a lot of words.
With their attendant images and emotions.
Sid
--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocencehttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Sid,
I agree , just as a drop is the ocean.
But from ACIM perspective there is one mind, not separate minds.
Oneness. At that level. We have not yet evolved with some
individual exceptions to the contrary , to the point of
enlightenment to the source.
And as for the part about what does or does not work, there is
insanity and it is almost universal.
In our wonderful and magickal world we have wars all around the
planet, disease, loss of life by murder,
greed, and other examples of mass suffering on a terrific scale. And
in abundance right in that town of yours.
And mine.
And, it is all unnecessary. (idealistic? Some would argue not ).
It would not likely be helpful if you were to approach the homeless
man in the street who is lacking food and shelter and a sane mind, and
tell him it's all good.
There is some relativity in our existence. But not where ACIM is
attempting to lead. Returning to the ultimate truth of who we are.
Just my thoughts, not saying I know it all....

ACIM is abstract. It's written in form but can only be experienced in
content. Of course, it says there is only One of us and The Truth is True,
but there is no way to comprehend this (only experience it) with ego mind,
in form (thinking and words). Which is personal perception. And no one
person's personal perception of something (which really can't be defined
anyway) is "right" and everyone else has to agree with it, or be wrong.
IMHO of course...

Post by John Radgosky
Thanks.
JR.

Carrie

2010-12-23 04:37:24 UTC

Post by Carrie
Truth is what someone believes it is.

Post by Carrie
Your truth is yours and mine is
mine.

Not in the realm of one mind, no, that cannot be. And plus, "yours"
and "mine" conflicts with the concept
of oneness, one mind. There is no "yours" or "mine" there and that is
where ACIM is leading to. Atonement.
At ...one....ment.
But in this world, yes, absolutely, that is how it works. Except, it
doesn't actually work, does it ?

Post by Carrie
You read words in a book and perceive/interpret them in your mind.

Depends on the book. Some books I have no option on. They are text
books in an academic setting and
are devices by which to learn a chosen field of endeavor. One does
not make up their own laws of biology
as best know by current research. One studies and takes exams to test
level of understanding.
One learns them until another breakthrough discovers something not yet
discovered.
So no. I totally disagree and I do not operate that way. Unless it's
entertainment value stuff. Then, maybe.

Post by Carrie
That is YOUR truth/belief about them. I do the same.
It's kind of ego centered to believe that your truth (about the
book) is how it is,

If I say, the book, ACIM, says this or that, on page that or the
other, it is the book saying it. And
that cannot be disputed. I do not attempt to "interpret" what is
written in ACIM. If there is something
I do not quite understand, I don't talk about it. Because my
understanding does not qualify me because
it lacks. So it is not ME saying anything here. I am simply stating
what the course teaches.
And it does not teach seperate minds, with seperate choice on what is
or is not Truth. There IS only
truth or nothing else.
For example ....
Eternal reality belongs only to the Soul, and the miracle acknowledges
only the truth. It thus
dispels mans illusions about himself, and puts him in communion with
himself AND God.
( only the truth ...not, truth as you want it to be)
As a result, the doers perceptions are aligned with truth as God
created it. (not as anyone thinks it is)
This sense of separation would never have occurred if he had not
distorted his perception of truth, and thus perceived HIMSELF as
lacking. ( all perception is distortion, so truth is not up to what
you think it is)
Whenever projection is used inappropriately, it ALWAYS implies that
some emptiness or lack exists, and
that it is in mans ability to put his OWN ideas there INSTEAD of
truth. ( not another truth, one. Not what anyone wants it to be,
but , what it is)
When the will is REALLY free, it CANNOT miscreate because it
recognizes ONLY truth ( not a variety on truth, as numerous as the
numbers of lives being led today so that everyone can create their own
version of truth. )
You cannot separate yourself from the truth by giving autonomy to
behavior. ( no autonomy, no choosing what you want your truth to be)
The Holy Spirit must work through opposites because He must work with
and for a mind that IS in opposition. Correct and
learn, and be open to learning. You have NOT made truth, but truth can
still set you free ( truth is NOT variable and a matter of choosing
what you want it to be. It simply IS.)
the Holy Spirit teaches you that truth was created by God, and YOUR
decision CANNOT change it
There are pages and pages of further reference on the subject but
there is no reason to cite any further what the course says.
And, in case there is any thought about it, I take the course
literally. I do not seek to interpret anything written there.
So, I'm not trying to prove a point. I'm simply attempting to show
what the course has to say on the topic of truth. And nowhere have I
ever found any wiggle room that whatever truth is for you, then it's
truth. That's just incosistent with ACIM teaching.
If you can show me otherwise, please do. And I will say no more about
it. I have exhausted this topic to a place where there is no further
to go on it.
I can only hope that in some way this conversation might have been
helpful. It has, for me. But not in the manner I expected.

It's frustrating because you keep totally missing the point.
But, the point is still part of the ego world of illusion, we are
choosing to be part of. The ACIM book(s) are, too.
So no harm done.

Post by John Radgosky
Peace
JR

John Radgosky

2010-12-23 03:54:34 UTC

Carrie,

Unfortunately it looks like the author does not quite agree with you.

Helen scribed the opening lines which say, " Free will does not mean
that you can establish the curriculum."

There is no such thing as an "individualized curriculum" in A Course
In Miracles.

Perhaps you meant something else ?

JR

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-23 04:12:38 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

=A0 =A0since it's all personal perception/interpretaion
(individualize curriculumn) all we would be showing is words.
And you have your ideas about it and I have mine. This is okay
wth me, but doesn't seem to be with you.

Carrie,
Unfortunately it looks like the author does not quite agree
with you.
Helen scribed the opening lines which say, " Free will does not
mean that you can establish the curriculum."
There is no such thing as an "individualized curriculum" in A
Course In Miracles.
Perhaps you meant something else ?
JR

That's wrong. An Individual, by definition; by Nature, Individualizes,
customizes, everything. You Make Your Own Reality is literal.

With any learning regimen where the student starts and what order
they take the modules in depends on what they know already and
who they are by Nature. HOW they learn will be Individual.

Carrie, a real Teacher of Magick is interested in bringing you
up to their level and words alone are never enough for that.
You have to do the work.

A real TOM would be suggesting exercises of various kinds for
you to use to validate or invalidate her/his words. They do
not charge for their services. Your time for their time.

A Priest-Guru seeks to make you dependent on them, and they
usually disguise that goal behind a mask of TOM.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Carrie

2010-12-23 04:46:39 UTC

Post by Carrie
since it's all personal perception/interpretaion (individualize
curriculumn) all we would be showing is words. And you have your
ideas about it and I have mine. This is okay wth me, but doesn't
seem to be with you.

Carrie,
Unfortunately it looks like the author does not quite agree with you.
Helen scribed the opening lines which say, " Free will does not mean
that you can establish the curriculum."
There is no such thing as an "individualized curriculum" in A Course
In Miracles.
Perhaps you meant something else ?

Perhaps you are unable to grasp it...

Post by Sidney Lambe
There is no such thing as an "individualized curriculum" in A Course
In Miracles.

As to individualized curriculumn (aside from it saying if there are
questions to ask one's Inner Teacher)

"There is, however, no set pattern, since training is always highly
individualized".

9. ARE CHANGES REQUIRED IN THE LIFE SITUATION OF GOD'S TEACHERS?

M-9.1. Changes are required in the <minds> of God's teachers. 2 This may or
may not involve changes in the external situation. 3 Remember that no one is
where he is by accident, and chance plays no part in God's plan. 4 It is
most unlikely that changes in attitudes would not be the first step in the
newly made teacher of God's training. 5 There is, however, no set pattern,
since training is always highly individualized. 6 There are those who are
called upon to change their life situation almost immediately, but these are
generally special cases. 7 By far the majority are given a slowly evolving
training program, in which as many previous mistakes as possible are
corrected. 8 Relationships in particular must be properly perceived, and all
dark cornerstones of unforgiveness removed. 9 Otherwise the old thought
system still has a basis for return.

----------------------------

6 The curriculum is highly individualized, and all aspects are under the
Holy Spirit's particular care and guidance. 7 Ask and He will answer. 8 The
responsibility is His, and He alone is fit to assume it. 9 To do so is His
function. 10 To refer the questions to Him is yours. 11 Would you want to be
responsible for decisions about which you understand so little? 12 Be glad
you have a Teacher Who cannot make a mistake. 13 His answers are always
right. 14 Would you say that of yours?
----------------------------------------------------------

Post by Sidney Lambe
JR

John Radgosky

2010-12-23 05:58:52 UTC

Carrie,
Unfortunately it looks like the author does not quite agree with you.
Helen scribed the opening lines which say, " Free will does not mean
that you can establish the curriculum."
There is no such thing as an "individualized curriculum" in A Course
In Miracles.
Perhaps you meant something else ?

Perhaps you are unable to grasp it...

Post by Sidney Lambe
There is no such thing as an "individualized curriculum" in A Course
In Miracles.

As to individualized curriculumn (aside from it saying if there are
questions to ask one's Inner Teacher)
"There is, however, no set pattern, since training is always highly
individualized".
9. ARE CHANGES REQUIRED IN THE LIFE SITUATION OF GOD'S TEACHERS?
M-9.1. Changes are required in the <minds> of God's teachers. 2 This may or
may not involve changes in the external situation. 3 Remember that no one is
where he is by accident, and chance plays no part in God's plan. 4 It is
most unlikely that changes in attitudes would not be the first step in the
newly made teacher of God's training. 5 There is, however, no set pattern,
since training is always highly individualized. 6 There are those who are
called upon to change their life situation almost immediately, but these are
generally special cases. 7 By far the majority are given a slowly evolving
training program, in which as many previous mistakes as possible are
corrected. 8 Relationships in particular must be properly perceived, and all
dark cornerstones of unforgiveness removed. 9 Otherwise the old thought
system still has a basis for return.
----------------------------
6 The curriculum is highly individualized, and all aspects are under the
Holy Spirit's particular care and guidance. 7 Ask and He will answer. 8 The
responsibility is His, and He alone is fit to assume it. 9 To do so is His
function. 10 To refer the questions to Him is yours. 11 Would you want to be
responsible for decisions about which you understand so little? 12 Be glad
you have a Teacher Who cannot make a mistake. 13 His answers are always
right. 14 Would you say that of yours?
----------------------------------------------------------

sure, and ALL aspects are under the care of Holy Spirit ... so the
individualized curriculum is NOT what ever anyone wants to make of
it. Nor are the concepts whether abstract or not.

JR

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-23 06:36:57 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky
[delete]

Post by Carrie
6 The curriculum is highly individualized, and all aspects are under the
Holy Spirit's particular care and guidance. 7 Ask and He will answer. 8 T=

Post by Carrie
responsibility is His, and He alone is fit to assume it. 9 To do so is Hi=

Post by Carrie
function. 10 To refer the questions to Him is yours. 11 Would you want to=

Post by Carrie
responsible for decisions about which you understand so little? 12 Be gla=

Post by Carrie
you have a Teacher Who cannot make a mistake. 13 His answers are always
right. 14 Would you say that of yours?
----------------------------------------------------------

The teacher is your own inner self. Or one of an infinite number
of multi-dimensional teachers found in a 'state of consciousness'
where lies cannot exist.

Post by John Radgosky
sure, and ALL aspects are under the care of Holy Spirit ... so the
individualized curriculum is NOT what ever anyone wants to make of
it. Nor are the concepts whether abstract or not.
JR

Carrie nailed you. Accept defeat gracefully.
Or start the course over from the beginning.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Carrie

2010-12-23 14:03:58 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky
[delete]

Post by Carrie
6 The curriculum is highly individualized, and all aspects are
under the Holy Spirit's particular care and guidance. 7 Ask and He
will answer. 8 T= he responsibility is His, and He alone is fit to
assume it. 9 To do so is Hi= s function. 10 To refer the questions
to Him is yours. 11 Would you want to=

Post by Carrie
responsible for decisions about which you understand so little? 12
Be gla= d you have a Teacher Who cannot make a mistake. 13 His
answers are always right. 14 Would you say that of yours?
----------------------------------------------------------

The teacher is your own inner self. Or one of an infinite number
of multi-dimensional teachers found in a 'state of consciousness'
where lies cannot exist.

Well said

Carrie nailed you. Accept defeat gracefully.
Or start the course over from the beginning.

I didn't intend to "nail" anyone (this isn't a chess game, which is
good because I am not good at chess and find board games boring)
Just a fine point, that it does say "individualized curriculum" and
after the first year (one year!) of doing the workbook lessons, there are no
more specific lessons required. (yet some "do the workbook" over and over
and push this on others) "lessons not yet mastered will be presented in
different form" (i.e. on this newsgroup (LOL) And if we have any questions,
to ask one's "Inner Teacher". If one has an "Inner Teacher" to ask, this
indicates that there is an Individualized Curriculum within the context of
the overall.
The fine point I try and make, and keeps getting missed, is "the
Truth is True" RIGHT. But, everyone reading the book, listening to the words
and trying to define and explain this to someone else is still filtering it
through their own personal perception- interpretation of it, and what they
think it means. Which I don't think can be then put back into words to tell
someone else "what it really means". (I have seen some write "what Jesus
REALLY meant....")
There is a course related book "Jouney Beyond Words" by Brent Haskell that
says something like this... like you are not asked to learn the course in a
way that you can then explain it to others (like they can't understand it,
and experience it and know it on their own) it's very personal. The
problems seem to ome about when one person tries to explain it (what Jesus
REALLY means) to someone else.
I believe it can only be applied to oneself and then lived (as best one
can) and the point of doing this is our own peace and well being.
And I am not saying I always have and do this, myself. I never want to
come across as telling someone else what they should or shouldn't do (or
think, feel and believe) and especially wouldn't want to, if I, myself
wasn't living it totally. And if I was living it totally, I woud have no
need to tell anyone else how they should or shouldn't be or do.
It's kind of like that president (FDR or Truman?) who had a plaque on
his desk "The buck stops here".
I am responsible for what I see, and feel and my own thinking and
life.
If I am not responsible for me, who is, and why do I let them be?

John Radgosky

2010-12-23 15:38:50 UTC

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky
[delete]

The teacher is your own inner self. Or one of an infinite number
of multi-dimensional teachers found in a 'state of consciousness'
where lies cannot exist.

Well said

sure, and ALL aspects are under the care of Holy Spirit ... so the
individualized curriculum is NOT what ever anyone wants to make of
it. Nor are the concepts whether abstract or not.
JR

Carrie nailed you. Accept defeat gracefully.
Or start the course over from the beginning.

Post by Sidney Lambe
Sid- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This is agree with .. and now have a better understanding of your
pov .. and, I appreciate it.

JR

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-23 17:59:46 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Sidney Lambe
On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky
[delete]

Post by Carrie
6 The curriculum is highly individualized, and all aspects
are under the Holy Spirit's particular care and guidance. 7
Ask and He will answer. 8 T= he responsibility is His, and
He alone is fit to assume it. 9 To do so is Hi= s function.
10 To refer the questions to Him is yours. 11 Would you want
to=

Post by Carrie
responsible for decisions about which you understand
so little? 12 Be gla= d you have a Teacher
Who cannot make a mistake. 13 His answers are
always right. 14 Would you say that of yours?
----------------------------------------------------------

The teacher is your own inner self. Or one of an infinite
number of multi-dimensional teachers found in a 'state of
consciousness' where lies cannot exist.

Well said

Post by John Radgosky
sure, and ALL aspects are under the care of Holy Spirit ...
so the individualized curriculum is NOT what ever anyone
wants to make of it. Nor are the concepts whether abstract or
not.
JR

Carrie nailed you. Accept defeat gracefully. Or start the
course over from the beginning.

I didn't intend to "nail" anyone (this isn't a chess
game, which is good because I am not good at chess and find
board games boring)

"Nail" is a chess term? I'm not a player myself, for many
years, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong here.

"Nail", at least for me, means to pin some one down
with fact.

Post by Carrie
Just a fine point, that it does say
"individualized curriculum" and after the first year (one
year!) of doing the workbook lessons, there are no more
specific lessons required. (yet some "do the workbook" over and
over and push this on others) "lessons not yet mastered will
be presented in different form" (i.e. on this newsgroup (LOL)
And if we have any questions, to ask one's "Inner Teacher".
If one has an "Inner Teacher" to ask, this indicates that
there is an Individualized Curriculum within the context of
the overall. The fine point I try and make, and keeps getting
missed, is "the Truth is True" RIGHT. But, everyone reading the
book, listening to the words and trying to define and explain
this to someone else is still filtering it through their own
personal perception- interpretation of it, and what they think
it means.
Which I don't think can be then put back into words
to tell someone else "what it really means". (I have seen some
write "what Jesus REALLY meant....")

Then you are wrong.

God I am getting tired of saying this.

Post by Carrie
There is a course related book "Jouney Beyond Words" by Brent
Haskell that says something like this... like you are not asked
to learn the course in a way that you can then explain it to
others (like they can't understand it, and experience it and
know it on their own) it's very personal.

What utter crap.

Post by Carrie
The problems seem to ome about when one person tries to explain
it (what Jesus REALLY means) to someone else. I believe it can
only be applied to oneself and then lived (as best one can)
and the point of doing this is our own peace and well being.

For the 10th time.: That's garbage, Carrie.

If that were true there would no point in producing ACIM at all.

All the Truth that we need to know at this point in our
development can be expressed in words.

Like "you make your own reality with the nature of your beliefs".

Now I've deleted the balance of this because you are obviously
just going to repeat the same Un-truths yet _again_.

(In your desperate attempts to cling to false beliefs you are
addicted to...Hardly an uncommon thing.

[delete]

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Deborah

2010-12-23 19:11:02 UTC

On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 09:03:58 -0500, "Carrie"

Post by Carrie
Just a fine point, that it does say "individualized curriculum"

From the Introduction:

"Free will does not mean that you can establish the curriculum. It
means only that you can elect what you want to take at a given time."

Deborah

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-23 19:30:23 UTC

Post by Deborah
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 09:03:58 -0500, "Carrie"

Post by Carrie
Just a fine point, that it does say "individualized
curriculum"

"Free will does not mean that you can establish the curriculum.
It means only that you can elect what you want to take at a
given time."

"Free Will" means you can do any dam thing you want,

Including ignoring ACIM and choosing another path to
enlightenment. Which is obviously what the overwhelming majority
of people choose to do.

ACIM is only one version of "the curriculum".

The Truth simply is. It is there for all to see at will.
ACIM has no corner on it. It did not create it. It does
not own it.

No Christian symbology is needed at all. The word 'Jesus'
need never be heard by anyone.

Post by Deborah
Deborah

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

Carrie

2010-12-23 20:46:40 UTC

Post by Deborah
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 09:03:58 -0500, "Carrie"

Post by Carrie
Just a fine point, that it does say "individualized curriculum"

"Free will does not mean that you can establish the curriculum. It
means only that you can elect what you want to take at a given time."
Deborah

But, it says it's an individualized curriculumn, and can be learned in
many ways (words, no words) and each of us is to ask (if we have any
questions) our "Inner Teacher".
Back to personal perception and interpretation again. One person's
(perception and interpretation and putting it into form in their own way,
the way they believe it) isn't right and someone else's not right. We have
seen so much of that, just on this ng. One person saying "no, that's not
what the course says!" and trying to explain their "take" on it (in form)
Which is all it is, their take. Not saying the words aren't there, but each
person "processes" them their own way, through their own mind-senses.
A fine point, and seems like someone as intelligent as you seem to be
would understand it.
But, if you don't, no big deal,. It's just a concept and not worth
arguing over.

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-23 21:06:07 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, Carrie

Post by Deborah
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 09:03:58 -0500, "Carrie"

Post by Carrie
Just a fine point, that it does say "individualized
curriculum"

"Free will does not mean that you can establish the
curriculum. It means only that you can elect what you want to
take at a given time."
Deborah

But, it says it's an individualized curriculumn, and can be
learned in many ways (words, no words) and each of us is to
ask (if we have any questions) our "Inner Teacher". Back to
personal perception and interpretation again. One person's
(perception and interpretation and putting it into form in
their own way, the way they believe it) isn't right and someone
else's not right. We have seen so much of that, just on this
ng. One person saying "no, that's not what the course says!"
and trying to explain their "take" on it (in form) Which is
all it is, their take. Not saying the words aren't there, but
each person "processes" them their own way, through their
own mind-senses. A fine point, and seems like someone as
intelligent as you seem to be would understand it. But, if you
don't, no big deal,. It's just a concept and not worth arguing
over.

Meow

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
usenet4444 (AT) gmail (DOT) com

John Radgosky

2010-12-23 21:50:11 UTC

Post by Deborah
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 09:03:58 -0500, "Carrie"

Just a fine point, that it does say "individualized curriculum"

"Free will does not mean that you can establish the curriculum. It
means only that you can elect what you want to take at a given time."
Deborah

Carrie,

It would be most helpful if you were to say WHERE in the course it
says that.

Yesterday you refrenced a quote from the Manual. But I don't have a
copy of the Manual so I can't read the full context or research in
it.

And what you referred to yesterday is not expressly said because it
has some conditions associated with , notably, who's in control.
Which is, Holy Spirit. So therer is some careful reading to fully
appreciate what is being communicated. Although the tone of it is
certainly
in that direction.

JR

Sidney Lambe

2010-12-23 22:04:47 UTC

On talk.religion.course-miracle, John Radgosky

Post by Deborah
On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 09:03:58 -0500, "Carrie"

=A0Just a fine point, that it does say "individualized
curriculum"

"Free will does not mean that you can establish the
curriculum. =A0It means only that you can elect what you
want to take at a given time."
Deborah

=A0 But, it says it's an individualized curriculumn, and can
be learned in many ways (words, no words) and each of us is
to ask (if we have any questions) our "Inner Teacher". =A0
Back to personal perception and interpretation again. One
person's (perception and interpretation and putting it into
form in their own way, the way they believe it) isn't right
and someone else's not right. We hav=

seen so much of that, just on this ng. One person saying "no,
that's not what the course says!" and trying to explain their
"take" on it (in form) Which is all it is, their take. Not
saying the words aren't there, but ea=

person "processes" them their own way, through their own
mind-senses. =A0 =A0A fine point, and seems like someone as
intelligent as you seem to=

would understand it. =A0 =A0 But, if you don't, no big deal,.
It's just a concept and not worth arguing over.

Carrie,
It would be most helpful if you were to say WHERE in the course
it says that.

ACIM is hardly the only source of valid information about the
true nature of reality.

So the question is just another bid for control.

Post by Sidney Lambe
Yesterday you refrenced a quote from the Manual. But I don't
have a copy of the Manual so I can't read the full context or
research in it.

So what?

And how can you presume superiority over Carrie in matters ACIM
if you don't even have a copy of the Manual? I'll bet I could
find one on-line in less than a minute.

Post by Sidney Lambe
And what you referred to yesterday is not expressly said
because it has some conditions associated with , notably,
who's in control. Which is, Holy Spirit. So therer is some
careful reading to fully appreciate what is being communicated.
Although the tone of it is certainly in that direction.
JR

He is assuming that you value his approval. Another bid
for control.

Sid

--
I am a Magickal Being
My Second Spell is Innocence
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Carrie

2010-12-24 00:54:28 UTC